[oldman]

An enthusiast should really only be concerned with the performance of one vehicle... Their own. Is it fun info to read what one offers vs another? Yeah. Does it mean that one is stuck with those reported metrics? No. These reviews provide entertaining tidbits about performance specs, measurements, reviewer pov's, etc. But they don't hard lock in what these types, or any type of vehicle for that matter, can do, just what they did that day, it that particular guise.

Some will forever perform at a level lower than that of testers, some will vastly exceed it. Those happy with their vehicle won't really care, as long as they enjoy their vehicle. If any if them happen to be disappointed in any part of, or the whole of, their choice, they can change it.

At the end of the day, when John Q. Public pulls up to the line, they're probably not driving the Camaro/Mustang/Challenger that clocked the best 1/4 "hero run" they're also probably not driving the one that ran the worst fail time.

They're driving their vehicle. The one that will perform as well as they desire and/or can afford to make it. Magazine racing doesn't mean a thing once the green light shines, you run what you brung, and you chalk up a W or an L. Then you adjust and see if you can improve... If you want to.

I think that is pretty fair. But you gotta admit, for a base GT 18, it is less then expected and for shame I John Q. has to plop down $3600 to $8500 more to actually perform. Good god man, that is crazy pricing. Not to mention that with 100 wear tires you going to be out $1500 every year on new tires. Drive the ride 10 years, that for me is 15k which would need two sets a year, that would be 30 grand in tires. OMG!

Other than IMO pitful tires on the base GT, and the ream me the expense of the PP, I see nothing wrong with the new Mustang. But it ain't my money. You can see why Chevy guys are scratching their head and saying gee for $50K, at that point you may look for a ZL1... I rolled my SS for 32K out the door after my GM credit card of forget now $3500 and higer education pricing special, etc.

http://www.motortrend.com/news/2018-...t-look-review/

edit sports cup 2 have a 180 rear, not great but better than I remember.

[oldman]

Originally Posted by germanicus

Now we have seen examples of stock GT's in the 11's, yet they don't count (because......?) The best comeback to this waters down to "But they won't beat my ZL1?"

BTW, who is 'they'? Try not to speak for other people as much, and then apply that brush to an entire community.

As I see it, the entirety of this came about because it was pointed out that an 18 GT with an e85 tune and wheel/tire swap was putting up times that were faster than stock zl1 numbers. Not sure how this is controversial or earth shattering. Either the car did or did not run those numbers. If it did, why get so bent out of shape about it? How does that effect your enjoyment of your vehicle? The only way I see this as being so upsetting is if its important to you that you are perceived as having the fastest vehicle by total strangers to you. When I drive down the street, I don't care whether people think my car is faster than theirs or not. Its not something I lose sleep over, or become enraged about on an internet forum. I doubt that the VAST majority of either Mustang or Camaro owners give a hill of beans about this.

Even if there are people claiming (unreasonable?) results/metrics for a given vehicle, I think its sort of silly to define an entire car community by that.

Just as it would be silly for me to define all the Zl1 drivers here as immature idiots who brag about street racing Mclarens while he/she has their family in the car.

Lets make this not about selectively accepting results that fall in line with one's desired outcomes (my Car is better than your Car). Look up the term "Confirmation bias". Rather, instead of choosing to ignore results that contradict one's expectations (using specious excuses), take them as they reveal themselves.

In my opinion, classifying the GT as under-performing is sort of ridiculous. The 15-17 GT had the highest HP per dollar value of any sports/muscle production car sold at the time anywhere in the world. https://cars.usnews.com/cars-trucks/...wer-per-dollar. When you consider the only real metric that matters to carmakers (Sales), the mustang is not the under-performing pony car. It was the best selling sports car in the world last year.

Less Tribalism. Us vs. Them.
This is becoming worse than some college sports rivalries.

Marvel vs. DC.
Cowboys vs. Redskins.
Camaro vs. Mustang.
Coke vs. Pepsi.

