[PYROLYSIS]

Originally Posted by GretchenGotGrowl

I hope we see a V8 that is of the 5.0, 5.3 or 5.7 flavor as well. It would be a good engine for the Z28. Most of the rumors about a 5.3 or 5.7 seemed to die out when the 6.2 LT1 was announced, so I guess we just have to wait.

When reading about the C-7 it was said that the 6.2L was better fitted for AFM. The larger displacement allows you to stay in four cylinder mode longer cause of more available torque. I would like a smaller displacement V-8 as well but if they are stuck on having AFM in all V-8s then we may not see a smaller V-8.

[GretchenGotGrowl]

Originally Posted by PYROLYSIS

When reading about the C-7 it was said that the 6.2L was better fitted for AFM. The larger displacement allows you to stay in four cylinder mode longer cause of more available torque. I would like a smaller displacement V-8 as well but if they are stuck on having AFM in all V-8s then we may not see a smaller V-8.

I agree, but not sure the will need AFM in a smaller displacement V8 to achieve their fuel economy goals.

[KMPrenger]

Originally Posted by oklapike

....
c) It's my understanding (and I could well be wrong), that the gen V 5.3 is only going to be a truck engine (same with the new 4.3 V6). Of course, even if that's the case now, it could always change.

I agree with you, and as far as that 4.3 V6 goes, I'm sure it will be tuned for torque, rather than high rpm HP like the current Camaro 3.6 is.

But it has all the modern goodies now similar to the 3.6, so I suspect it should still make great HP. I'm going to guess HP in the 280 to 320 range and TQ in the 300 - 320 range.

[Bhobbs]

I don't understand the Z/28 as a base V8? If it is to compete with a GT, it would have to be in price as well. That would limit its performance and make the car not what people are wanting.

V6 as entry Camaro
SS as base V8 with LT1
Z/28 with a high performance NA LT engine
ZL1 with LT4.

[knitetrain05]

quite a bit of time to burn there boss..........

[wildpaws]

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

I don't understand the Z/28 as a base V8? If it is to compete with a GT, it would have to be in price as well. That would limit its performance and make the car not what people are wanting.

V6 as entry Camaro
SS as base V8 with LT1
Z/28 with a high performance NA LT engine
ZL1 with LT4.

You offer a much better solution than the co-mingling of SS and Z/28. Chevy went down that road once before and it should be left in the past.
Clyde

[wildpaws]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wyndham

Essentially, yes. But what's more - is all the systems are designed to work together in the SS performance package I've dreamed up. The electronic Driver's Mode Selection system adjusts settings for PTM, MR, Exhaust, among other things. The SS package makes the Z28 feel like a ZL1 minus the engine.


When I drew this all up...obviously, as nothing more than something fun to do...I discovered that with the introduction of the ZL1...things have gotten kind of screwy with Camaro names.

Because the ZL1 is so badass and out-of-this-world, I think Camaro NEEDS it...for status and bragging rights. But, then that means the Z28, and SS must share space, because neither are fit for a 4-cyl or V6 model...

And then...even in my dream world...I don't think there's room for two distinct performance levels in between a V6 and the ZL1. So...I figured a compromise is to include them both.

Z28 is the mainstream Camaro sports car in my lineup: and excellent in every way...a lighter, more powerful and dialed-in version of the current SS. With the theoretical performance package...it becomes "Super" sporty because of the way all the added systems will be able to work together like they do on the ZL1 model.

Even in dream world....there didn't seem to be an easy, semi-realistic answer to the Z28/SS debate...

While that explanation may make sense to you and some others, I think combining SS and Z/28 is a complete fail that has been tried before and should be left in the past to slowly fade away. But then, that's just my opinion, it sounds like you and perhaps others feel differently.
Clyde

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by knitetrain05

quite a bit of time to burn there boss..........

You're not kidding...

