This is how Chevy treats my $45,000 "track ready" car

[KaBoom1701]

Originally Posted by backeddy

That's a good question, but I feel the issue is most likely the master cylinder or the slave, it only happens under high heat/high stress in my case. I flush and fill with 600 before every track event and have always had the issue. The problem is that many owners have the same exact issue under street conditions, some with only 1200 miles on the car. Mine is not to the point of not having a clutch pedal fail to return, but I was trying to be proactive and fix it before then. I was upfront an honest with GM about the issue and they ended up using that against me. I guess you have to lie to get service from them...Sad.

All of you idiots saying "pay to play" etc. I get that, but not when it happened THE VERY FIRST HIGH SPEED SHIFT, do you get that? The first one...not the 10th or the 30th, The VERY FIRST ONE. That is not MY PROBLEM, that is a DESIGN PROBLEM. Period.

Originally Posted by Todd in Vancouver

Just to comment on this. The ZL1 is promoted as a track ready car with track warranty and part of the reason for the 4,100lbs was to upgrade the car to take the beatings it is built for. Being a track capable car is not the same as a track built car which is why the vast price discrepancy. I do get it when the 1LE guys see these cars as being ready and because they are damn fast.

But lets be honest here, a ZL has roughly 1/3 of the car exclusive to handle the beatings and the 1LE is an SS with an option package. Yes you can AutoX and do some HPDE with it but if you are getting serious about chasing speed and time you either have to build up the car which will void the warranty or trade it to a tougher built version. Both mean more $$$.

Option 3 is keep your 1LE but know its limitations in stock form and enjoy it for what it has to offer. JMHO...

True, and all good points.

But my point is that the 1LE has basically the same clutch system as the ZL1 except the dual clutch the ZL1's have. This issue is happening because guys that driving using the "heel & toe" method are over heating their clutch and causing additional brake dust. The ZL1 dual clutch prevents this extra slipping of the clutch and therefore is creating less clutch dust. This is the main reason I'm guessing your not seeing this issue pop up on the ZL1's or Z/28 cars.

Someone in the ZL1 forums posted that the OEM ZL1 dual clutch is only $350. I'd be willing to bet if an 1LE owner upgraded their clutch to the ZL1 dual clutch system and does regular DOT 4 fluid swaps after each track event this issue will go away.

[backeddy]

No heel toe here, I have a foot injury. Also this problem has happened in brand new cars so the fluid change seems irrelevant in some cases.

But lets be honest here, a ZL has roughly 1/3 of the car exclusive to handle the beatings and the 1LE is an SS with an option package. Yes you can AutoX and do some HPDE with it but if you are getting serious about chasing speed and time you either have to build up the car which will void the warranty or trade it to a tougher built version. Both mean more $$$.

But lets be honest here, a ZL has roughly 1/3 of the car exclusive to handle the beatings and the 1LE is an SS with an option package. Yes you can AutoX and do some HPDE with it but if you are getting serious about chasing speed and time you either have to build up the car which will void the warranty or trade it to a tougher built version. Both mean more $$$.

The 1LE is plenty tough and it is A LOT more nimble than a ZL1 at Laguna Seca. I have driven a 2012 and 2013 ZL1 on the track and while I had higher terminal speeds, the time lost from the additional braking made for slower laps. In fact, the 2013 guy bought his car solely for track use and said my car was way quicker in the turns and that is where times are made. We traded for the whole day with a let it rip policy, so I assure you I did not take it easy, my best lap was 1:45xx which is 2 seconds slower than I have done in my car. The car is more stout, but it HAS to be due to the extra power, but stout does not always equal "better" in all cases. We all have great cars, but GM needs to step up customer service. Like I said in the beginning, my restaurant chain gives better service on $6 sandwiches....

[matt55]

All of you idiots saying "pay to play"


Really ?

[hcsi99]

Originally Posted by matt55

All of you idiots saying "pay to play"


Really ?

Every circumstance is going to be different. I look at a guy like X25 who is very serious about tracking his car, and has a lot of driving ability. To me it seems he is fully aware of the pay to play theory. A first time track day guy that does one or two track days a year with a car that is far more capable then him would be less likely to see a failure on track, and more likely to have no issues getting something taken care of by is dealer.
Now if that component keeps failing, the dealer can only due so much. Be prepared to pay to play. Same goes with maintenance on the car. If you want to track your car, and want it to stay reliable, you better be prepared to spend some $$ on maintenance. Lots of tires, lots of brake pads, lots of fluid changes.

[gajagfan]

Originally Posted by backeddy

I DD my car, it is my business car for my job, it has never seen high speed, high rpm shifts, on the street. Only one time did I do a 6000+rpm shift on the street and that was just a 1-2 to shut up a "my v6 mustang is as fast as your car" coworker. I did this with all nanny controls off, so he would shut the eff up, once and for all. I am 49 years old, my street racing days are long gone, I am just glad no one ever got hurt while being stupid. This car went directly to the shop from the track, the very first time it happened and this is where we are 3 months later after my dealer and GMCS wielded the "abuse" axe because there was rubber in my wheel wells. Do you get that? Rubber=Abused. I was honest with GM and this is what happened, in this case it would of paid to lie to them.....

I DD my car also, and am about the same age (48). I also agree about feeling very blessed that nothing bad happened when I look back at my younger days behind the wheel. That being said, our car gets a fair number of redline shifts each week (guessing somewhere around 10), and we are not street racing, and not really even breaking the law. On ramps and areas like that allow a person to go to red-line in first and second and still be under (or close enough) to the legal limit that I do not consider it a problem. I have not had any clutch situations, even when being a bit of an ass with no-lift-shifts from one to two, and two to three. I guess this supports that there was something wrong with your car right out of the box. I wish this had not happened to you. Hope it works out for the best.

