End of our Hobby... End of an Era...

[ghosted]

Originally Posted by backeddy

Anyone who thinks this will go "nowhere" is a moron......ask us here in ca how "friendly" all of this bs is....... You don't think think they will show up at spec races and seize your car huh? you are a special kind of DUMB. It is not uncommon for the police in very liberal areas (santa cruz) of CA to set up check points to visually check your car for mods.....they tow them and now you are fcked. call your congressmen please!

If you live in California, you're a special kind of DUMB.

But seriously, California is a terrible example. California has plenty of laws that other states simply wouldn't stand for. Bullet button, anyone?

[FenwickHockey65]

Originally Posted by backeddy

Anyone who thinks this will go "nowhere" is a moron......ask us here in ca how "friendly" all of this bs is....... You don't think think they will show up at spec races and seize your car huh? you are a special kind of DUMB. It is not uncommon for the police in very liberal areas (santa cruz) of CA to set up check points to visually check your car for mods.....they tow them and now you are fcked. call your congressmen please!

California does all kinds of BS the rest of the country thinks is downright stupid. Nothing California does should be used as an example for the rest of the country.

[Evil-Bee-NH]

So we care why? You do realize that this is a law they can't enforce.

[two_wheel_mayhem]

Originally Posted by ghosted

You really think even 100,000 signatures will do anything?

There's this little thing that with a white house petition if you get 100,000 signatures the president has to respond in some manner. So it's an attention getter if nothing else.

[rontammy0]

Originally Posted by flyer08

If you cant drive your race car....race your street car

This is damn smart......

[ghosted]

Originally Posted by two_wheel_mayhem

There's this little thing that with a white house petition if you get 100,000 signatures the president has to respond in some manner. So it's an attention getter if nothing else.

Right, but that's all it'll get you. I participated in that site back when 10,000 signatures got you a "response from the white house", and they immediately upped it to 100,000.

[LT1Zob]

What's the point? You defeat this, and then what? Many more will follow. It's an all out assault on anything and everything we enjoy and the American way of life in general. Eventually it will end with taxing driving so much that most of us won't be able to afford it. Electric, self driving pods are the future we have to look forward to.

[two_wheel_mayhem]

Originally Posted by ghosted

Right, but that's all it'll get you. I participated in that site back when 10,000 signatures got you a "response from the white house", and they immediately upped it to 100,000.

I know..lol just give them something to do instead of complain.

Truth is the EPA has never gotten the aftermarket industry to fold and the Federal government could care less, it's all lip service.

For 25 years they fight this battle, for 25 years the Feds refuse to push all 50 states into mandatory emissions testing. It's a no-brainer, if they cared this would have happened years ago.

The target here isn't really racecars, it's the stuff they sell for newer cars that is "off road use only"

Oh btw, there's a whole motorcycle lobby that fights against this too.

[guerrillakilla13]

Originally Posted by ghosted

If you live in California, you're a special kind of DUMB.

But seriously, California is a terrible example. California has plenty of laws that other states simply wouldn't stand for. Bullet button, anyone?

^^^ this guy knows what's up. Only in commifornia would they do something like checkpoints for car mods, instead of tackling real issues. Anyway, I digress. States like Cali will lead the way to V8's doom.

[ghosted]

Originally Posted by guerrillakilla13

^^^ this guy knows what's up. Only in commifornia would they do something like checkpoints for car mods, instead of tackling real issues. Anyway, I digress. States like Cali will lead the way to V8's doom.

I don't remember the 70s, because I wasn't born yet, but the 70s almost killed the muscle car too. The gas crunch, coupled with hippie environmentalists led to a search for efficiency and clean emissions. Only in the past decade have we started to see the return of the muscle car. You can't kill the muscle car, nor can you kill the free market....but I think the biggest hurdles are behind us.

[JCunningham]

they introduce this bill every year. People have forgotten about it every year like its new. petitions are BS they do nothing.

[blake-b]

http://www.roadandtrack.com/motorspo...ctually-means/

From the link:
"Today, the automotive enthusiast press went into a collective tizzy over a press release sent out by the Specialty Equipment Manufacturer's Association. In it, SEMA shed light on a previously unpublicized bit of wording buried within a giant, 629-page proposal drafted by the EPA in July of 2015.

"EPA Seeks to Prohibit Conversion of Vehicles Into Racecars," SEMA's headline reads. But the reality of the legislation is a lot more nuanced than that.

Update, 2/9/16, 5:45PM: See the end of this post for further clarification from the EPA.

