01-07-2020, 12:53 AM | #29 |
Drives: 2016 SS Convertible Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: California
Posts: 1,108
|
Well I’d rather have my 4X4 Colorado plus my SS than just a base C8
|
01-07-2020, 01:45 PM | #30 | |
Drives: 2011 Camaro 2LT/RS Black Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Ohio
Posts: 973
|
Quote:
Its because of the C8. https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/2...-configurator/ That happens to most last model year cars including used (i.e., I could get a used 2019 or a new model 2020 for a bit more...hmmmm). Here are the numbers: https://gmauthority.com/blog/gm/chev...sales-numbers/ Year Total 2019 - 17,988 2018 - 18,791 2017 - 25,079 2016 - 29,995 2015 - 33,329 2014 - 34,839 2013 - 17,291 The new 2019 sold 5% less than 2018. |
|
01-07-2020, 01:59 PM | #31 |
Retired from Car mfrs....
Drives: 2LT RS/HR-V Join Date: May 2013
Location: /Fort Lauderdale
Posts: 10,048
|
After owning two Camaros and a c7, I think the SmartMoney says you contract on a 2021, 6 months after they release. By then both GM and the market will shake out all the little anomalies/parts failures and you’ll be back to fair retail prices instead of inflated “ Market adjustment fee” crap…And probably get a better car to boot.
The big problem soon you’re going to get into a situation that is deadly for expensive cars, the situation known as lot rot”. from sitting out on the lot, the tires go, the paint gets scratched etc. etc. let alone the batteries probably been charged Erratically several times and gone flat… Six months is about the max you can sit on a lot unless you have a really good Dealer staff. |
01-07-2020, 06:09 PM | #32 |
fwiw, a friend just picked up a base C7 for $48K OTD with upgraded wheels at Criswell in MD. Such a beautiful car, love the C7
|
|
01-08-2020, 12:14 PM | #33 |
Drives: 2018 SS 1LE Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: North Jersey
Posts: 776
|
|
01-08-2020, 02:50 PM | #34 | |
Drives: 2019 Mustang GT Convertible Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Green Bay, WI
Posts: 182
|
Quote:
Many guys speak of prices but until you speak of discounts in "percent off" without tax, reg, doc fee or trade the prices discussed are pointless and useless. Here is how a basic deal should be looked at for a typical new 2019 Vette or Camaro; $60,000 MSRP $9,000 Dealer discount (15% off) $6,000 Manufacturer rebates (10% off) $45,000 Price paid plus tax, registration and doc fee (leave trade out) Now take the trade value off the $45,000 to see what real money you are getting. By the way, if you are not getting 25% off a 19 Vette or Camaro you are royally getting screwed and will lose you pooper in depreciation. Bear |
|
01-08-2020, 04:35 PM | #35 |
ace5.org
|
Sold my 2017 1LT Corvette with 10k miles August of 2018 for a ZL1. Thankfully I got right at $10k off sticker when I bought the Corvette new so I didn't get completely smoked on the trade.
Best decision I've ever made with a car purchase I believe...but had I owned a 3LT or GS I might not have pulled the trigger. I bet if I had a 2019 1LT with 10k and was trying to trade it in right now I'd get a lot less comparatively.
__________________
Stock...For Now.
|
01-08-2020, 05:34 PM | #36 | |
Drives: 17 Camaro SS 1LE & 16 Sierra AT CC Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Norman, OK
Posts: 2,424
|
Quote:
Not sure where you got your specs from, the 2019 C7 1LT weights 3525 and a 2019 Camaro SS 1SS weighs 3685. The Corvette is about 150lbs lighter than the Camaro SS 1ss. The Camaro SS 1ss 1LE weights a little over 3700lbs as a comparison. The 2019 C7 Grand Sport is listed at 3428lbs, almost a solid 300lbs lighter than the 1ss 1LE. Thats not taking into account the wider tires the C7GS comes with from the factory as well. The C7GS is the direct track competitor for the SS 1LE. The only place the 1ss 1LE is better is price, it is almost $20k cheaper than a similarly equipped C7GS 1LT. Now when you compare the ZL1 versus the C7 Z06 it is about the same outcome. The C7Z weighs 3524lbs and has a base price of $80k, the ZL1 weighs 3907 with a base price of $62k, so again the Camaro comes in almost $20k cheaper than the Corvette. Even if you push it further and go for a ZL1 1LE versus C7Z Z07 package, the weights are the same and the price difference is around $20k again. This is why the market share for the Camaro is so much more desirable than the C7, similar performance at around $20k difference in price. End of the day the C7GS and the C7Z are very capable vehicles with great DNA, they will out accelerate the Camaro SS in the 1/4, over the top end to top speed, they can pull faster times on the road course and can stop shorter. It really just depends on what a person is looking for personally. I cross shopped the Camaro SS 1LE, the C7GS and the Camaro ZL1 against each other. Had I known then I would have more into my SS 1LE than I would of had in a ZL1 and had I been able to get a ZL1 with my GM Employee discount and no markups I would of have got the ZL1. The only way I was going to get back into a Vette would be a 18+ Z06, that is something I can manage though the kid in me wants a ZR1 I cant afford the price tag that comes with it. I was tempted recently to get on the list for the 2021 C8 Z51, but the math makes me stop each time on how bad I will take a wash on my 1LE coupled with I bought my 1LE as a project for my Dad and I to enjoy together. It was the last vehicle I bought with his GM discount before he suddenly passed away. So at this point I am not sure if I will get rid of the car any time in the near future.
