6.2L shame or not.

[Hilflos]

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

Don't waste any time worrying over blind fanboy opinions. There will always be those who put down what's different from theirs, and there isn't a whole lot you can do about that.

Quoted for emphasis.

Have found the thread that's resulted entertaining and educational, though, ultimately, I come down on the issue as one of, "different tools to accomplish the same, or similar, purposes."

There are merits and detriments to either design. Given all the various parameters which have been discussed in this thread, each manufacturer has chosen the design which works best for them, given their current environment.

Additionally, outside an engine dyno, total vehicle platform has to be considered. To put it another way, given a 2015 SS, a 2015 GT, right off the showroom floors, and ten grand to dedicate toward mods, while the specific mods might differ, would the end result be substantially so?

If the goal was a drag car, and the cars were driven by the same driver, would the ET's, 60's, RT's be that different? If the end goal was a road course, or autocross car, would the lap times be dramatically different? Averaged out over ten laps or passes per vehicle?

From there, it all get kind of subjective, I think. No right or wrong answers, just differing opinions and approaches.

I'm willing to bet you could get the engineers that have designed either motor into a room, get them debating the merits of either approach, what they would have done differently given an unlimited budget, and there still wouldn't be a definitive better or worse decision.

Would be fun to listen to though.

[Norm Peterson]

<sigh>

The fanboy arguments aren't coming from just one side of the street


Norm

[SpeedIsLife]

Originally Posted by 102SS

Ask them( The 5Bros)how they like putting on a set of headers in their driveway or doing a cam swap themselves.

The LS engines are affordable,reliable,powerful and easily modified by mechanically inclined owners in their own garage.

There is a reason LS engines are the most swapped current engine available.

So explain something to me...in terms of cam swaps...

With the Coyote you have to pull the intake manifold, front timing cover, dismount the phasers/timing chains (but not pull them, just wedge them out of the way) remove the cams, line up the new cams, install them, replace everything.

With a L99/AFM car..if you want to run an aggressive cam you have to delete AFM..which involves pulling the heads and replacing the lifters in addition to all the work of doing the cam swap.

Unless you're already a LS3 or only want to run a very mild cam (under .500 lift)..how is a Coyote more difficult than a L99?

[essess]

Dont believe you have to pull intake on a coyote. I know on the old 4.6's you can wedge the chains and do the swap, not sure if its possible on the coyote. If it is, then timing cover also does not have to come off. Just valve covers pretty much

[DevilDawgSS]

I look at it this way. I have seen lots of Mustang built race cars running LS3's. I haven't seen Camaros running Coyote engines.

THE Last Post Winner

[jcampos]

Originally Posted by Jasper

When I first got my car I was feeling proud to have an LS3 which came from the mighty Vette. Sure it's huge and therefore sucks gas but I figured it was a great reliable engine. But i've been feeling a bit depressed as of late when reading people on other sites claiming how antiquated the engine is (pushrod) and how Ford is much better with the Coyote and only needing 5L to get similar power.

But I had a look at the fuel economy specs and the 6.2L engine betters Fords 5L in the city and falls only 1MPG short on Hiway. So then I thought, The old pushrod makes about the same power but consumes pretty much the same gas despite the extra 1.2L and is a physically a smaller engine. So is it really that bad? Then there's the added perks of it being easier to work on, less moving parts etc.

I know the future is direct inject and VVT but I guess for now, I'm not really that displeased with the LS3 after all.

J

Get repair(s) quotes, mod quotes, and first hand experiences from others. Ford makes a great 5L motor. But until you work on it and price stuff you will realize what a bitch it is. Put this into consideration, LS3 cam plus bolt-ons, relatively modest pricing (~roughly $1500-3500). 5L Coyote cam plus bolt-ons, really expensive (~roughly $3000-5000) due to the fact all parts you need to buy are doubles. Plus ford is just plain expensive.

My friend who has a 5L Rustang, dropped cams and bolt-ons here in SA, Texas he paid about $4,900 OTD. Here for an LS3 for the equivalent mods will pay maybe 3K. Do the math.