I think this was very even-handed. IMO, I should hope that a well driven 50K Mustang with bolt-ons and tires can with hero driver at a prep track and good air can compete with Joe Normal and a stock ZL1. You are rapidly getting to the price point of "slam fist into head" I should have got a ZL1.

The more likely scenario is street fight 18 GT base model vs ZL1 stock and given any reasonable driver skill it is a complete whip out. A 18 GT auto with PP1 vs an auto Zl1 with just be a complete blowout. The manual only PP2 GT will have a hard time against ANY SS. Any non-PP Mustang is going to have REAL problems aganints any SS. That is the 99%. For the magazine writers to even pretend otherwise is near insane.

I would speculate right now if GM wanted a cheap PP, they could make a strippo ZL1: LT4, plain LSD diff in the 10.9" housing, standard shocks and brakes, standard SS base electronics and interior (note Ford MAKES you buy the upgraded gee wiz interior package for PP2), stock SS front rims, stock not even rear spoiler exterior, Zl1 spec rear wheel all for 52K list.

[germanicus]

Originally Posted by oldman

I think this was very even-handed. IMO, I should hope that a well driven 50K Mustang with bolt-ons and tires can with hero driver at a prep track and good air can compete with Joe Normal and a stock ZL1. You are rapidly getting to the price point of "slam fist into head" I should have got a ZL1.

The more likely scenario is street fight 18 GT base model vs ZL1 stock and given any reasonable driver skill it is a complete whip out. A 18 GT auto with PP two vs an auto Zl1 with just be a completeblowout. That is the 99%. For the magazine writers to even pretend otherwise is near insane.

I would speculate right now if GM wanted a cheap PP, they could make a strippo ZL1: LT4, plain LSD diff in the 10.9" housing, standard shocks and brakes, standard SS base electronics and interior (note Ford MAKES you buy the upgraded gee wiz interior package for PP2), stock SS front rims, Zl1 spec rear all for 55K list.

We are comparing cars that have a 190hp deficit between them. Its silly.
For a 50+k mustang, I think its more likely the owner slams fist into head for not getting the gt350.

In regards to your comment, I think a likely scenario is not a base 18 GT vs a ZL1, but GT vs SS. How many zl1's are sold compared to GT's?

If we get into the realm of "I have zl1 money to play with" One can get a 17 Base GT with PP for 32k out the door (or LESS), plop a 3rd gen whipple on it, replace the OPG and half shafts and put a set of DR's on it. You are WAY under 50 grand still (45ish), and have a car that will put down over 700+hp, quite possibly significantly more.

Sure, some guys just want it from the factory, others don't mind wrenching.

[13vertss]

Originally Posted by germanicus

We are comparing cars that have a 190hp deficit between them. Its silly.
For a 50+k mustang, I think its more likely the owner slams fist into head for not getting the gt350.

In regards to your comment, I think a likely scenario is not a base 18 GT vs a ZL1, but GT vs SS. How many zl1's are sold compared to GT's?

If we get into the realm of "I have zl1 money to play with" One can get a 17 Base GT with PP for 32k out the door (or LESS), plop a 3rd gen whipple on it, replace the OPG and half shafts and put a set of DR's on it. You are WAY under 50 grand still (45ish), and have a car that will put down over 700+hp, quite possibly significantly more.

Sure, some guys just want it from the factory, others don't mind wrenching.

There’s more to a car then going fast straight. The ZL1 goes fast and can carve corners. I would rather have both. To many think straight line speed is everything. There isn’t to many straight roads out there.

[FastCarFanBoy]

Originally Posted by 13vertss/r's

There isn’t to many straight roads out there.

you've never been South Florida, the only roads with turns are on/off ramps to Highways.

[13vertss]

Originally Posted by FastCarFanBoy

you've never been South Florida, the only roads with turns are on/off ramps to Highways.

Try living in NH. A straight section of road is rare. We have some serious twisties up here. They can be fun.

[DevilsReject97]

Originally Posted by FastCarFanBoy

you've never been South Florida, the only roads with turns are on/off ramps to Highways.

