Traction Control & Winter Driving

[waldo1967]

Hello All...
I leased a 2015 Camaro 2LS back in June.
We had our first snowfall this year and I am preparing myself for the Winter RWD experience.
With that comes some questions on just how the RWD on my car works.
Does both back wheels spin equally? If not, which one does.
How exactly does the traction control effect the wheel spin. Is it just for the back end or all 4 wheels.
As you can tell from my questions, I'm not very well versed in mechanics. So any "dumbed down" information would be appreciated.

[cornerspeed92]

See post #21. Traction control will actually shut you down in certain circumstances. I found you need to actually drive the car. http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=429990

[xc_SS/RS]

Hope you've got decent winter tires for it. Otherwise disable both stability control and traction control. Gotta be able to control the car yourself as getting moving will require spinning the wheels.

Not too sure how the traction control works on these cars though. I think stability control will brake an individual wheel when it detects the car moving the wrong way (like a spin).

[MoCamaro10]

This will be my 5th winter with mine, and the best advice I can give you is get a set of snow tires. I have Blizzaks on mine and the truth is, our cars handle the snow really well with the right tires. The only time you are going to have a little problem is when the snow is piled up causing ground clearance issues.

[My 5th]

I have Pirelli Scorpion Snow & Ice tires on my 2010, in the stock sizes. I found the traction control does help, but mostly in one circumstance.

I have the M6 transmission, a few winters ago I noticed that when going up a moderate slope hill, one where just about everyone else was going sideways or not at all, my Camaro did best when going slow with RPM around 1,000 to 1,200 almost lugging it, and slipping the clutch just enough to get going then letting the clutch all the way out.

When the clutch pedal was fully released I could feel the rear tires bite, and I drove right by front wheel drive and lesser rear wheel drive cars. This was a first for me because all my previous Camaros were like pigs on ice in the snow. The Gen 5's seem much better in the snow than the earlier generations.

[ChrisBlair]

Originally Posted by waldo1967

Hello All...
I leased a 2015 Camaro 2LS back in June.
We had our first snowfall this year and I am preparing myself for the Winter RWD experience.
With that comes some questions on just how the RWD on my car works.
Does both back wheels spin equally? If not, which one does.
How exactly does the traction control effect the wheel spin. Is it just for the back end or all 4 wheels.
As you can tell from my questions, I'm not very well versed in mechanics. So any "dumbed down" information would be appreciated.

Hi.

1) Do both back wheels spin equally? If not, which one does.

Not really cut and dried, the way you ask.Simple answer: your car's rear wheels do not both spin at the same speeds all the time.If they did, taking a corner would not be pleasant. Think about it: As you turn, the distance between the rear wheels stays the same. However the inside wheel has less distance to travel than the outside wheel. Imagine you drove through paint, you'd see two different arcs of tire tracks- the inside arcs would be tighter and also shorter. Therefore the rear wheels are traveling different distances but arrive at their destinations at the same time. So they need to turn at different speeds. Your car has what is called a 'differential' and it refers to differential gearing that enables the wheels to travel at different speeds in a turn. This is 100% normal and has been around for over half a century.

Also, both of your rear wheels propel the car, not just one. You seem to be getting confused between 'standard' differentials and 'positraction' differentials, and how they make the car move. For winter driving in a car like yours with stabilitrac and traction control...don't worry.

2) How exactly does the traction control effect the wheel spin.

In a nutshell, the car has mechanical systems (the differential) and electronic systems (traction control, stabilitrac, and anti-lock brakes) that all work in concert to help control or negate tires slipping, locking, or losing traction. They are not infallible but they do an excellent job.

When the rear tires start to lose traction, the most basic explanation is that traction control cuts "power" to one degree or another, and prevents loss of control.

3) Is it just for the back end or all 4 wheels.

You should think "drive wheels" when you read "traction control". You don't have four wheel drive. However, the anti-lock brakes also assist you and naturally they are for all wheels and although they do not manage "power" they will play a critical part in helping you in the winter: the front tires steer the car only if they are rolling. if they are locking, you will slide in the direction you were last traveling regardless of where you turn the wheel.

[ChrisBlair]

Originally Posted by My 5th

I have Pirelli Scorpion Snow & Ice tires on my 2010, in the stock sizes. I found the traction control does help, but mostly in one circumstance.

