[Doc]

Since the 6th Gen is done, and it would seem we didn’t do too bad a job guessing what the team was going to do style-wise, it shows we’re all on the same page of thinking for the Camaro. I’m certain the Camaro team is already starting discussion on the Gen7; and at this early stage I think it might be fun if we could start putting in our thoughts and ideas in case they might be of some help. My only request is that we keep our comments/thoughts/suggestions positive. Don’t complain about what they’ve done, did in the past, didn’t do, etc. Keep the discussion forward-looking and positive about what they can and could do with the next generation Camaro.

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Before we enter into this exercise I think it might be beneficial to lay down some definitions so everyone who participates can avoid confusing terms.

First. A sports car. Sports cars were primarily 2-seaters that generally (but not always) were open-top convertibles. As such they were light-weight and intended to be strictly for driving performance and motoring pleasure. They tended to require more attention more often from the owner for maintenance and repairs than regular cars. They offered more than just straight line performance; they also performed well in the curves and on corners. They had better brakes. Those abilities required generally higher levels of engineering and construction so they tended to be somewhat expensive to buy and own; especially the higher-performance foreign cars.

Second. Pony cars. When Ford came out with the Mustang in 1964 it was billed as a pony car. It was based on a passenger car chassis but jazzed up with a sportier style body. It wasn’t a sports car; it had rear seats but they were smaller than the fronts unlike standard passenger cars of the day. It didn’t have lots of power so it was considered “sporty” rather than a true sports car, but it also didn’t have the higher price tag. It sold like hotcakes. Chevrolet responded with the Camaro a few years later but it too was a pony car; not a sports car. The Corvette was their sports car.

Third. A muscle car. Back in the 60’s when the term was originated, a muscle car was simply a large, heavy passenger car that had a big block V8. It did one thing; it went fast in a straight line. High-performance sports cars gained their performance through a combination of engineering, design, construction, high-revving (expensive) engines with manual transmissions that had more gears than the typical passenger cars did. All that cost money and put those type of cars out of range for the average driver/customer. By using a big block V8 with gobs of horsepower and torque which Detroit could make easily and fairly cheap, straight-line performance could be gained through the brute-force method of muscling their way forward with all that power; hence the term “muscle car”. They only went fast in a straight line; no cornering performance at all. Thus the whole idea of how important 1/4 mile performance was in defining performance since that was the only kind of performance available. It was also reasonably affordable to the masses so it quickly became popular. Ironically it also quickly became rather expensive in everyone’s quest to go faster and faster, but at least the entry-level costs were reasonable. What you did to your car after that was up to you and your budget.

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That brings us to today and this discussion. My thoughts are that the 7th Gen has to be a complete break from the past; no more retro. I love retro as much as anyone but it’s time to solidly move into the future.

The Camaro of today isn’t really a muscle car. It isn’t even a pony car anymore in the strict definition of the term. To be accurate, it’s a reasonably-priced, high to very high-performance sports GT. I say GT because it still has rear seats even though they aren’t all that practical; but they’re there. The muscle car era of big-block V8 passenger cars that only go fast in a straight line is long gone. The Camaro of today goes fast, stops fast, corners fast. It isn’t just sporty…it’s a flat-out fantastic sports GT.

SO that leads us to the 7th Generation of Camaro. To me it has to be truly revolutionary. It has to break away from the past and move solidly into the future. I don’t want to see me-too trend-of-the-day styling that quickly becomes tomorrow’s “dated” look. When the 5th Gen car debuted, it looked like NOTHING ELSE on the road. The 7th Gen needs to have that kind of presence. Forget what Ford or anybody else is doing. Lead….don’t follow. Make a great Camaro. The team is already thinking like that under the sheet metal; they need to extend that boldness to the outside.

Avoid gimmicky styling just for the sake of being gimmicky or “edgy”…make a Great Camaro. Think like you did when changing the style and angle of the grille vanes; form following function. Use the latest and greatest materials and technology, but use it in a way that is logical and makes sense. Don’t do something bizarre styling-wise just because a new material or tech allows it; do it because it serves a function that improves performance…make a GREAT CAMARO.

Speaking for myself (and everyone is invited to chip in to this conversation) I would like to see increased outward visibility for the driver and all passengers; no more high sill sides with bunker-view cabins. C-pillar shapes need to improve driver visibility as much as possible; new stronger, light-weight materials can make this possible. Reduce unsprung weight as much as possible; put the money into those areas instead of gimmicky styling. I know none of that shows as it’s all under the skin but it matters. Performance matters.

When you sit in the car and start the engine, the sound matters. When you put the car in gear and step on the gas, the speed of response and acceleration matters. When you turn the wheel to go around a curve or corner, the way the car feels and handles that… it matters. Reducing unsprung weight, especially rolling weight makes a huge impact on just about all aspects of performance. A 1-piece driveshaft is lighter and provides better performance than standard factory 2-piece shafts; put in the development dollars and make that a priority over some styling gimmick.

