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Old 05-06-2013, 02:20 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by DRKnightSS1 View Post
Pretty clever coffee story I must admit. It's cute. I have owned a vehicle in the past that had a turbo so I am quite aware of their capabilities. But we aren't talking about aftermarket mods here just factory setup. If I wanted to beat every Joe Shmoe on the road it'd be a V8 forcefed monster not a TT'd V6.

And I was simply stating that the sound factor is just a small reason why a V8 suits a Camaro better or any muscle car for that matter. I've heard plenty of turbocharged V6 Camaros and the sound is like a lawnmower on roids. Not desirable whatsoever.

If I didn't know better I would say you were a V6 owner? Bottom line, GM will never produce a Camaro with that setup, period.

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Never say Never ... GM also said they would Never use the Camaro in NASCAR, look how that turned out.

I think it could be used in the future, based on a gas guzzler tax. If the power of the TTV6 were close to the V8, with better fuel economy it could be a big seller. But then again, we really don't know where the tax situation will be at that point.
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Old 05-06-2013, 02:57 PM   #44
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Never say Never ... GM also said they would Never use the Camaro in NASCAR, look how that turned out.

I think it could be used in the future, based on a gas guzzler tax. If the power of the TTV6 were close to the V8, with better fuel economy it could be a big seller. But then again, we really don't know where the tax situation will be at that point.
You're right I shouldn't say never because crazier and more stupid things have happened in the past. But, I'm really hoping they don't. And from a logical standpoint, it really makes no sense for GM to offer a V6 version of the Camaro that's comparible in HP with the V8 assuming they switch out the LS3 in favor of the LS7 like I've read.

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Old 05-06-2013, 04:28 PM   #45
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It may not be a regular production option...I'm thinking more along the lines of a special edition. Think about it. Every year the Camaro gets numerous "Special Editions" that run for a limited time.

2010 had the Synergy Green, Indy Pace Car, and Transformers
2011 had the XM, Synergy Series, Neiman Marcus, and another Indy Pace Car
2012 had the Honor and Valor, 45th Anniversay, Transformers, and Synergy Sries
2013 has the Dusk and Hot Wheels

Don't you think it is conceivable to have a special edition with the TTV6?
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Old 05-06-2013, 04:53 PM   #46
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It may not be a regular production option...I'm thinking more along the lines of a special edition. Think about it. Every year the Camaro gets numerous "Special Editions" that run for a limited time.

2010 had the Synergy Green, Indy Pace Car, and Transformers
2011 had the XM, Synergy Series, Neiman Marcus, and another Indy Pace Car
2012 had the Honor and Valor, 45th Anniversay, Transformers, and Synergy Sries
2013 has the Dusk and Hot Wheels

Don't you think it is conceivable to have a special edition with the TTV6?
I never actually thought about that but it would make more sense if it came out as a special edition.

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Old 05-06-2013, 06:35 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Macky View Post
It may not be a regular production option...I'm thinking more along the lines of a special edition. Think about it. Every year the Camaro gets numerous "Special Editions" that run for a limited time.

2010 had the Synergy Green, Indy Pace Car, and Transformers
2011 had the XM, Synergy Series, Neiman Marcus, and another Indy Pace Car
2012 had the Honor and Valor, 45th Anniversay, Transformers, and Synergy Sries
2013 has the Dusk and Hot Wheels

Don't you think it is conceivable to have a special edition with the TTV6?
I can see GM putting the TTv6 in the euro cars and selling it as a special edition in the american cars later on, same with the V8 in europe.

Sell the TTV6 in europe for 2 years then sell a v8 option for a year with a little more hp. It would work both ways, Some want power with out caring about mpg and some can get power while still having mpg. Look at all the TT hondas out there that can get 400+ hp and still can manage 30+ mpg
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Old 05-06-2013, 08:21 PM   #48
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IMO, I think we tend to forget the current love affair with these V-8 supposed "muscle-cars" is a phenomenon that I don't think anybody expected to last as long as it has...But the V-8 engine, and all that goes with it, is not the wave of the future, unfortunately...Whatever all this European engine business is all about, it is firmly entrenched in the US already...The big V-8 is the exception, not the rule...
I think you're selling the V8 short. Sure, its not as common as it was 30 or 40 years ago, but it still has a niche that is bigger than most give it credit for. That it has lasted longer than anyone expected supports the notion that the demand is stronger than "anyone" thinks. Remember how much GM underestimated V8 demand just 4 years ago when the 5th gens went into production?

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The variety of available V-8 series engines that GM has been or currently is making, is getting smaller and smaller....The amount of technology and research that was necessary to put into the up-coming LT-1 V-8s is astounding....I think the day will come when what they can do and are willing to do with the V-8 will be here much sooner than later...
Again, you are not giving the V8 enough credit. You are making the small block V8 sound as if it is some kind of exotic specialty engine, when in fact, it is very much mainstream. Because of the huge number of truck sales, the small block V8 is one of the higher volume engine families GM sells, not one of the lower. If you want to see which engine sells in the lowest volume at GM, look at the TTV6.

