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Old 12-15-2011, 11:05 PM   #1
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More reasons why 6th Gen will be (should be) based on ATS

http://wot.motortrend.com/2013-cadil...ur-146257.html

I know speculation that the next Gen Camaro will ride on the same platform as the ATS is nothing new, but now we are starting to see more details on the new Caddy ATS.

Looks like it will be offering 3 - 4 engine choices. A 2.5 (possibly not for the U.S. though), an all new 270 HP twin-scroll turbo 2.0, the LFX 3.6 (article states 318HP, but some are saying 330) and very possibly a 'V' version with the new V8.

So after reading the above article, I'm very excited about the possibilities for a 6th gen Camaro.

Most here (myself included) believe the 6th gen will not offer a V6 if a turbo 4 is standard (or visa-versa) but could this point otherwise?

Furthermore...

Cadillac’s David Leone says it will be "several hundred lbls lighter than competition such as the BMW 3 series". Based on my limited research of the 3 series, it is already lighter than the Camaro, so that puts my educated guess for the ATS in the range of 3,300 to 3,600 lbs.

The ATS has already ran a confirmed 8:28 lap time at Nurburgring with the V6...which is just 8 seconds slower than the 2010 SS ran. You gotta believe that with the same V6 in a 6th gen Camaro (which will hopefully be a tad lighter still, and with slightly more performance oriented suspension) could shave a couple seconds off of that. Just imagine that...amazing performance in a V6, and mind boggling in a V8.

While I love my Camaro, we all know they are a bit big, and a bit heavy. This is what the 5th gen should have been....but the platform just wasn't available. As great as the 5th gen is, I think the 6th gen will be a great step forward.

Now if the look is as good as the rest looks like it could be....it might just be enough for me to leave my current love (see below!)
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Old 12-15-2011, 11:32 PM   #2
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I haven't seen anything indicating the ATS will have a V8 option. I will be very surprised if GM offers a V8 because I think it would be tough to engineer a chassis that could run an I-4, V6, and V8. I guess it could happen but then you start having weight distribution and suspension geometry issues.
Is this an early indication the 6th gen Camaro will not have a V8? I've always believed the 5th gen will be the last V8 powered Camaro. We might be seeing a V6 powered ZL1 in the future (6th gen). Sounds bad? A twin turbo V6 in a ~3600 lbs chassis might change your mind!
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Old 12-15-2011, 11:33 PM   #3
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I personally don't think that Chevy would drop the six because of the poor stigma that the 4 carries with it. I mean a turbo 4 is fast but Chevy recognizes that no one, and I mean no one, would let a 4 sit inside of a Camaro. Regardless of the forced power, its a 4... but it will be interesting to see what happens.
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Old 12-16-2011, 02:28 AM   #4
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If the Mustang has a V8 Chevy will have to offer a V8 otherwise the Camaro will die again..... IMHO I won't buy a V6 Camaro SS if a V8 Mustang GT is available.....
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Old 12-16-2011, 02:44 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LimaCharlie View Post
I haven't seen anything indicating the ATS will have a V8 option. I will be very surprised if GM offers a V8 because I think it would be tough to engineer a chassis that could run an I-4, V6, and V8. I guess it could happen but then you start having weight distribution and suspension geometry issues.
Is this an early indication the 6th gen Camaro will not have a V8? I've always believed the 5th gen will be the last V8 powered Camaro. We might be seeing a V6 powered ZL1 in the future (6th gen). Sounds bad? A twin turbo V6 in a ~3600 lbs chassis might change your mind!
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I personally don't think that Chevy would drop the six because of the poor stigma that the 4 carries with it. I mean a turbo 4 is fast but Chevy recognizes that no one, and I mean no one, would let a 4 sit inside of a Camaro. Regardless of the forced power, its a 4... but it will be interesting to see what happens.
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If the Mustang has a V8 Chevy will have to offer a V8 otherwise the Camaro will die again..... IMHO I won't buy a V6 Camaro SS if a V8 Mustang GT is available.....
to all these posts. I would love to see what happens in the future.
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Old 12-16-2011, 08:23 AM   #6
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I agree with all points above for the most part.

Nobody would be estatic over hearing that the Camaro would have a 4 cylinder, but then when they hear that same engine makes 270HP/260TQ (with 90% of that tq available from 1,500 rpm up to about 5,400 rpm if memory servers me correctly) then its not so bad.

Then if you remember for the last 2.0Turbo chevy offered a factory tune that upped the power to 300/300 or so, and it makes it even better.