Originally Posted by wildpaws

You offer a much better solution than the co-mingling of SS and Z/28. Chevy went down that road once before and it should be left in the past.
Clyde

Originally Posted by wildpaws

While that explanation may make sense to you and some others, I think combining SS and Z/28 is a complete fail that has been tried before and should be left in the past to slowly fade away. But then, that's just my opinion, it sounds like you and perhaps others feel differently.
Clyde

I would prefer to have all trim levels each with their own special engine...I agree with you, actually.

Even though it was my "dream list", I tried anchoring it in the real constraints I thought Chevy might be subject to...and that resulted in either the full-on Z28 or SS being cut from my list. I like them both...but I like Z28 better...so that led to the guesstimate I arrived at, an impressive Z28 model with a truly potent SS package.

Like I said - I like where your head is at...but as soon as the ZL1 was added into the mix, I think things got screwy with trim levels. Because of this...I almost left model names off of the list. But then we might not have this conversation, which I'm enjoying.

[PYROLYSIS]

My dream sixth gen lineup.

Camaro 1LT- 330 HP/318 lbs. TQ NA V-6 24/32 MPG
standard steelie wheels, mylink- MSRP-$23,500
2LT adds leather, HUD, upgraded wheels (different from RS wheels), upgraded audio etc.- MSRP- $27,000

Camaro 1RS- 385 HP/410 lbs. TQ 5.3L V-8 21/29 MPG
unique wheels, hood, and spoiler standard- MSRP- $31,000
2RS adds leather, HUD, upgraded audio- MSRP- $34,000

*note* LT and RS models use same 6-speed auto or manual trans (no charge for auto in these models)

Camaro Z28- 462 HP/ 450 lbs. TQ 6.2L LT1 18/27 MPG
7 speed TREMEC standard, auto trans $1300 upgrade
standard leather seats (cloth available for $750 discount), painted rally stripes (stripe delete $900 discount), forced induction/heat extracting hood, brake cooling vents in front of rear wheels- MSRP- $38,900

1LE performance package(available on LT, RS, and Z28)
MR shocks, upgraded sways and bushings, 3:91 rear gears, trans and differential cooler, PTM similar to Stingray, electronic limited slip from Stingray, dry sump oiling, Good Year Super Car F1 gen 3 tires, 6 piston Brembos for RS and Z28, 4 piston Brembos for LT, 1LE package doesn't change wheels except for giving them a black finish- MSRP -$4800

ZL1- 620HP/660 lbs. TQ supercharged LT4 15/21 MPG
all equipment from Z28 with 1LE with substantially different body work, unique wheels/tires


stand alone options:

Vert available on all models, removable roof panel-MSRP- $1200, Vinyl rally stripes-MSRP- $500, NPP exhaust-MSRP- $900

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by PYROLYSIS

My dream sixth gen lineup.

Camaro 1LT- 330 HP/318 lbs. TQ NA V-6 24/32 MPG
standard steelie wheels, mylink- MSRP-$23,500
2LT adds leather, HUD, upgraded wheels (different from RS wheels), upgraded audio etc.- MSRP- $27,000

Camaro 1RS- 385 HP/410 lbs. TQ 5.3L V-8 21/29 MPG
unique wheels, hood, and spoiler standard- MSRP- $31,000
2RS adds leather, HUD, upgraded audio- MSRP- $34,000

*note* LT and RS models use same 6-speed auto or manual trans (no charge for auto in these models)

Camaro Z28- 462 HP/ 450 lbs. TQ 6.2L LT1 18/27 MPG
7 speed TREMEC standard, auto trans $1300 upgrade
standard leather seats (cloth available for $750 discount), painted rally stripes (stripe delete $900 discount), forced induction/heat extracting hood, brake cooling vents in front of rear wheels- MSRP- $38,900

1LE performance package(available on LT, RS, and Z28)
MR shocks, upgraded sways and bushings, 3:91 rear gears, trans and differential cooler, PTM similar to Stingray, electronic limited slip from Stingray, dry sump oiling, Good Year Super Car F1 gen 3 tires, 6 piston Brembos for RS and Z28, 4 piston Brembos for LT, 1LE package doesn't change wheels except for giving them a black finish- MSRP -$4800

ZL1- 620HP/660 lbs. TQ supercharged LT4 15/21 MPG
all equipment from Z28 with 1LE with substantially different body work, unique wheels/tires


stand alone options:

Vert available on all models, removable roof panel-MSRP- $1200, Vinyl rally stripes-MSRP- $500, NPP exhaust-MSRP- $900

Sign me up!

