[GTIanZ28]

Chevy has raised the bar.

There has been a lot of talk here about the camaro vs the mustang. I think Chevy was aiming higher. Just like the ATS I believe Chevy is looking at the BMW 2 & 3 series.

The turbo 4 compares favorably to the 228/328
The V6 with the 235/335
The SS to the M3.

The numbers are close! The edge going to BMW in some comparisons. The price going to the Camaro in all.

With the higher trims and all the tech I'm not sure how much argument can be made for the refinement being vastly superior in German cars. Chevy has stepped up their game and the interior is looking comparable.

There has been a lot of grumbling from the BMW community that the 3 series has become "soft". From what I've read they simply aren't as composed or as engaging as previous generations..... There is now a disconnect from the driver.

Will the camaro be the new "driving machine" that the BMW once was?

[amerhash28]

Originally Posted by GTIanZ28

Will the camaro be the new "driving machine" that the BMW once was?

I don't know man. The m3 is a true racing and street car but the SS isn't just a V8 streets car,its serious now.about the competition,on paper the cars are competing but in reality,im not so sure......M3 has a better transmission and better platform(made for racing).but im positive about this.it will be a tight competition

[Noob]

i suggest to put in the M4 too.
But not the limited (700) M4GTS with 500hp, 1510kg, 0-60 in 3,8sec. and did the Nordschleife (Nuerburgring) in 7.28min.

[GTIanZ28]

Well my initial frame of reference was the lower end models. I do realize the prowess of the M3..... And yes, it is a stretch to pit the SS vs the M3. But, at the same time it is close and I bet the magazine articles make that same reference.

Forget the M3/M4.

How will the 2 / 3 / 4 series stack up to the camaro?

The testing will be out soon enough.... As will the comparisons. We already know the camero is going to better the mustang. Will it better Audi? Lexus? BMW? Fun times to be had. Looking forward to the 16th!

[maroonpanther]

Originally Posted by GTIanZ28

Chevy has raised the bar.

There has been a lot of talk here about the camaro vs the mustang. I think Chevy was aiming higher. Just like the ATS I believe Chevy is looking at the BMW 2 & 3 series.

The turbo 4 compares favorably to the 228/328
The V6 with the 235/335
The SS to the M3.

The numbers are close! The edge going to BMW in some comparisons. The price going to the Camaro in all.

With the higher trims and all the tech I'm not sure how much argument can be made for the refinement being vastly superior in German cars. Chevy has stepped up their game and the interior is looking comparable.

There has been a lot of grumbling from the BMW community that the 3 series has become "soft". From what I've read they simply aren't as composed or as engaging as previous generations..... There is now a disconnect from the driver.

Will the camaro be the new "driving machine" that the BMW once was?

I drove my bro's M4 when stock (now has around 550-600hp) and it felt bland for driving a M car. The 5th gen camaro 1le's lap at willow springs is 1:22.70 and the m4's is 1:23.73 (both had same driver). It is clear that the 6th gen ss is going to beat the m4 on the track and it will destroy my cla45 amg. The m4 also cost over 80k with all the options on it because when bmw says base, they really mean base. Don't believe all the hype of these cars because there performance aspect is really nothing special. I feel its just a way for the M buyers to justify there money when in reality they are paying for "luxury" which I could care less about being 21.

[tpmotorsports]

My last 3 DD’s were all BMW, the most recent being a 550 modified with Dinan Stage 5. I sold that in December in favor of a ’14 ZL1.

BMW has seriously lost its way from being a true “driving machine” IMO. The F10 can’t compare to the earlier E60 or even the earlier 3 series. Repeated trips to the dealer for high pressure fuel pump, new fuel injectors, new O2 sensors are simply not acceptable for a $70k performance sedan.

They do have great fit and finish, especially paint. The dealer treats you nice – however I don’t want to see the dealer. Their continues to be no shortage of folks buying BMW's simply because they are BMW's. However they lost me.

My wife prefers convertibles and test drove everything in the class and came down to the M4 vs Corvette. She now drives a 2015 convertible C7, it was 100% her buying decision.