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I think it could be used in the future, based on a gas guzzler tax. If the power of the TTV6 were close to the V8, with better fuel economy it could be a big seller. But then again, we really don't know where the tax situation will be at that point.
Except the TTV6 offers no efficiency advantage over the LT1 (If anything, the LT1 is marginally more efficient). GM's own engineers have said that publicly.
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Old 05-06-2013, 08:23 PM   #49
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I can see GM putting the TTv6 in the euro cars and selling it as a special edition in the american cars later on, same with the V8 in europe.

Sell the TTV6 in europe for 2 years then sell a v8 option for a year with a little more hp. It would work both ways, Some want power with out caring about mpg and some can get power while still having mpg. Look at all the TT hondas out there that can get 400+ hp and still can manage 30+ mpg
Name one factory Honda the puts out 400+hp.
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Old 05-06-2013, 08:25 PM   #50
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Maybe I'm the only one who feels this way, but who actually gives a damn about the tree hugging Europeans?! GM and Ford should be focused on America for their pony/muscle cars, not Europe. I can understand if they care about the Spark or Sonic in relation to the global economy, because those cars matter overseas. A Camaro is a rare car overseas, and they shouldn't ruin an American enthusiast's fun because Europe is worried about co2 and engine displacement
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Old 05-06-2013, 10:10 PM   #51
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I think you're selling the V8 short. Sure, its not as common as it was 30 or 40 years ago, but it still has a niche that is bigger than most give it credit for. That it has lasted longer than anyone expected supports the notion that the demand is stronger than "anyone" thinks. Remember how much GM underestimated V8 demand just 4 years ago when the 5th gens went into production?

Again, you are not giving the V8 enough credit. You are making the small block V8 sound as if it is some kind of exotic specialty engine, when in fact, it is very much mainstream. Because of the huge number of truck sales, the small block V8 is one of the higher volume engine families GM sells, not one of the lower. If you want to see which engine sells in the lowest volume at GM, look at the TTV6.
Oh, for sure they are great motors and have a demand to fill....Don't know all the particulars, but the LT-1s will all have AFM engineered into them...
If they didn't have to dance around all the regs and bs, the V-8 would live forever and never be out of style....but it's still not getting promoted as being "efficient" or desirable for better mpg....

The trucks may get a pass for the needed power with a V-8, as the profit margin for light trucks I believe is significantly higher than passenger cars...Other than the Vette, isn't the Camaro the only GM passenger car that comes with a V-8?...and even so, over half Camaro sales are V-6...

Sure they will always have a niche, and will be built for that...crate motors, warranty replacements, maintenance replacements, etc...but demand won't have V-8s showing up in Cruzes,Malibus or Impalas.....

All the pressures...CAFE, weight, even "perception" as a guzzler, will eventually be the demise of passenger car V-8s...
As I believe what you say, that V-6 turbos may not be as efficient in the real world of driving, but if it gets a higher number for mpg ratings on the rollers for the window sticker, they will get the nod for production...

...Not a perfect world, and not how I'd like to see things go, but I think the writing is on the wall....I always suggest to everyone, enjoy these V-8s for as long as you can while they are plentiful and relatively affordable.

I recall the GM engineers stating they would prefer to put a TTV6 into the Vettes....but it won't fly with the Vette buyers as long as a V-8 is available...How much longer that will be the case, is anybody's guess, especially given they would even consider doing it.....

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Old 05-06-2013, 10:15 PM   #52
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Well I'd like a V6 TT option.....
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Old 05-06-2013, 11:20 PM   #53
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I recall the GM engineers stating they would prefer to put a TTV6 into the Vettes....but it won't fly with the Vette buyers as long as a V-8 is available...How much longer that will be the case, is anybody's guess, especially given they would even consider doing it.....

Sorry about screwing up the quote with my posts...lol...they're in there somewhere...

I don't see why they would prefer a TTV6. As seen with the LF3, it duplicates the LS3 with the added issues of heat soak and the complexity of a TT set up.

This may be the last stand of the V8 engine as a common power plant but that is entirely due to government busy bodies forcing THEIR desires on the rest of us. Sure, some emissions regulations are good for us but making the regulations so stringent that companies have to invest huge amounts of money to meet them is entirely outside the bounds of what the government should be doing.

I prefer the V8 engine. I like the sound, the feel and the relative simplicity of it. It's nostalgic and iconic to American cars. If the government didn't force everyone to adopt outrageous mileage standards and let the companies develop the engines they wanted, I bet we would see some amazing V8s and other types coming out.
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Old 05-07-2013, 12:21 AM   #54
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Name one factory Honda the puts out 400+hp.
Never said factory. If it can be done aftermarket eventually it will be possible with manufacturing.
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Old 05-07-2013, 06:22 AM   #55
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Except the TTV6 offers no efficiency advantage over the LT1 (If anything, the LT1 is marginally more efficient). GM's own engineers have said that publicly.
I think you are reading a lot into the statement made by one guy about one car (the Stingray) to come up with this broad generalization. If not, can you provide the quote in full so we can all see?
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Old 05-07-2013, 06:44 AM   #56
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I think you are reading a lot into the statement made by one guy about one car (the Stingray) to come up with this broad generalization. If not, can you provide the quote in full so we can all see?
He's right though, look at the mileage numbers in the CTS vsport. It has very similar projected mileage to to the LT1. Therefore, the Vette engineers are correct, it wouldn't have any mileage advantages.
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