Considering how many people in that state can't drive.... I don't know that it really matters unless you're out at 3am...

[oldman]

Originally Posted by germanicus

We are comparing cars that have a 190hp deficit between them. Its silly.
For a 50+k mustang, I think its more likely the owner slams fist into head for not getting the gt350.

Your lips to god's ear. I like the GT350 myself but dealer mark-up being what it is. I could wait a few years with a SS and buy a GT350 second hand and still be below what the dealer wanted for a GT350. So basically waiting would give me two cars for the price of one. Now if the Oldlady would buy into that logic, I'd be all set.

Originally Posted by germanicus

In regards to your comment, I think a likely scenario is not a base 18 GT vs a ZL1, but GT vs SS. How many zl1's are sold compared to GT's?

In that case it would be the auto that would probably win. The non-PP Mustang definitely the underdog with an M6. IMO of course.

Originally Posted by germanicus

If we get into the realm of "I have zl1 money to play with" One can get a 17 Base GT with PP for 32k out the door (or LESS), plop a 3rd gen whipple on it, replace the OPG and half shafts and put a set of DR's on it. You are WAY under 50 grand still (45ish), and have a car that will put down over 700+hp, quite possibly significantly more.

Sure, some guys just want it from the factory, others don't mind wrenching.

Agree, the point is these are HECK of expensive PPs. As I read it even with the PP, the GT still gets the SAME axles and driveshafts. One GT breaking its shaft already is not good news. the 1le, has a ZL1 drivetrain. IMO they are NOT comparable. The 1le offers a completely new drivetrain over a SS; what the GT PP2 offers over the GT..... decidedly less. Toss in the MANDATORY interior doo dag electronic upgarde... it just stats getting dumb to let Ford hotrod your ride. They are in effect daring their customers to go aftermarket.


So the other side of the coin, dishing out $8500 on a PP2 yields bragging rights that it is a faster better handling car stock. OK, but that expense rapidly leads to stock sucks at that point. There is no doubt in my mind the 1le package is a huge bang for the dollar.

[Poppacapp]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

You base that off of being a good driver in a modded 18 GT vs a regular person in a stock ZL1 and that is not a fair comparison. I could cherry pick all day and claim that an excellent driver in a modded Evo can beat a regular person in a stock GT350. Or look at it like this, an excellent driver in a modded 18 GT might be able to beat a regular person in a stock ZL1 in the quarter mile...but that GT will not feel like 650 HP unless and until you hit it with boost. So there is a huge difference. Can I always at any time take a GT and do a max effort run? No. But can I take my 650 hp ZL1 and at any time feel all of those horses while staying within the speed limit? All day every day. 460 hp will never feel like 650 hp. And we don't compare modded cars to stock cars because if we did then the ricers would be talking even more shit than they already do.

And for the record, I consider myself a novice in racing. But you can put anyone you can think of in an 18 GT with those mods and put them in the lane next to me in a stock ZL1 and I'd be very confident that I'd come out ahead and in a much easier fashion.

Well honestly, it won't take much drivermod for an A10 car to go fast. I agree that 650hp feels different than 460. But my comment was in reference to kttxz06 mentioning that a tune/tire/exhaust(ie bolton) 18 GT would not run with a stock ZL1. I disagree, as I feel like bolton performance will be similar to the 6gen/C7 LT1 variants with the quick ones currently running in the 10s. That is plenty to take out a stock ZL1.

Originally Posted by kttxz06

Yea, I compared the Zl1 to the GT350 because the clowns over on the Mustang forums do.

Quote:

Actually the Ford GT, GT350R, Raptor, Focus RS are the Flagships of Ford Performance!

So, let's line em up. Ford GT vs the new Zr1. Not close. Zr1 will eat that shit up. GT350R vs Zl1 1lE. Again, not even a competition. GT 350 lines up vs the Zl1 in the pecking order. Again, Zl1 beats it down. Not sure why they consider the Raptor and Focus RS performance vehicles, but for some reason they do. Then you have the Mustang GT and the Camaro SS. Again, that's a toss up with a slight edge going to the Maro.