I have the M6 transmission, a few winters ago I noticed that when going up a moderate slope hill, one where just about everyone else was going sideways or not at all, my Camaro did best when going slow with RPM around 1,000 to 1,200 almost lugging it, and slipping the clutch just enough to get going then letting the clutch all the way out.

When the clutch pedal was fully released I could feel the rear tires bite, and I drove right by front wheel drive and lesser rear wheel drive cars. This was a first for me because all my previous Camaros were like pigs on ice in the snow. The Gen 5's seem much better in the snow than the earlier generations.

You sure they are all four the same size as stock? Respectfully you do not want a wide snow tire.

I have the same tires for winter on my LS3 and all four are the same size despite being on factory staggered wheels. Maybe the tires have changed slightly since I bought mine in 2012 but my understanding is that the Pirelli Scorpion Snow & Ice tires are SUV tires that happen to fit out wheels and are more or less an 'in between' size.

The phenomenon you found with low rpm is exactly why I choose a gear (or two) higher than normal when taking a turn in inclement weather. Why? I am cutting available torque to the rear wheels.

Now that you have discovered that low rpms are helping more than high rpms- higher rpms get you closer to peak torque, and we want the tires to stop spinning, not start- consider your gear ratios. Each gear in your manual gearbox is a torque multiplier (as is your rear gear). If you are stopped and you select first and the tires can't get traction, try starting in second. You might find you don't need to slip the clutch so much.

I have had the "pleasure" of driving a '78 Firebird Formula through a snowy winter, and it was terrible. My '70 Buick with the 7.5L engine and 510 lb/ft at 2800 rpm was five times the winter driver, with summer tires on it!

My 5Gen LS3 is a perfectly fine winter car when it has snow tires. Never stuck once, and we set all-time snowfall records last year. My front wheel drive owning co-workers got to work hours after me and were stuck in the parking lot at quitting time. I just drove to and from work.

[Scalded Dog]

I'm going into my fifth winter with my Camaro. I live in an alpine area, with steep grades, sharp turns, and lots of snow. This driving is not like winter driving on flat ground... you need speed to get up the grades, but you need to be slow enough that it does NOT throw you out of a curve... on ice and snow.

I've driven lots of vehicles in all kinds of winter conditions, all over the world. I find that my Camaro (auto trans) does REALLY well in the snow... much of it because of traction control, and the ability to turn it on and off.

I leave traction control on for most snow/ ice driving. As long as the vehicle is in motion, it's helping. However, there are times when the car just isn't going any farther. Perhaps a grade is too steep, or another vehicle forced a stop in a bad place, and resuming motion isn't happening. That's when I kick TC to "off," and use some (reasonable!) wheelspin to dig through the ice/ snow to the pavement. Might need to move the car back and forth a few feet to create a clear "launch runway" in order to get moving. Clear a few feet of pavement, back up the the "start line," and launch.... As soon as motion is achieved, TC is back to "on," and I keep rolling... right on past all of the chumps who haven't figured out how to drive in this stuff.

I love driving in this stuff so much that when the snow starts falling, I just go drive, whether I have a place to go or not. It's the funnest, easiest, safest way to practice drifting, sliding, donuts, Rockford Files, reverse whips... you get the picture. Have fun, embrace the slickeriness, and use the TC judiciously.

[christianchevell]

I do pretty much what Scalded Dog said about clearing out the snow when stuck and turning on and off TC. And agree with Chris Blair about keeping the rpms down. I drive a manual daily and snow is not so much here otherwise I would be on snow tires when it snows not just all season performance tires.

[waldo1967]

Excellent explanation ChrisBlair.
Thank You!

[Thor142]

I drove 2 winters in my 2LT in the Buffalo NY area. I was really impressed with the way it handled the snow. Take it out to a safe place like a big parking lot on a day with fresh snow and see what it is/ isn't capable of. That way you're not guessing so much. I always test traction and braking distances as soon as I pull out in bad weather anyway.

[Revrider550]

the 2LS does have an open rear diff so it will be more prone to one wheel spinning. look into firestone winterforces if youre going with a snow tire. nice aggresive tread and cheap for a snow tire. I had a 225 60 18 on the same rims you have and they worked great.

I cant give you and exact explination of the traction control but i will say its a godsend. turn it off and youll quickly realize how great it really is.