[gajagfan]

Originally Posted by hcsi99

Every circumstance is going to be different. I look at a guy like X25 who is very serious about tracking his car, and has a lot of driving ability. To me it seems he is fully aware of the pay to play theory. A first time track day guy that does one or two track days a year with a car that is far more capable then him would be less likely to see a failure on track, and more likely to have no issues getting something taken care of by is dealer.
Now if that component keeps failing, the dealer can only due so much. Be prepared to pay to play. Same goes with maintenance on the car. If you want to track your car, and want it to stay reliable, you better be prepared to spend some $$ on maintenance. Lots of tires, lots of brake pads, lots of fluid changes.

Well said. Maybe the pay to play becomes obvious to those that have had failures because it is more "pay to be reliable". Nothing sucks more than trailering a car for multiple hours to have it break early into any event. You really only let that happen once or twice before you spend the money to prevent it from happening. The other funny aspect to me about having a toy car (and by toy I mean competition toy, not show toy) is those that use their toy as a daily driver. Its usually not long into that approach that getting to work on Monday becomes a challenge.

[Iroc Drew]

Originally Posted by Todd in Vancouver

Just to comment on this. The ZL1 is promoted as a track ready car with track warranty and part of the reason for the 4,100lbs was to upgrade the car to take the beatings it is built for. Being a track capable car is not the same as a track built car which is why the vast price discrepancy. I do get it when the 1LE guys see these cars as being ready and because they are damn fast.

But lets be honest here, a ZL has roughly 1/3 of the car exclusive to handle the beatings and the 1LE is an SS with an option package. Yes you can AutoX and do some HPDE with it but if you are getting serious about chasing speed and time you either have to build up the car which will void the warranty or trade it to a tougher built version. Both mean more $$$.

Option 3 is keep your 1LE but know its limitations in stock form and enjoy it for what it has to offer. JMHO...

Great point. My 1LE will never see the track and that's fine by me. I just wanted a Bad-Ass looking Camaro for the street.

[mark1]

Originally Posted by Todd in Vancouver

Just to comment on this. The ZL1 is promoted as a track ready car with track warranty and part of the reason for the 4,100lbs was to upgrade the car to take the beatings it is built for. Being a track capable car is not the same as a track built car which is why the vast price discrepancy. I do get it when the 1LE guys see these cars as being ready and because they are damn fast.

But lets be honest here, a ZL has roughly 1/3 of the car exclusive to handle the beatings and the 1LE is an SS with an option package. Yes you can AutoX and do some HPDE with it but if you are getting serious about chasing speed and time you either have to build up the car which will void the warranty or trade it to a tougher built version. Both mean more $$$.

Option 3 is keep your 1LE but know its limitations in stock form and enjoy it for what it has to offer. JMHO...

Would love to see a copy of your "track Warranty".

[ForcFed93]

Originally Posted by backeddy

Do you get that? Rubber=Abused.

Do you not get that you bought a car with a warranty that was spelled out, in plain English?

Do you not get that you violated the terms of that warranty and as such, voided it?

Design problem or not, you voluntarily chose to track your car, you voluntarily chose to void the warranty.

You've done nothing but sit there and insult and speak condescendingly toward everyone who hasn't agreed with you. Maybe had you bothered to read the details of your warranty, you wouldn't have thrown as big of a fit about being denied after the fact.

[gajagfan]

Originally Posted by ForcFed93

Do you not get that you bought a car with a warranty that was spelled out, in plain English?

Do you not get that you violated the terms of that warranty and as such, voided it?

Design problem or not, you voluntarily chose to track your car, you voluntarily chose to void the warranty.

You've done nothing but sit there and insult and speak condescendingly toward everyone who hasn't agreed with you. Maybe had you bothered to read the details of your warranty, you wouldn't have thrown as big of a fit about being denied after the fact.

And I hate to say this, but it could be this attitude that has led to the dealer not being so interested in helping out. Not saying this to piss anyone off, just as a possible life lesson.

[ForcFed93]

Originally Posted by KaBoom1701

Someone in the ZL1 forums posted that the OEM ZL1 dual clutch is only $350. I'd be willing to bet if an 1LE owner upgraded their clutch to the ZL1 dual clutch system and does regular DOT 4 fluid swaps after each track event this issue will go away.

Just FYI, the ZL1 does not have a dual clutch system. It has a twin-disk clutch, which is much different than a dual clutch system.

Also, it will not mate to an LS3 as the LSA has an 8-bolt crank whereas the LS3 has a 6 bolt crank, so that's not even an option.

[hcsi99]

[backeddy]

Great point. My 1LE will never see the track and that's fine by me. I just wanted a Bad-Ass looking Camaro for the street.

Which is what the vast majority of owners do!

Did I call some of you idiots, yep. If you think it is OK that a BRAND NEW car grinds on every 2-3 high load shift, you are in fact an idiot in my eyes. Once again, this happened the very first time the car was under the circumstances, which once again, can only happen on a track (due to speed limits) legally.

Let me change this argument, now the problem is a grind every time you go to put it in first gear at idle..every time. It happened at the stop sign leaving the dealer, would you turn around and take the car in and demand it be fixed? I'll bet every single one of you would. ALL OF YOU. So why is mine any different? Just because it only happens under track conditions is irrelevant, it's not happening BECAUSE of the track, just at it, because my job depends on not braking traffic laws.

[backeddy]

I am not trying to be insulting or condescending, I have been nothing but nice and respectful to everyone (including the dealer and GMCS, that only changed when the "abuse" thing started), I am only fighting fire with fire. If you call me an idiot, you have all the right in the world to do so, but remember that is a 2 way street my friends and maybe you ought to put yourself in my shoes and also actually read what the problem is VS assuming what yoy "think" happened.