[Chadicus]

Originally Posted by RobbyBeefcake87

*puts on tim foil hat*

Maybe there's an unspoken agreement between them and Ford. If the gt500 loses you spin a reason as to why, if not we won't loan you another car lol

A little far fetched, just like sending a car on shot (are well cooked shot or just not optimal?lol) to compete against it's rivals.

Let's be honest: If the ZLE showed up in track alignment and the 500 showed up with brand new Cup 2s would it have changed the outcome very much if any? I doubt it.

The ZLE handily beat the 500 at everything but roll racing. Just seems ridiculous to send a car with "well cooked" tires to a comparison test. Unless you know it will lose anyway so why bother?

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by Chadicus

Let's be honest: If the ZLE showed up in track alignment and the 500 showed up with brand new Cup 2s would it have changed the outcome very much if any? I doubt it.

The ZLE handily beat the 500 at everything but roll racing. Just seems ridiculous to send a car with "well cooked" tires to a comparison test. Unless you know it will lose anyway so why bother?

That's my thinking too.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by Chadicus

I watched the video and it seems like he noticed it right away. Which makes me suspicious as well. If both front and rear tires were cooked then why was it there? If this 500 was privately owned and had worn tires then I would think ok they are driving and enjoying it. (Which is what I originally thought).

If FORD sent a 500 for testing against a ZLE and a Redeye why send it with shit tires? Makes no sense. I don't want to suggest that it was a built in excuse for being slower but why? This was your flagship halo model CFTP 500. If a tire failed and Randy crashed that would have been disastrous. Doesn't seem worth it to me.

Which is why I said they should have sent it right back and mentioned the whole ordeal in the video.

Something you mentioned is something I touched on but to go further...if something happened and that car went off the road, would Ford have been liable for sending it in that condition? Would TH have been liable for allowing the testing to go on with the vehicle in that condition? Would RP, being a professional and knowing better, have been liable for operating the vehicle in that condition? Would the track owner have been liable for allowing that vehicle to be run on the track in that condition? I mean, at the drag strip they will inspect your vehicle before you run. I'm not sure what would happen if I arrived on well cooked tires. Is it the same at a circuit track or do you pay for the rental and they just wave you thru?

See, these are all smart guys. I doubt anyone in this day and age would put themself in such a potentially litigative situation. So it does sound a bit far-fetched that the tires were worn. It seems like someone was told "do not make us look bad". Again I still have the utmost respect for RP. But something doesn't sit right. Ford certainly has enough money to spare a new set of tires...

Originally Posted by vtirocz

I agree. This video was entertaining, but these guys (including Randy) lost some serious credibility with the tire excuse and then speculating the finish order at the track would certainly change if one car were on fresher tires. There was no attempt to provide some evidence to support that claim.

As mentioned above, they should have provided some data on all the cars tires tread depth (vs. new)j, general condition, and maybe some close-up photos. Not ensuring both cars were set to the manufacturer's alignment specs for track usage was another pretty big miss.

At the very least it is bad journalism. I personally would have rather seen them forego all the chummy jokes and comedy for something more detailed and informative. They basically made some statements and left it at that.

Originally Posted by RobbyBeefcake87

*puts on tin foil hat*

Maybe there's an unspoken agreement between them and Ford. If the gt500 loses you spin a reason as to why, if not we won't loan you another car lol

A little far fetched, just like sending a car on shot (are well cooked shot or just not optimal?lol) to compete against it's rivals.

I do feel that there are unspoken rules...like, if you say this or that then you'll be blacklisted...or like, you'll never work in this town again. Well maybe nothing that aggressive. But Ford could certainly pull strings and give these guys a hard time if they ever wanted to test another vehicle. These guys are upstarts so it would be easy to do that to them.

[Road Pressence]

If the times were that close with each other i have a hard time believing the tires were really that bad on the GT500. Also the non track alignment is pretty big on the Z and feel like it could have made a larger difference. I heard someone else mention Randy has actually driven a regular ZL1 on the same big willow and ran a 1:26xx so yeah...

[BlaqWhole]

I'm just glad that others are also pointing out this stuff. Usually I'm the only one and by now TreedYou would have been all over my case...and there would be like 7 new members joining from M6G to start shit with me for saying this stuff. So it feels good to know that others feel like something ain't quite right.

[Chadicus]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Which is why I said they should have sent it right back and mentioned the whole ordeal in the video.