I messed up and went over to the other forum to see how they are accepting the new GT. And as usual, it was 20 pages of excuses and.....................Well, the Camaro is ugly. Not one post did they actually point to any performance variants between the 2 cars. It's the..........we don't have mullets like Maro owners. Yea, well, at least we can see. Or it was, the Camaro was ugly. But, when any Maro guy on there stated perf #'s. All hell broke loose. I swear, it's hard to take any Mustang owner serious nowadays.

If you want to compare apples to apples, compare NA to NA. The GT350R wins over the SS 1LE... handily. The ZL1s competitor is the GT500, and rumors are it is coming.

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

1 - That depends on a lot of factors. Even with extreme HP the GT500 with an M6 trans is only going to go soo fast. Look at the HC. 707 hp yet can must only a high 11 in M6 form with the stock tires. Look at the 13 GT500. 663 hp yet could only do an 11.7 with the M6 trans. Ford has never put an auto trans in the GT500. So if they expect it to outrun the 11.4 of the ZL1 with the A10 trans, then it will need a hell of a good tire and a hell of a good auto trans. Is Ford going to break tradition and actually offer it with an auto? We'll see. Otherwise it'll need 750 hp, an awesome tire, and come in at like 3800 pounds just to match the A10 ZL1. And even then it won't be a massacre. It'll be well within a driver's race IF it does beat the ZL1. Around a track, well I doubt it'll beat the ZL1 1LE.

2 - I fall back on my earlier argument. It is nothing new and Ford is again late to the party. Dodge has the HC since 2015 and the Demon for 2018. Both mega hp cars. GM has the CTS-V, Z06, ZL1 (1LE), and the ZR1 is coming (for MY 2019). So now finally Ford shows up with something pushing the numbers that GM and Dodge have both been pushing since 2015? And that is if it is even available for MY 2019. They're late to the party by 4 years at that point. So even if they do beat out the ZL1, by that time the ZL1 will have been on the streets for 3 full MYs, lol!! They had better be able to beat a car that has been out that long since they sure as hell had enough time to develop it. So whats it gonna do? Show up 4 years late for 2 MYs and then disappear again for another 5 years? What kind of shit is that? It won't even matter if they do beat it. And we all see how GM is taking down cars with more HP. If anything the GT500 will have to be very exceptional to beat the ZL1.

3 - This ain't 2013 anymore. Back then the autos were losing to the manuals, Mustangs had solid axles and less weight, cars had nowhere near the extra options they have now...let's just say that the game has changed quite a bit since the last GT500. GM built a platform with the 6th Gen that would allow it to beat cars on higher trim levels and with more power. I think they were pretty confident that Ford would not be able to touch the ZL1 unless they built a similar car with an auto trans, excellent suspension, and awesome tires. We'll see what happens. But I don't think Ford can pull out a win with the S550 chassis. They might have to just do what they can and build the 7th Gen better than they did the S550.

The new GT500 will have the A10(it is a Ford patented transmission afterall, albeit GM and Ford cooperated in developement with for leading the engineering). There are also rumors of AWD as splined front axles have been spotted on supposed test mules. 750+ hp with the rumored 5.2l motor and the TVS 2.65 on it with A10 and AWD? Might surprise some people. Again the are currently rumors. I believe Ford will introduce the GT500 on the new S650 chassis.

Personally, if an A10 c7Z06 was coming, I would trade up in a heartbeat... but I have read that the A10 will not fit the C7.

Originally Posted by DevilsReject97

What's it going to have to say? That it can go fast in a straight line but can't corner once again? Or that after a lap around the track the brakes are pretty much toast?

Let's just assume, for the sake of argument, that you are right....

What's it going to cost? Considering the markups on the GT350/350R, I'm going to say somewhere in the 80-100k range....

Who the hell is buying it? Or more importantly, will any of them actually race them....

I couldn't care less about ADM on cars. I will NEVER pay more than MSRP and rarely that. If I were in the market for one, I would wait for pricing to normalize... after the idiots buy theirs thinking they will make their money back.