So yes - Chevy can compete.

[KMPrenger]

This was posted up on MotorTrend's website:

[Curr]

Those 550i's are a damn nice cars. I almost got one when shopping for a new sedan. However the "BMW" tax for repairs, and their long term cost of ownership / high repair costs scared me away to Infiniti, where I got what I feel I'll get much better value out of the car, as I keep them for a long time. I wanted to get the M56, but they had issues with the timing chains, so I settled for the V6 M37x.

Imagine a Car & Driver issue where they put the V6 Camaro ahead of the 228i in a coupe showdown?! That is just great.

[SuperSound]

Originally Posted by GTIanZ28

Well my initial frame of reference was the lower end models. I do realize the prowess of the M3..... And yes, it is a stretch to pit the SS vs the M3. But, at the same time it is close and I bet the magazine articles make that same reference.

Forget the M3/M4.

How will the 2 / 3 / 4 series stack up to the camaro?

The testing will be out soon enough.... As will the comparisons. We already know the camero is going to better the mustang. Will it better Audi? Lexus? BMW? Fun times to be had. Looking forward to the 16th!

A stretch to compare SS to M3/M4....don't think so. The M cars are not what they used to be. Just take a look at the lightning laps:

2014 M4: 3.00.7
2013 SS 1LE: 3.01.5
2015 ATS-V: 2.59.8

So with the '16 SS posting better factory specs than the 5th gen 1LE, it will certainty beat it around the track. It also looks better, nicer interior, more tech available, and a lower price.

But truthfully, the German cars don't belong in the comparison. They compete in a different segment. The ATS-V is their competition and it is clear Caddy is applying serious performance against them.

[Noob]

@supersound
unfortunately the ATS-V is still NOT available in germany ,yet. Will it come at all ??
Only the ATS is available and some with 4wd.
Same szenario with the CTS, no -V available, yet.

But back to comparison to BMW. Why do you think they dont belong to the comparison ?
OK our brands have and had no "muscle cars" but if i buy a new GT or a SS my friends and colleagues will compare them against their AUDI A5 f.e. and AMG 63 or BMW M´s.

[drivingagain]

Last car was a BMW 5 series. I was originally impressed with a 6 cylinder getting 27mpg. Yes 230hp was enough for DD. ALthough 28mpg ss v8 455hp on tap camaro. This is impressive. Hands down take a NA v8 over turbo anything. Really want a turbo add one two twin scroll turbos to a v8 and watch the german cars quiver with hp envy.

I went through my import car phase glad I am returning back to a v8 camaro! Nothing like a v8 that will scare the sh** out of you! Like my KX500 dirt bike.

[juzefzoozoo]

I hear the new 435 with track pkg is a revival of the BMW Driver's Car of ole. I will test it out and see.

[Arrow signs]

Originally Posted by juzefzoozoo

I hear the new 435 with track pkg is a revival of the BMW Driver's Car of ole. I will test it out and see.

C&D write up on the 435i had the Audi as the better drivers car. I'm more intrigued by Mercedes C450AMG. In the low to mid 60k group I would rather have the ATSV the M3s equal.
http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...omparison-test
Price/performance is hard to compare the Camaro with BMW. Camaro has taken to the track and 1/4 with great times, 4-6-8. You can get similar performance #s from BMW but be ready to spend $$$$$.
IMO it would be tough to see the tail lights knowing I could have had a Camaro.

[SuperSound]

Originally Posted by Noob

@supersound
unfortunately the ATS-V is still NOT available in germany ,yet. Will it come at all ??
Only the ATS is available and some with 4wd.
Same szenario with the CTS, no -V available, yet.

But back to comparison to BMW. Why do you think they dont belong to the comparison ?
OK our brands have and had no "muscle cars" but if i buy a new GT or a SS my friends and colleagues will compare them against their AUDI A5 f.e. and AMG 63 or BMW M´s.

Was referring to US market since that's where OP is. German market would definitely be different.

Most people shopping for a BMW are not going to have the Camaro on their list. They will likely cross-shopping Audi, Merc, Lexus, or Infiniti. There are exceptions to every rule however.