I can definitely see buyers choosing a V8 mustang over a TTV6 Camaro if that was the only option...but I have zero doubt a TTV6 can easily compete with a modern V8. We are now finally starting to see great FI builds being done with the current V6. Getting well over 400 HP, and just under 400 TQ at the wheels is easy. Its capable of much more when you turn up the boost, but then you start digging further into reliability issus.

Oh, and I can't say for sure if the sources were correct, but I know I've read more than once the ATS was designed to be able to fit a V8 in there.
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Old 12-16-2011, 08:31 AM   #7
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Let's not forget some of these had a 4 cylinder. We all know how that turned out....You don't put a 4 cylinder in a true muscle car.

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Old 12-16-2011, 08:42 AM   #8
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You don't put a V6 in a true muscle car either...but they do. I wouldn't be suprised at all to see a nearly 300 horse turbo 4 in a lightweight Camaro.....but I'd take the 6 over that (and yes I know...everyone would want to take the V8 over that lol)
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Old 12-16-2011, 08:58 AM   #9
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True about the V6 in a muscle car, however the Camaro V6 is very capable. I just immediately thought of the Mustang II and what a hunk of crap that was and how ugly it was. Looks like a Pinto with the Pep Boys Package.
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Old 12-16-2011, 09:07 AM   #10
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A turbo V6 would be great for those who want a 6 cylinder Camaro, and a lot of folks do, but I sure hope they don't drop the V8. The car I just traded in was a BMW 135i. A 300 hp turbo 6 in a car that was smaller and lighter than the Camaro. At some point I realized what I really wanted was an American V8 and and I liked the Camaro better than the Mustang, so now I have the SS convertible. If the "big" engine in Camaro had been a 6, even with a turbo and 350 horsepower, I'd still be driving the 135.

For what it's worth, the Cadillac in the picture looks a lot like a BMW 335 four door with a different front end. That's sort of sad.
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Old 12-16-2011, 09:07 AM   #11
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I feel bad for the 6ht Gen design team. . Could you imagine trying to find a way to top the 5th Gens? I hope they do, then I will have a 6th Gen taking up the rest of the space in my garage.
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Old 12-16-2011, 10:42 AM   #12
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We all will see. But I wont care much, at my age and plans my SS will be the last car like this as I keep them all along time, and will be hard to top it and for all it stands for. Scott also mentioned in a meeting we had about the future saying v8's will be available in the future but with a big $ tag attached most cant afford. Asked us " how about a turbo 6?"
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Old 12-16-2011, 11:08 AM   #13
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If chevy put a turbo 4 in the camaro it would be the worst thing that has happen to the camaro since they stoped production in 2002. Also I would never buy a camaro with a turbo 4 in it. But when the 6th gen camaro does come out I hope they offer a v6 (with arround 350hp) for the most basic camaro and the Rs model with a turbo v6 ( with arround 450hp) and the SS with a large displacement v8 (with the ls7 making 550hp). Then the zl1 with at least 700hp to keep up the the new gt500
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Old 12-16-2011, 11:11 AM   #14
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Quote:
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If the "big" engine in Camaro had been a 6, even with a turbo and 350 horsepower, I'd still be driving the 135.
A turbo V6 would have well over 350 HP....it'd better if it is to succeed.

I can't see why it wouldn't as getting the current V6 to that HP number only requires like 3lbs of boost lol.

500HP is not difficult now, but I don't see GM releasing a turbo'd V6 with that much power. Somewhere in the 400 to 450 range would do it as long as the TQ was decent as well.
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Old 12-16-2011, 11:16 AM   #15
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True about the V6 in a muscle car, however the Camaro V6 is very capable. I just immediately thought of the Mustang II and what a hunk of crap that was and how ugly it was. Looks like a Pinto with the Pep Boys Package.
But the V6's haven't always been capable, they were just there to sell more cars. This one is an exception, but also hints at future capabilities.

In this changing world of higher fuel prices, tighter government restrictions and improving technology it would be naive to think that V8's will be around forever. So at some point, even the most diehard among us will have to accept the change that the future will no doubt bring.
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Old 12-16-2011, 11:20 AM   #16
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There is no doubt in my mine there will be a v8 in the 6th gen camaro I just hope the v8 gets bigger not smaller
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Old 12-16-2011, 11:49 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by KMPrenger View Post
You don't put a V6 in a true muscle car either...but they do. I wouldn't be suprised at all to see a nearly 300 horse turbo 4 in a lightweight Camaro.....but I'd take the 6 over that (and yes I know...everyone would want to take the V8 over that lol)
The V6 Camaro isn't a muscle car though, it's a pony car, just like the I-6 Mustangs of the 60s.