And I can guarantee you will see them at the track. Some people would argue why I bought a 17 Grand Sport to drag race. I like drag racing, but plan to hit up road courses too. Mountain runs are glorious. But there is also something satisfying about having a heavy Grand Sport at the dragstrip lifting the front wheels off the ground too

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by germanicus

Now we have seen examples of stock GT's in the 11's, yet they don't count (because......?) The best comeback to this waters down to "But they won't beat my ZL1?"

BTW, who is 'they'? Try not to speak for other people as much, and then apply that brush to an entire community.

As I see it, the entirety of this came about because it was pointed out that an 18 GT with an e85 tune and wheel/tire swap was putting up times that were faster than stock zl1 numbers. Not sure how this is controversial or earth shattering. Either the car did or did not run those numbers. If it did, why get so bent out of shape about it? How does that effect your enjoyment of your vehicle? The only way I see this as being so upsetting is if its important to you that you are perceived as having the fastest vehicle by total strangers to you. When I drive down the street, I don't care whether people think my car is faster than theirs or not. Its not something I lose sleep over, or become enraged about on an internet forum. I doubt that the VAST majority of either Mustang or Camaro owners give a hill of beans about this.

Even if there are people claiming (unreasonable?) results/metrics for a given vehicle, I think its sort of silly to define an entire car community by that.

Just as it would be silly for me to define all the Zl1 drivers here as immature idiots who brag about street racing Mclarens while he/she has their family in the car.

Lets make this not about selectively accepting results that fall in line with one's desired outcomes (my Car is better than your Car). Look up the term "Confirmation bias". Rather, instead of choosing to ignore results that contradict one's expectations (using specious excuses), take them as they reveal themselves.

In my opinion, classifying the GT as under-performing is sort of ridiculous. The 15-17 GT had the highest HP per dollar value of any sports/muscle production car sold at the time anywhere in the world. https://cars.usnews.com/cars-trucks/...wer-per-dollar. When you consider the only real metric that matters to carmakers (Sales), the mustang is not the under-performing pony car. It was the best selling sports car in the world last year.

Less Tribalism. Us vs. Them.
This is becoming worse than some college sports rivalries.

Marvel vs. DC.
Cowboys vs. Redskins.
Camaro vs. Mustang.
Coke vs. Pepsi.

Funny how when the Mustang guys lose they all try to act reasonable and down to Earth...yet a couple weeks ago they were all coming over here in swarms talking shit, getting our threads shut down, starting arguments, etc. But now we're the ones that have to hear these long drawn out comments about how we should be more rational? Tell you what, say all of this the next time they come over here starting bullshit.

Again, throughout all of Hot Rodding one of the main rules is that you do not compare a stock vehicle to a modded one. That rule came about because import guys were modding their cars into 1-run grenades and then saying they could build a 4cyl that is faster than a Mustang for a quarter of the money. So now you have Mustang guys doing the exact same thing. And guess what, they base that off of 1 example. Just 1. ONE guy runs E85/tune/tire and runs what they consider to be a faster time than the ZL1s on our list and that was enough to send them over the edge. LOL! And it is laughable at best. No, an E85/tire/tune combo on a new GT will not beat a ZL1 on the same track, same day, and with a driver of equal skill. It would be hard pressed to do it against a driver of lesser skill on the same track and same day. If anyone would ever like to test this then I'm ready whenever.

As far as me losing sleep or not enjoying my car...where did it ever occur to you that any of this happened in my case? You really think some stupid punks will cause me to enjoy my car less? LOL! Back in my GT and SS days I had more import guys talking shit than I can remember. All of them saying they could do this or that and they would beat me. And all of them lost, badly. I mean it was not even a race. And they all had the same surprised look on their faces. One of them remarked that he thought his car was faster and that he had no idea my SS was that fast. But I knew how fast his car was and I knew he had no chance. So did any of his shit talking before the race bother me? Not even slightly. I was just eager to get him out there and make him eat all those words. And that is where I'm at right now. These GT guys talked shit and ate their words. And now they're still talking and wll eat their words yet again. And I can't wait to be the one to make them eat.