Something you mentioned is something I touched on but to go further...if something happened and that car went off the road, would Ford have been liable for sending it in that condition? Would TH have been liable for allowing the testing to go on with the vehicle in that condition? Would RP, being a professional and knowing better, have been liable for operating the vehicle in that condition? Would the track owner have been liable for allowing that vehicle to be run on the track in that condition? I mean, at the drag strip they will inspect your vehicle before you run. I'm not sure what would happen if I arrived on well cooked tires. Is it the same at a circuit track or do you pay for the rental and they just wave you thru?

See, these are all smart guys. I doubt anyone in this day and age would put themself in such a potentially litigative situation. So it does sound a bit far-fetched that the tires were worn. It seems like someone was told "do not make us look bad". Again I still have the utmost respect for RP. But something doesn't sit right. Ford certainly has enough money to spare a new set of tires...
.

I dont know what the liability would be but that is a good question. I assume they all signed waivers to not hold the track responsible if something happened. I haven't ever borrowed a car for testing before but I would think Ford would want them signing waivers too.

The fact is that a CFTP got beat soundly by a ZLE with a street alignment on a track long enough to hit 150mph. Ford benchmarked the ZL1 against the 500 for 2 years. They should be embarrassed this was the best they could do.

[bradmo9]

Don’t think Ford is embarrassed at all about 5% cars will ever be tracked and they’ve selling cars well of msrp. Fords not hurting. Chevy is the one hurting having to sell cars at less than msrp. The way the zl1 performs should sell for at least msrp all day long.

Everyone keeps talking about the zl1 won in 1/4 but they show one drag race where the guy left a second later than everyone else. Guess everyone forgot about this video.
https://youtu.be/OkZWEq262Mo

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by bradmo9

Don’t think Ford is embarrassed at all about 5% cars will ever be tracked and they’ve selling cars well of msrp. Fords not hurting. Chevy is the one hurting having to sell cars at less than msrp. The way the zl1 performs should sell for at least msrp all day long.

Everyone keeps talking about the zl1 won in 1/4 but they show one drag race where the guy left a second later than everyone else. Guess everyone forgot about this video.
https://youtu.be/OkZWEq262Mo

Ok hurt feelings, in a debate on performance it kinda shows how far behind Ford is when their argument has to turn to sales. LOL!! How exactly is it a bad thing for the consumer when, for less than MSRP which was already $20K cheaper, we can get a car that beats the snot out of a $94K 760 HP GT500 that Ford spent the last 6 years building? Yea we all here are soo very upset that we're getting the best performance value of the decade at MSRP for less than MSRP. I just wish the ZL1 sold more and dealerships charged more for them and we had to pay MSRP and try to get a "golden ticket" to buy one. Woe is me...

And here is some salt for your wounds...that race was not based on time Sherlock. It was based on who could get from point A to point B the fastest. Remember how your buddy GSJ, before he got himself kicked outta here, kept insisting that on the streets the GT500 was gonna beat the ZL1? Well that was what that test was trying to replicate...exactly what would happen on the street. And the GT500 got beat. They raced again off the track but on what looked to be a service road of some sort. It looked like an abandoned street next to a highway. They raced both cars and the GT500 STILL lost.

In fact, the GT500 in this entire test won at nothing. The RE won the roll race, the ZL1 won the quarter mile distance race, the ZLE won around the track, the GT500 won at...being the most expensive...oh and making excuses.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by bradmo9

Guess everyone forgot about this video.
https://youtu.be/OkZWEq262Mo

Yes, the GT500 was 3 tenths of a second faster than the ZL1. Congrats for needing 760 HP to beat a 650 HP ZL1 by 3 tenths.

If you notice, the gay says that at a prepped strip the cars would go faster but the difference would probably stay the same. Hotlap pointed out months ago that the ZL1 has done 10.9 in private owner hands while the GT500 has gone 10.6. And he was right. Still 3 tenths. Another thing, in testing the ZL1 has gone as fast as 11.4 I believe. That is only a 1 tenth difference when comparing the best times of both cars. One tenth. Chew on that.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by Chadicus

I dont know what the liability would be but that is a good question. I assume they all signed waivers to not hold the track responsible if something happened. I haven't ever borrowed a car for testing before but I would think Ford would want them signing waivers too.

The fact is that a CFTP got beat soundly by a ZLE with a street alignment on a track long enough to hit 150mph. Ford benchmarked the ZL1 against the 500 for 2 years. They should be embarrassed this was the best they could do.

I'm no insurance expert. But from the little I know, a waiver does not absolve a person or entity of all liability. They still would have to do their part along with the rules and regulations and standard practices.

