[speedyman]

Originally Posted by mkorgan

We asked the question because I told Mark that it has been discussed on the forums and it would be good to ask. I think the ring time is simple a way to judge how the Camaro stacks up against the best in the world using the benchmark that most of the world uses for performance. Al said "the ring is our lab, our testing ground". It used to be willow or Milford (and to some extent it still is) but if you want to compete on the world stage, you need to go to the ring and to their credit, that is exactly what GM has done since the rebirth of the Camaro. The rest of the world traditionally mocks American sports cars but with the Camaro and Vette steadily making their way to the top of the rings leaderboard, the world has to take notice and acknowledge what the American sports car have become, a legitimate...world class supercar. I don't think a traditional Ford, Chevy, or Dodge buyer cares that much but if you are trying to peel market share from the loyal Porsche, BMW, Mercedes or Audi crowd....the ring time is a great place to start your argument.

Sure, interesting to see how Zl1s, GT350s, or whatever else stacks up against the traditional elite of the performance world.

My point is quite simple. It is highly unlikely that significant numbers of buyers if any will opt for a Euro exotic costing 2-4 times as much as a ZL1 based on a "ring time". That is just really not going to happen in numbers and that makes the "ring time" more a matter of performance trivia rather than a basis for purchase as some drumbeaters would have us believe. The C7 Z06 has never posted a "ring time" and they have sold by the tens of thousands with a devout following.

[Infern0]

Originally Posted by mkorgan

We asked the question because I told Mark that it has been discussed on the forums and it would be good to ask. I think the ring time is simple a way to judge how the Camaro stacks up against the best in the world using the benchmark that most of the world uses for performance. Al said "the ring is our lab, our testing ground". It used to be willow or Milford (and to some extent it still is) but if you want to compete on the world stage, you need to go to the ring and to their credit, that is exactly what GM has done since the rebirth of the Camaro. The rest of the world traditionally mocks American sports cars but with the Camaro and Vette steadily making their way to the top of the rings leaderboard, the world has to take notice and acknowledge what the American sports car have become, a legitimate...world class supercar. I don't think a traditional Ford, Chevy, or Dodge buyer cares that much but if you are trying to peel market share from the loyal Porsche, BMW, Mercedes or Audi crowd....the ring time is a great place to start your argument.

Being able to say you beat or tied supercars, hell even other american muscle cars is a bonus.

[hjdca]

Note: The ride also has a lot to do with the track tires. When I took off the Trefeos and put on the MPS4S on my Z/28, the ride got way more compliant and the tram lining completely stopped... Now it just feels like a lowered pony car with a great lowered suspension that corners unreal anytime you want.. No worries on driving it every day.. It was definitely harder to drive it every day with the Trefeos.

[Macaro]

Thank you guys so much for taking and posting the interview! Great to hear some of these things straight from Al's mouth. Can't wait for my ZL1 1LE order to become official.

[kingbambino22]

Originally Posted by hjdca

Note: The ride also has a lot to do with the track tires. When I took off the Trefeos and put on the MPS4S on my Z/28, the ride got way more compliant and the tram lining completely stopped... Now it just feels like a lowered pony car with a great lowered suspension that corners unreal anytime you want.. No worries on driving it every day.. It was definitely harder to drive it every day with the Trefeos.

Same way I felt when I was DD the Z/28 I had. I missed the stiffer ride lol. I'm all for stiff cause I don't by performance cars for luxury items. That's just me though. Ill be glad to have a car I don't have to change any parts to aftermarket ones. Drive to the store like normal, to track if I feel like tracking, road trips and all. I'm more concern with the tires lasting a little longer than the Z/28 that's all. Oh, and the price,

[Sven59]

Originally Posted by speedyman

Sure, interesting to see how Zl1s, GT350s, or whatever else stacks up against the traditional elite of the performance world.

My point is quite simple. It is highly unlikely that significant numbers of buyers if any will opt for a Euro exotic costing 2-4 times as much as a ZL1 based on a "ring time". That is just really not going to happen in numbers and that makes the "ring time" more a matter of performance trivia rather than a basis for purchase as some drumbeaters would have us believe. The C7 Z06 has never posted a "ring time" and they have sold by the tens of thousands with a devout following.

Did you know a Boeing 707 can do a barrel roll? Does it matter selling it to airlines? Not much, but it got their attention.

[mkorgan]

Originally Posted by Sven59

Did you know a Boeing 707 can do a barrel roll? Does it matter selling it to airlines? Not much, but it got their attention.

It sure as hell would get mine, especially if I was in the plane when they decided to prove it 😳

[VAZL1]

Originally Posted by mkorgan

It sure as hell would get mine, especially if I was in the plane when they decided to prove it 😳

[speedyman]

Originally Posted by Sven59

Did you know a Boeing 707 can do a barrel roll? Does it matter selling it to airlines? Not much, but it got their attention.

Thank You! I couldn't have made my point in a better fashion. Would any airline have NOT purchased a 707 if it couldn't "barrel roll"? You just don't get it. "Ring times" are totally irrelevant to the overwhelming majority of those who are considering a sports/performance car purchase. These times matter to a very, very, tiny group of individuals.

[Rusty35]

Originally Posted by speedyman

Thank You! I couldn't have made my point in a better fashion. Would any airline have NOT purchased a 707 if it couldn't "barrel roll"? You just don't get it. "Ring times" are totally irrelevant to the overwhelming majority of those who are considering a sports/performance car purchase. These times matter to a very, very, tiny group of individuals.

A very very tiny group of people are buying ZL1's

[90503]

If someone doesn't care about track times, that's fine....They don't need to know about something they don't want to spend the time to understand, even after it's been explained to them....

But someone who does take an interest in the 'Ring times, is even more disinterested in listening to someone who doesn't care about them....

[speedyman]

Originally Posted by 90503

If someone doesn't care about track times, that's fine....They don't need to know about something they don't want to spend the time to understand, even after it's been explained to them....

But someone who does take an interest in the 'Ring times, is even more disinterested in listening to someone who doesn't care about them....

I find Ring times interesting to some degree but sharply disagree with anyone who feels that large numbers of performance enthusiasts base their purchases on what car X, Y, or Z does at the Ring. That is my point. There are some who see these Ring times as a to be all, end all, metric and that they are clearly NOT.

[Rusty35]

Originally Posted by speedyman

I find Ring times interesting to some degree but sharply disagree with anyone who feels that large numbers of performance enthusiasts base their purchases on what car X, Y, or Z does at the Ring. That is my point. There are some who see these Ring times as a to be all, end all, metric and that they are clearly NOT.

Who are the ones that see the Ring time as a to be all end all metric?

There are plenty of people who buy cars simply of the advertised numbers.

[speedyman]

Originally Posted by Rusty35

Who are the ones that see the Ring time as a to be all end all metric?

There are plenty of people who buy cars simply of the advertised numbers.

I agree with that in regard to 0-60 and 1/4 mile. I get a near gut busting laugh at the guys who think that they are going to feel a difference in their world with a vehicle that is plus or minus ten seconds on the "Ring". Who here is going to feel a 1 or 2 per cent difference in "Ring" time? NO ONE! This is a classic example of how some statistics can be grossly overstated.