And I define them that way because a LOT of them came over here acting that way...flooding YT with their comments, trolling FB with their comments, etc. They have given the Mustang a bad name and have become the ricers of the Muscle Cars. You were here. You saw it. 1 or 2 f them were cool and mature and I actually enjoyed their comments. But the other 10-15 or more were not.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by Poppacapp

Well honestly, it won't take much drivermod for an A10 car to go fast. I agree that 650hp feels different than 460. But my comment was in reference to kttxz06 mentioning that a tune/tire/exhaust(ie bolton) 18 GT would not run with a stock ZL1. I disagree, as I feel like bolton performance will be similar to the 6gen/C7 LT1 variants with the quick ones currently running in the 10s. That is plenty to take out a stock ZL1.

No it won't. And the main problem with all of this is that the arrogance is soo profound that we have to debate that a GT is NOT faster than a ZL1. It isn't even faster than the SS. Tune/tire/exhaust on a SS and it won't come close to a ZL1 either. Dude, there is a 180/230 hp/tq difference between the cars. The ZL1 tested at a 11.4 to the GT's 12.6. That is a 1.2 second difference. A tune and tire and exhaust is not going to overcome that. Especially when these kids sat over here saying that the tire didn't do much and the tune didn't either. They gave the larger amount of credit for that run to the car itself. Now all of a sudden it does a 12.6 in an actual test and we're supposed to believe the tune/tire/exhaust has magical properties and will propel the car 1.2 seconds faster? There is no way in hell that it will beat an A10 ZL1. And I would put my money on the M6 ZL1 beating it too. That is on the same day and same track. I don't care if Randy Pobst, Evans, John Urist, or the Arch Angel Gabriel himself drives the GT. It is not going to beat a stock ZL1 unless it is FBO including a tire and/or boost/nitrous.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by Poppacapp

If you want to compare apples to apples, compare NA to NA. The GT350R wins over the SS 1LE... handily. The ZL1s competitor is the GT500, and rumors are it is coming.

The GT350R is 2 trim levels above the SS 1LE. And the 1LE still puts up an impressive fight. The GT was the match for the SS. The GT PP was the match for the SS 1LE. And the thing is that the SS was soo good that it had to fight in a higher weight class. None of the Mustang guys had a problem comparing the GT350(R) to the 5th Gen ZL1 and Z28. Why? Because the Shelby outperformed those two cars. But now that it gets it's ass kicked it isn't a fair comparison? LOL. Now we have to compare NA to NA? Weren't you just comparing a modded NA GT to the ZL1? And that was fair because you thought the GT would win. But now we have to be apples to apples with the Shelby because it won't win right? And even if the GT500 does show up, yet again, late to the party Ford. They haven't had an 11 sec car or a car over 600 hp in 4 MYs at this point. Well at least not one that costs less than damn near half a million dollars. By 2019 it'll be 5 MYs and that is IF it comes out for 2019. Nobody is impressed.

Originally Posted by Poppacapp

The new GT500 will have the A10(it is a Ford patented transmission afterall, albeit GM and Ford cooperated in developement with for leading the engineering). There are also rumors of AWD as splined front axles have been spotted on supposed test mules. 750+ hp with the rumored 5.2l motor and the TVS 2.65 on it with A10 and AWD? Might surprise some people. Again the are currently rumors. I believe Ford will introduce the GT500 on the new S650 chassis.

Ford is not going to put all of that in a Mustang. If they did then it would be damn near $100K if not over that amount. Even the Ford GT doesn't have AWD and that thing is $400K. And Ford has never put an auto trans in a Shelby...not that I can remember. So they'll have to break tradition which I don't see them doing. The purists would all have heart attacks if the Shelby was a AWD auto trans car like the GTR. They'd all drop dead. It'll be a 5.2 liter supercharged RWD car with M6 or maybe M7 trans. It'll likely have 700 hp, 725 max. It'll have decent handling and some good brakes with a really good tire. I expect it'll do a low to mid 11. I'll be surprised if it does more than that.