Example: I show up with a car and I sign a waiver. They inspect the car and send me off. During the run I brake too late or take a corner too fast or make some driver error and slam into a wall or another vehicle. The waiver would protect the track. Or let's say there is something that the track cannot possibly inspect and I, the driver, am unaware of...like a faulty electrical line or cracked fuel line or something. And the car has an issue and crashes. The track would not be at fault.

Now for another example, let's say I show up with tires that are worn and my car goes thru their inspection and they deem it safe. Let's say the tires were not safe and I crash. The waiver probably would not save the track. Because they still have a duty to ensure that the vehicle is safe and they failed in that respect.

Again I am no expert but I do know that even with signing waivers a track has the responsibility to ensure safety. Which is why they inspect your helmet, make you wear a fire suit, look for safety equipment if you go a certain speed, and they will remove you and/or ban you from the track if you are not in compliance regardless of the waiver. So they are still responsible.

So that is why I wonder if the tires were safe but just worn down or worn down a lot. Or if it was just an excuse and they didn't wanna find themselves on Ford's blacklist. But...this excuse has been used before. The Ford guys claimed that the R was on used tires when it went against the ZL1 back in 2017. So what the hell is up with Ford that they keep sending out their cars to these comparisons with allegedly used/worn tires? No other manufacturer has ever done this. This is the second time that Ford has done this. So are they just F-boys and run around doing dumb shit or are they purposely crippling the car so it won't actually be a loss or what?

For the record, the only time the GT500 has these tire issues is when it is up against the ZL1. Suspicious.

[Martinjlm]

In some aspects I think the tire thing is being overplayed. On the other hand, I think this may be saying some things about Cup 2 tires. Listen to what Randy says on the video. He says the tires are cooked. Yet he still drove on them, so I doubt “cooked” translates to “bald” or “unsafe”. Either of those two conditions and we’d have no video because he would not have driven it. He goes on to say that Cup 2 tires get their best times when they are brand new, after a couple warm up laps, then they trail off. I took this to mean that he knew he wasn’t gonna get the best time he could from the GT500 because the tires, though still safe were beyond the narrow band where they would deliver optimal performance.

So what does all this mean? It seems to me to mean that unless a CFTP is running on hours old Cup 2s, it’s a drivers race with a ZLE. Most likely, the mass on the CFTP accelerates the wear on Cup 2s, so again, the CFTP would be an absolute beast on fresh Cup 2s and then substantially slower after only a few laps. Think about the PP2 situation. Track star for a couple laps, until the lack of sufficient coolers kicks in. Now the CFTP seems to be setting up as a car with awesome cooling capability, but with short-lived tires.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by ST1LE

THIS^^

Even tying the ZLE is a blackeye for the $94K GT500 CFTP. Ford is just not willing to let the world see exactly what the buyer gets for the $18K package, because it would likely impact sales of that package negatively.

Only a fanboi would choose to pay $100K for peformance that is matched by a $74K car.

Randy chose the ZLE based on price, 'nuff said.

Randy said more than just price. The exact quote being.

RP: I’m a long time fan of Camaro and the Aplha platform ...and I’m cheap. What a value! I’d go Camaro.

Randy also bought a 1LE as his daily driver.


It’s now official. Al O and the Camaro team owned gen6. They sent Ford back to the drawing board.

This Al O quote from the 2014, as they were deep into design of gen6, says it all. Accomplished!

You know we read every Internet buzz about Mustang, and I'm sure they read everything about ours and everybody benefits because we're both trying to beat each other up on a daily basis and the ponycar customers win. Dave [Pericak, chief engineer of the Mustang] signed a poster of a Boss 302 Laguna Seca for me, "Al, Best Wishes, Dave Pericak." You can see it if you walk by my office, and I've written below it, "Keep them in the rearview mirror because they will try to overtake."

https://www.hotrod.com/articles/take...l-oppenheiser/

[Martinjlm]

Careful with that picture hotlap. It’s been used as Exhibit A that Randy Pobst is a paid GM shill.

[Rodan]

Originally Posted by bradmo9

Don’t think Ford is embarrassed at all about 5% cars will ever be tracked and they’ve selling cars well of msrp. Fords not hurting. Chevy is the one hurting having to sell cars at less than msrp. The way the zl1 performs should sell for at least msrp all day long.

Everyone keeps talking about the zl1 won in 1/4 but they show one drag race where the guy left a second later than everyone else. Guess everyone forgot about this video.
https://youtu.be/OkZWEq262Mo

I love how the sales trope comes rolling out when the excuses start. Next you'll be telling us about how bad the visibility is out of the Camaro.

"Tenths don't matter..." "nobody really tracks these cars..."