[Norm Peterson]

I can see your LS package working as-is. Feels like it would run about with my wife's Legacy 2.5GT, with crisper handling. That's plenty for folks who are primarily NOT buying for the performance, and there are plenty of those.

I see a problem with the 1LE and SS options growing out of Z28, which was itself traditionally an option. The question then becomes whether there is room enough for three distinct option packages arising out of a V8 LT version that I think makes more sense as owning the base V8 "handle".

Given that the V8 Mustangs go GT → Boss → Boss LS
. . . and that I feel there really needs to be a base V8 model for people who'd rather avoid any "boy-racer" image.
you'd be looking at V8 LT → Z28 → 1LE → SS with the level descriptions as given. I'd be shopping the 1LE here and would like to see adjustable dampers.
or perhaps V8 LT → Z28 → (1LE or SS) where the (1LE or SS) is where you get the MRC regardless of what you call it, but the Z28 would be spec'ed to your 1LE level. Make mine a Z28 with adjustable dampers.

Speaking of MRC, if it's part of a non-ZL1 package, I think it also needs to at least offer more than one program schedule and probably more than four if the car is intended to be competitive at the top levels of autocrossing. For those who might start swapping tires, springs and sta-bars for more serious use, perhaps user tuneability could at least be available.

To "decimate" the GT500 will require either more than 615/600 or a truly intensive lightening campaign to below 3500, as 615/600/3650 is barely keeping pace with the current GT500.


Norm

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

To "decimate" the GT500 will require either more than 615/600 or a truly intensive lightening campaign to below 3500, as 615/600/3650 is barely keeping pace with the current GT500.


Norm

I do not know what the next-gen GT500 has in store...but as it stands, the current ZL1 is the better buy of the two cars in nearly all aspects, unless you're drag racing. And since that was never the sole intent of the ZL1 - I figured on enough to just improve what formula they already have for the car.

I appreciate all of what you said about Z28/SS/1LE....with the importance of each nameplate...I found it nearly impossible to rectify them in the same car without creating what felt like a hundred trim levels...

[wildpaws]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wyndham

I do not know what the next-gen GT500 has in store...but as it stands, the current ZL1 is the better buy of the two cars in nearly all aspects, unless you're drag racing. And since that was never the sole intent of the ZL1 - I figured on enough to just improve what formula they already have for the car.

I appreciate all of what you said about Z28/SS/1LE....with the importance of each nameplate...I found it nearly impossible to rectify them in the same car without creating what felt like a hundred trim levels...

There is a much simpler solution, I don't think you really need a 1LE model on it's own. I think you only need 3 V8 models, SS, Z/28, ZL1, do an SS at 450hp, a Z/28 at 490 hp and a ZL1 at 525 hp. 1LE content would be on the Z/28.
Clyde

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wyndham

I do not know what the next-gen GT500 has in store...but as it stands, the current ZL1 is the better buy of the two cars in nearly all aspects, unless you're drag racing. And since that was never the sole intent of the ZL1 - I figured on enough to just improve what formula they already have for the car.

Understood.

I'm anything but a drag racer, but I think the perception between 3.7 and 3.5 seconds zero to 60 will be bigger than what the actual difference really amounts to, and that the bragging rights will matter to some. To others, under-estimating or underpreparing for the GT500 a second straight time wouldn't look good at all.

Never mind that most owners might never be able to match either number in 100% stock form or anywhere but on a prepped dragstrip, it's the perception that maybe they could . . .


Norm