EPA spokeswoman Laura Allen released the following statement on the recently uncovered EPA language:

People may use EPA-certified motor vehicles for competition, but to protect public health from air pollution, the Clean Air Act has – since its inception – specifically prohibited tampering with or defeating the emission control systems on those vehicles.The proposed regulation that SEMA has commented on does not change this long-standing law, or approach.

Instead, the proposed language in the Heavy-Duty Greenhouse Gas rulemaking simply clarifies the distinction between motor vehicles and nonroad vehicles such as dirt bikes and snowmobiles. Unlike motor vehicles – which include cars, light trucks, and highway motorcycles – nonroad vehicles may, under certain circumstances, be modified for use in competitive events in ways that would otherwise be prohibited by the Clean Air Act.

EPA is now reviewing public comments on this proposal.

In other words, the wording included in the bill, and highlighted by SEMA, is not a newly established rule outlawing a previously allowed activity. Instead, with this language, the EPA seeks only to clarify the wording of an existing law—one that has been in place for many years, and that apparently has not hampered our current culture of amateur or semi-professional competition using production road vehicles in any way.

What isn't clear is how the EPA's newly clarified language will affect hobby racers going forward. The draft, as far as we've seen, does not include any proposal for enforcement. And as Tim Odell at Hooniverse points out, the law is not slated to go into effect until 2018, and it won't be retroactive. So even if it does pass as currently written, it will never apply to current racing-modified production cars, only to those produced in 2018 or later and purchased with the intent of being raced. That is, if the law passes at all.

We applaud SEMA for bringing this issue to light. Were it not for the organization's diligent analysis of vehicular legislation, none of us would even know about this issue—the EPA proposal was drafted in July 2015, and the public comment period opened and closed with no major coverage. SEMA has been pursuing the issue ever since, submitting comments on the original draft proposal and meeting with EPA agents to discuss the ramifications.

But as it stands right now, we don't know enough about the EPA's proposal to make broad-reaching conclusions about what it means for current or future racers. Currently, it's illegal under federal law to remove the emissions-controls devices from any car sold to be driven on the street, a fact that was true long before the EPA wrote this proposal. When was the last time you saw a track day, LeMons race, hillclimb, drag-strip meetup, or any other amateur racing event broken up by Feds?

R&T has reached out to the EPA for clarification on the law, the plans for enforcement, and what types of vehicles or competition might be exempted. Until then, let's not race to conclusions.

Update: EPA spokesperson Laura Allen provided this further clarification to R&T:

This clarification does not affect EPA's enforcement authority. It is still illegal to tamper with or defeat the emission control systems of motor vehicles. In the course of selecting cases for enforcement, the EPA has and will continue to consider whether the tampered vehicle is used exclusively for competition. The EPA remains primarily concerned with cases where the tampered vehicle is used on public roads, and more specifically with aftermarket manufacturers who sell devices that defeat emission control systems on vehicles used on public roads.
Emphasis added. From this, it sure sounds like (as we stated above) the EPA doesn't plan on confiscating your trailered, track-only race vehicle—only that, as has been the case since emissions regulation began, you're breaking the law if you remove federally-mandated emissions controls from your street-driven car."

[blumaro]

Leave it to our government to legislate things that aren't really a problem. I wonder what percentage of street driven cars get modified in such a way that defeats emission systems? If you read this forum you would be lead to believe that nearly all Camaro owners have or intend to install long tube headers and remove the cats. This is just not the case. This forum represents a small minority of owners who happen to be automotive enthusiasts. Most vehicle owners are only interested in getting from point A to point B.

This is right up there with the FAA violating congressional law with their new regulations for model airplanes...what they call drones. Yet another solution to a problem that does not exist.

Remember the car-crusher BS that was all the rage a while back? That was ridiculous as well. Old cars tend to fall off the road due to lack of maintenance pretty quickly. The old cars that remain on the road tend to be operated by enthusiasts who maintain them meticulously. These are not the gross polluters that the government was targeting. I remember an editorial in Hot Rod magazine that pointed out that when you crush a car you essentially have wasted the large amount of energy that went into the production of the vehicle. It would make more sense to maintain the old car and continue to drive it in order to maximize the energy investment that went into it's manufacture.

Okay, that's my rant for today.

[motorhead]

Originally Posted by FenwickHockey65

California does all kinds of BS the rest of the country thinks is downright stupid. Nothing California does should be used as an example for the rest of the country.

It should be used as a what not to do. We really should grand them their independence or rather force them to become their own country. They are starting to infect other parts of the country with their sickness.

On topic, the EPA has already back peddled on the topic anyhow. You guys need to read the other thread.