Great style doesn’t have to be expensive; a beautiful form-follows-function body can be designed in the same amount of time a me-too gimmicky-trendy body can. Don’t worry about where the puck is going; get the puck out of there… this isn’t ice hockey. Forget what you saw in design college. Don’t think out of the box; abandon the box altogether. Make a great Camaro.

Since we have a few months of boredom to deal with while waiting for Gen6 production cars to become available…let’s keep the interest flowing by putting in our 2 cents (or buck-and-a-half in my case lol) and who knows…maybe one of our thoughts/ideas/suggestions will spark a line of thought that helps the team bring to life our dream 7th Gen Camaro!

What do we want the 7th Gen Camaro to be?

[PalmerGA]

Originally Posted by Doc

Since we have a few months of boredom to deal with while waiting for Gen6 production cars to become available…let’s keep the interest flowing by putting in our 2 cents (or buck-and-a-half in my case lol) and who knows…maybe one of our thoughts/ideas/suggestions will spark a line of thought that helps the team bring to life our dream 7th Gen Camaro!

What do we want the 7th Gen Camaro to be?

Sounds like fun, but I think I'll wait and see what all the 6th Gen has to offer before thinking about a 7th.

[LilAndyG23]

This is great and I agree. I love the 5th and now 6th gens( even though it is t out). But the evolutionary trick gm does starts to get old, it will only work for so many years. Especially when talking about the camaro. It may work for an impala or a pick up truck, but it's an American icon! I also agree outward visibility should be too notch, I think any sports car or performance car should have great visibility all the way around, or close to it. I'd like to see a camaro in the 3500-3600 lb range. Which is obviously extreme, but the gen 4 camaro was there, and so was every other camaro before that. I think the gen 6 is a step in the right direction and will be the best camaro ever, but the debut of the gen 5 was so epic, and I'd love to see that same response to any new camaro revealed. Society likes to generalize and stereotype, and once they believe something that's what they stick with. So when they see a evolutionary design they think neat, but it lacks the long term wow factor. And as for interior features, 7 years from now is a long time regarding technology so I don't know what I want to see, other than superb materials and quality. Nothing like the gm of the late 90's thru 2007. It hurt me, but now gm and Chevy are leading the way for american auto manufacturers.

[Number 3]

Think 2022. Seems scifi like but that's when Gen 7 rolls out.

[Number 3]

Also keep in mind 2025 CAFE will be a much bigger influence on powertrain and content. Although 54.5 isn't necessarily the number for the Camaro, it will be much, much higher than the number we will see soon for the Gen 6.

[HuJass]

My guess is that the Camaro team is not thinking about the 7th gen but more about the 6th gen MCE.

[Doc]

Well I'm guessing since the 7th Gen will need to be a complete non-retro styling product, they'll be starting on it early in every way. If they intend to use new technologies that they haven't used before, that too needs early consideration for both the car and manufacturing processes.

Of course they're already looking at what they'll be doing to add whatever performance models they haven't announced yet for the 6th gen, but I can't imagine any company that makes a product as complicated and involved as an automobile that has to comply with new upcoming regulations, isn't already thinking and discussing what they're going to do next. Even if it won't roll out for 6 or 7 years. The more sophisticated and complicated a product, the more lead time required to create it. It isn't at all uncommon for there to be 5 year lead times on projects now days.

That plus it's obvious that the Camaro team are true enthusiasts. They were restricted on styling by the need to be evolutionary instead of revolutionary, but now that restriction is off.

I've been reading various threads on the forum and it's apparent with the many "maybe it'll grow on me" comments about the 6th gen styling, that while good (to me anyways), it doesn't have the same impact that the 5th gen did when it was unveiled. It couldn't really...since it had to be evolutionary; we've already seen the basic shape. Where they clearly put a tremendous amount of focus on was under the sheet metal, which is great. All of that hard work on the foundation is absolutely necessary but just not as glamorous as the body because that's what people see; that's what gives everyone their first impression. With the styling limitations now off, you know they have to be letting their imaginations run wild as to where they can go now. Any true designer always has pages of ideas in addition to those that were "required" for a job.

The time to influence the team (if anyone cares to) is now at the early beginning stages. Maybe that doesn't interest anyone here? Too soon for everyone?

[classicrockr]

It must be said, that the "bunker cabin" ain't a big deal. Simply ADJUST the MIRRORS PROPERLY, and you can eliminate the blind spots.

I LOVE the way the Camaro "cabin " is set up. SO tired of hearing people whine about this.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by classicrockr

It must be said, that the "bunker cabin" ain't a big deal. Simply ADJUST the MIRRORS PROPERLY, and you can eliminate the blind spots.