If the ATS chassy was used for the 6th gen Camaro it's hard to know if they would squeeze an 8 cylinder in there but for the ATS line I highly doubt they would use an 8 since it's competing with 3 series and C class mercedes with I-6s.
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Old 12-16-2011, 12:35 PM   #18
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Numbers speak................how impressive is the power and towing of the new Ford V6 - twin turbo?? How many truck drivers said they'd never have anything less than a V8.

Without a doubt, the Gen6 will have a v8. But it may only be the Z/28 and ZL1.
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Old 12-16-2011, 03:46 PM   #19
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Numbers speak................how impressive is the power and towing of the new Ford V6 - twin turbo?? How many truck drivers said they'd never have anything less than a V8.

Without a doubt, the Gen6 will have a v8. But it may only be the Z/28 and ZL1.
I can agree with that...wouldn't suprise me a bit. But then again I'm thinking a direct injection V8 will be in the works for the next gen Corvette and the Camaro
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Old 12-16-2011, 04:44 PM   #20
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1) 6th gen will be Alpha based.
2) 6th gen base engine will be the 2.0T. No use covering your eyes and ears and pretending like it won't happen. Take solace in knowing that the 2.0T is light years beyond any four-cylinder ever applied to a car in this class.
3) Alpha can support a Gen V V8.
4) Watch what Ford does with the Mustang...
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Old 12-16-2011, 04:57 PM   #21
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What about a variation of the small displacement v8 that is slated for the next gen Vette, do you see that making it's way to the 6th Gen camaro?

http://autos.yahoo.com/news/next-cor...turbo-v-8.html
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Old 12-16-2011, 04:59 PM   #22
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There have been a lot of rumors regarding the C7 and the Gen V V8s, but most of them are wrong or partially wrong.

As far as I know, the Gen Vs will retain the 5.3L and 6.2L displacements.
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Old 12-16-2011, 05:11 PM   #23
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270 hp 4-cylinder? Will the base car come with a 16.4% price decrease to compensate for a 16.4% power decrease? And will it come with a coupon for a free turbo replacement when that turbo inevitably dies half way through the useful life of the car?

I don't see the move to replacing V6s with small, premium, turbo 4s chugging along quite as smoothly in certain cars as most people think. For those of you who think there's no problem doing that, read up on new new Explorer. GM might be able to slide a turbo 4 into the lineup as a fuel economy option, or in the base LS trim level, but if they replace the V6 and V8 with a 4-cyl and V6 respectively on the mainstream LT and SS trims, there is going to be a revolt from Camaro buyers. Buyers in this segment don't want small engines. Other cars (370Z, Subaru, etc...) offer similar configurations, with similar weigh:power, and better balanced chassis for the same money or less.

My prediction, the 6th gen Camaro will have a V6 and V8 for their mainstream trims. (If a 4 is offered, it will be in addition to the V6, not a replacement). Both V6 and V8 will get small displacement decreases, and either break even or have slight power decreases, though with decreased vehicle weight, they will break even or slightly improve on weight:power. The V8 will be the gen V V-8, will have some kind of variable valve timing and direct injection. In a somewhat lighter, smaller, more aeordynamic car, both V6 and V8 will see at least a 3, maybe 4 mpg increase on their respective EPA highway ratings.
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Old 12-16-2011, 05:18 PM   #24
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If the ATS chassy was used for the 6th gen Camaro it's hard to know if they would squeeze an 8 cylinder in there
It shouldn't be a problem. That's the advantage of GM's more "old-fashioned" pushrod V8s. Cam-in-block engines take up less room, and can fit into a smaller space than an OHC V-8. The small block V8 is probably no wider than the OHC V6 that will be in the ATS, will be shorter top to bottom than both an OHC V6 and 4, and if a 4-cyl will fit length-wise, so will a V8.
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Old 12-18-2011, 08:42 PM   #25
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1) 6th gen will be Alpha based.
2) 6th gen base engine will be the 2.0T. No use covering your eyes and ears and pretending like it won't happen. Take solace in knowing that the 2.0T is light years beyond any four-cylinder ever applied to a car in this class.
3) Alpha can support a Gen V V8.
4) Watch what Ford does with the Mustang...
I've been doing some reading on mustang rumors as well, but from that statement it appears you know some good info on that as well.

I've read the next mustang, besides being a new "global" car will also be lighter than the current mustang...which is already light compared to camaro.

I have to say, I like what Ford has done design-wise with the 2013 mustang. Looking forward to seeing what their official next gen is like for the 2014 or 2015 model.
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