[Chadicus]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

The GT350R is 2 trim levels above the SS 1LE. And the 1LE still puts up an impressive fight. The GT was the match for the SS. The GT PP was the match for the SS 1LE. And the thing is that the SS was soo good that it had to fight in a higher weight class. None of the Mustang guys had a problem comparing the GT350(R) to the 5th Gen ZL1 and Z28. Why? Because the Shelby outperformed those two cars. But now that it gets it's ass kicked it isn't a fair comparison? LOL. Now we have to compare NA to NA? Weren't you just comparing a modded NA GT to the ZL1? And that was fair because you thought the GT would win. But now we have to be apples to apples with the Shelby because it won't win right? And even if the GT500 does show up, yet again, late to the party Ford. They haven't had an 11 sec car or a car over 600 hp in 4 MYs at this point. Well at least not one that costs less than damn near half a million dollars. By 2019 it'll be 5 MYs and that is IF it comes out for 2019. Nobody is impressed.

Ford is not going to put all of that in a Mustang. If they did then it would be damn near $100K if not over that amount. Even the Ford GT doesn't have AWD and that thing is $400K. And Ford has never put an auto trans in a Shelby...not that I can remember. So they'll have to break tradition which I don't see them doing. The purists would all have heart attacks if the Shelby was a AWD auto trans car like the GTR. They'd all drop dead. It'll be a 5.2 liter supercharged RWD car with M6 or maybe M7 trans. It'll likely have 700 hp, 725 max. It'll have decent handling and some good brakes with a really good tire. I expect it'll do a low to mid 11. I'll be surprised if it does more than that.

I don't know who started that rumor but there is 0 chance the GT 500 is AWD. I can't believe we are still hearing the tune and tire BS. The GT is slower than an SS. PERIOD. Jesus I'm starting to think all these "fanboys" are butt-hurt Ford S550 engineers.

These guys need to go back to their own forums and talk about how nice it is to "see". And how much more comfortable the GTs seats are and how they have a car that is much easier to live with.... because when your PP with better tires and more horsepower gets beat by a 4 year old drivetrain and runflats you really have nothing else to say.

[germanicus]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

No it won't. And the main problem with all of this is that the arrogance is soo profound that we have to debate that a GT is NOT faster than a ZL1. It isn't even faster than the SS. Tune/tire/exhaust on a SS and it won't come close to a ZL1 either. Dude, there is a 180/230 hp/tq difference between the cars. The ZL1 tested at a 11.4 to the GT's 12.6. That is a 1.2 second difference. A tune and tire and exhaust is not going to overcome that. Especially when these kids sat over here saying that the tire didn't do much and the tune didn't either. They gave the larger amount of credit for that run to the car itself. Now all of a sudden it does a 12.6 in an actual test and we're supposed to believe the tune/tire/exhaust has magical properties and will propel the car 1.2 seconds faster? There is no way in hell that it will beat an A10 ZL1. And I would put my money on the M6 ZL1 beating it too. That is on the same day and same track. I don't care if Randy Pobst, Evans, John Urist, or the Arch Angel Gabriel himself drives the GT. It is not going to beat a stock ZL1 unless it is FBO including a tire and/or boost/nitrous.

You contradict yourself in your own response. As you know, we have already seen an 18 auto with an e85 and tires put out those numbers. Lund did just that. 11.31 @ 124mph. Faster than all but 2 of your stock zl1 auto fast list entries. Faster than several FBO Zl1 auto fast list entries.

Cognitive Dissonance is a bit strong here.

12.6? There have been numerous sub 12 stock runs. Hell, a total newbie ran a 12.1 on video. You don't get to pick opposite ends of the respective bell curves for your comparisons. Its disingenuous and for all your dispositive assertions otherwise, smells of panic.

To quote the bard, "the lady doth protest too much, methinks"