I LOVE the way the Camaro "cabin " is set up. SO tired of hearing people whine about this.

It's not whining. It's pointing out a major deficiency in the 5th Gen that wasn't addressed with the 6th. That, good sir, is a fact.

Can you get used to it? Overcome it? Yes. But in a truly great car you shouldn't have to.

[classicrockr]

Originally Posted by Number 3

It's not whining. It's pointing out a major deficiency in the 5th Gen that wasn't addressed with the 6th. That, good sir, is a fact.

Can you get used to it? Overcome it? Yes. But in a truly great car you shouldn't have to.

A lot of us DONT consider it a "deficiency", so it is NOT a " fact"

[Banshee]

GM will have a full 9 model years before CAFE comes into play for 2025. That would mean either 9 full years of a 6th gen...or a split based on sales figures. I'd fathom a guess that the 6th gen will be 4 years tops with gearing up, tinkering and gradually phasing in of CAFE (weight, powertrains, materials) as to reduce a shock factor in 25 with a plop down...this is the Camaro. I forsee gradual big changes over the next 9 model years....and heck..I would even stretch to say possibly 3 model refreshes with the last being in 2023.

2016 to 2019 you've covered the 50th anniversary of Camaro and of Z/28 to 2019 anniversary of ZL1.

2019 to 2023 gradual changes in weight, powertrains, material and aesthetics. A general refresh..still 6th gen. Don't rule out 7th gen earlier.

2023 to 2024 7th gen refresh..aggressive changes to comply with CAFE standards.


GM has done well with engine tech and fuel mileage so I don't forsee a "that's the new Camaro?" Where people don't recognize it at all. GM will answer with great tech and meet that standard with V8's still available....even in 2025. I forsee a V8 at 400 plus hp getting 30 to 32 combined mpg by 2025. A V8 may come at a price such as the Z/28 and ZL1 with the guzzler tax...if CAFE has such a provision within its language...but I believe X amount of cars must achieve X fuel mileage. Therefore..if you want a V8..they may either be limited production or come with a hefty purchase "sin tax".

I don't forsee the Corvette EVER having a V6, I6 or turbo 4....so..GM will keep the vette pure at the expense of smaller better engines in their Silverado line (4.3) making the rest of the fleet across the board lighter. Camaro may suffer some in 25...but that's pure speculation.

[90503]

2022...2025.....Not that far off....2016 is the first year of these new GenIV engines....My guess is they will continue on past 2022/2025....

As to what will happen with the Camaro, we shouldn't be too surprised....Supercharging, turbo-charging, composites and lightweight materials will progress through many years ahead....

I would simply look to Caddy and Corvette changes and offerings in the years ahead to see what the Camaro will be doing....All good...don't think it's all doom and gloom....

...Expect good things...

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by Banshee

GM will have a full 9 model years before CAFE comes into play for 2025. That would mean either 9 full years of a 6th gen...or a split based on sales figures. I'd fathom a guess that the 6th gen will be 4 years tops with gearing up, tinkering and gradually phasing in of CAFE (weight, powertrains, materials) as to reduce a shock factor in 25 with a plop down...this is the Camaro. I forsee gradual big changes over the next 9 model years....and heck..I would even stretch to say possibly 3 model refreshes with the last being in 2023.

2016 to 2019 you've covered the 50th anniversary of Camaro and of Z/28 to 2019 anniversary of ZL1.

2019 to 2023 gradual changes in weight, powertrains, material and aesthetics. A general refresh..still 6th gen. Don't rule out 7th gen earlier.

2023 to 2024 7th gen refresh..aggressive changes to comply with CAFE standards.


GM has done well with engine tech and fuel mileage so I don't forsee a "that's the new Camaro?" Where people don't recognize it at all. GM will answer with great tech and meet that standard with V8's still available....even in 2025. I forsee a V8 at 400 plus hp getting 30 to 32 combined mpg by 2025. A V8 may come at a price such as the Z/28 and ZL1 with the guzzler tax...if CAFE has such a provision within its language...but I believe X amount of cars must achieve X fuel mileage. Therefore..if you want a V8..they may either be limited production or come with a hefty purchase "sin tax".

I don't forsee the Corvette EVER having a V6, I6 or turbo 4....so..GM will keep the vette pure at the expense of smaller better engines in their Silverado line (4.3) making the rest of the fleet across the board lighter. Camaro may suffer some in 25...but that's pure speculation.

Keep in mind the Corvette has to get something like 45 mpg in 2025. Not sure how pure they can keep it.

[motorhead]

Looks like all the fun will be coming to an end for the average person. Who knows the gen7 car could be powered by something other then gasoline. I love Doc's first post to start this thread. Very nicely done.