[essess]

The only thing thats a bitch on those motors is headers!! Cams are expensive but not needed!! Ls3 is the stump puller, Coyote is the top end screamer.

[ChocoTaco369]

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

<sigh>

The fanboy arguments aren't coming from just one side of the street


Norm

Feel free to take on my argument, especially considering I've been frequently defending the GT350/R from the fanboy arguments around here.

I say the LS3 is a vastly superior motor to the Coyote because it produces more torque, the same horsepower, weighs less, is physically smaller, is cheaper to manufacture, cheaper to modify and, if the LS platform is any indicator of longevity, will likely be more reliable. There is very little on paper that the Coyote can compete with versus the LS3. The Coyote is a letdown to me. Yes, it's a fine motor, but not compared to the LS3, or especially the LT1.

We can get subjective to make arguments. Maybe you like the sound of one better than the other? Personally, I think the old 4.6L GT's sounded better. The 5th Gen Mustangs and Camaros were a weird generation because for the first time ever I thought the Camaro sounded better than the Mustang. My old LS1 Firebird wasn't the best sounding car, so I just made it ridiculously loud with a dumped cutout after the headers to compensate. It sounded AWESOME, just not good. I'm routinely impressed by how much better this Camaro sounds even though the LS3 is very similar to the LS1. Different harmonics of the chassis, different cam, more displacement, true duals versus a y-pipe...made all the difference on Earth.

[ChocoTaco369]

Originally Posted by essess

The only thing thats a bitch on those motors is headers!! Cams are expensive but not needed!! Ls3 is the stump puller, Coyote is the top end screamer.

They both make the same peak power

[BlueN20Camaro]

Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369

Feel free to take on my argument, especially considering I've been frequently defending the GT350/R from the fanboy arguments around here.

I say the LS3 is a vastly superior motor to the Coyote because it produces more torque, the same horsepower, weighs less, is physically smaller, is cheaper to manufacture, cheaper to modify and, if the LS platform is any indicator of longevity, will likely be more reliable. There is very little on paper that the Coyote can compete with versus the LS3. The Coyote is a letdown to me. Yes, it's a fine motor, but not compared to the LS3, or especially the LT1.

We can get subjective to make arguments. Maybe you like the sound of one better than the other? Personally, I think the old 4.6L GT's sounded better. The 5th Gen Mustangs and Camaros were a weird generation because for the first time ever I thought the Camaro sounded better than the Mustang. My old LS1 Firebird wasn't the best sounding car, so I just made it ridiculously loud with a dumped cutout after the headers to compensate. It sounded AWESOME, just not good. I'm routinely impressed by how much better this Camaro sounds even though the LS3 is very similar to the LS1. Different harmonics of the chassis, different cam, more displacement, true duals versus a y-pipe...made all the difference on Earth.

Those 4.6 sound fantastic. LS3 idle is beautiful. Hard to choose.

[rontammy0]

Im a big fan.....great racing .

[GR8WHITE1]

Because my buddies 14 5.0 will never sound like my 1LE after I cammed it. I'll just leave this here! https://www.dropbox.com/s/wjluq6jcvi...13553.mp4?dl=0

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

[102SS]

Originally Posted by SpeedIsLife

So explain something to me...in terms of cam swaps...

With the Coyote you have to pull the intake manifold, front timing cover, dismount the phasers/timing chains (but not pull them, just wedge them out of the way) remove the cams, line up the new cams, install them, replace everything.

With a L99/AFM car..if you want to run an aggressive cam you have to delete AFM..which involves pulling the heads and replacing the lifters in addition to all the work of doing the cam swap.

Unless you're already a LS3 or only want to run a very mild cam (under .500 lift)..how is a Coyote more difficult than a L99?

You make it sound so easy but you need to phase 4 cams or that engine is not going to run or run right.

[essess]

Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369

They both make the same peak power

Coyote makes peak like 700 or whatever rpms higher we all know its the top end motor here no disputing that.

No phasing the coyote cams cause of vct, vct does the phasing for you. Only phasing done is if vct is eliminated and adjustable sprockets are installed, but thats only on full blown race cars