__________________
2019 Corvette Z06 2LZ A8 - Halltech CAI, AWE non-catted X-pipe, Mamo V2 ported TB 592rwhp, bone stock 566rwhp
2017 Camaro SS 1LE - Procharger D1SC w/ Tial 2" BOV & Race intercooler / ARH full length catless headers / Alky meth injection system - 650rwhp on conservative tune SOLD |
|
01-08-2020, 07:24 PM | #37 | |
Account Suspended
Drives: 19 Camaro SS 1LE, 03 Ford Lightning Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 334
|
Quote:
I'm not going off manufacture listed #'s. The C7 seems to be one of those cars listed at less than it actually is. Much like the GEN6 Mustang. That 3,700 lb GT weight everyone lists is laughable. A C7 ZR1 is a mid-3,600 lb car even though GM lists it at less. Here's examples for both a 1ZR and 3ZR. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mot...st-review/amp/ That's Terminator type of weight. In fact my Cobra weight barely over 3,600 lbs with nearly a full tank, SFC's and 315's on the back. Only weight mods at the time were a Magnaflow CB and MM C/O's. Also that large steel pie on the blower snout was replaced with a smaller one. Just say. That is also close to 1SS weight which from what I've seen is the GEN6 cars are listed pretty accurately. Nowhere was I claiming they were an overweight car, just an overweight Corvette. The only reason a base C6 and base C7 are so close is likely because a non-Z06/ZR1 C6 uses a steel chassis. GM lists the base model C6Z at 3,131 lbs. That is really cool. Comparing a C6 Z06/ZR1 to a C7 Z06/ZR1 your looking at what a 300+ lb or so difference? One if the things about liking a Vette is because not only is it not heavy, but it's actually lightweight. 3,200 lbs might be considered a lightweight car, but not if it's a Miata. I used to bleed blue. I had plenty of friends who were GM fans but I was a Ford guy. Ford trying to force boosted V6's as a V8 replacement, and the the S550 gaining a ton of weight turned me into a GM fan. Here you have a 3,800+ lb Mustang GT with a N/A 5 liter SB and you can't do better than that? The Mustang was rumored to loose a bunch of weight for the GEN6 model and it gained a bunch. But somehow Mustang fans will call a Zeta Camaro a POS because of its weight? I'm not saying that C7's are bad cars, and there are S550 GT's that are crazy fast. But I don't care. If you like them then that's cool, but many people don't like these weight gains on both platforms. I've heard several Corvette owners refer to a C7 Z06 as a 3,600 lb Z06. I remember as a kid when the SN95's came out some of my parents friends who were Mustang guys complaining that it was a POS because they gained roughly 200 lbs over the Foxbody cars. Cars have just started to gain a bunch of weight at a rapid pace over the last 15 years or so and people have just started to accept heavy performance cars. I'm not a fan. GEN6 Camaro went down in weight. Props to GM. A new GT500 seems like a very capable car but a 4000+ lb Mustang doesn't interest me. I've always been more forgiving of Camaros weight than I was Mustang. Less weight is one of the few areas Mustang traditionally holds an advantage over Camaro, but it's also usually more budgeted on the chassis/suspension. I don't really dislike C7's I just don't desire them either. They're nice cars and can produce some very impressive times and #'s. So could the older GT500's, but many would rather have a Terminator even though overall a GT500 is noticeably better. This is how I feel when comparing a C6Z/ZR1 for a C7Z/ZR1 even though the C7's are nicer and more modern and more capable from the factory. Like the GT500 the C7 hasn't built its legacy or a cult following like the Terminators or C6 Z06's did on the street. I will say that I would likely choose a C7 GS over a C6 GS, but desire neither. A C6 Z06 on the other hand is one of my personal all-time favorites. A C7 will likely perform better than a comparable GEN6, but like most Vettes a C7 is a car that has the reputation for being a car that will quickly bite you if you're not a good drive or you try and get too crazy with it. But they do have very high capabilities if your good enough to extract them. No one complains about how an Alpha car performs. They complain about how the smaller ones packages the interior or trunk, but people think from a performance standpoint the platform is at the top of its class and very forgiving. But regardless I'm just more of a Camaro guy than a Vette guy. I would spend for a C5Z, C6Z or maybe a C6 ZR1 though. I will admit to not having the same weight prejudice against the C8 as I do the C7. Likely because it's a new configuration for Corvette and it uses a DCT. My guess is if the C8 could get a manual transmission or an auto with a torque converter it would lose a nice chunk of weight. |
|
01-08-2020, 09:52 PM | #38 |
Banned
Drives: 2017 Super Sport Cam. Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: US
Posts: 893
|
|
01-08-2020, 10:16 PM | #39 |
Drives: 2014 Red Hot LS3 Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: SF Bay Area, CA
Posts: 4,266
|
I have been looking at a Grand Sport or a Z51 but the ones on the lot near me are all auto.
|
01-08-2020, 10:35 PM | #40 |
Drives: Hyper Blue 2SS Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: CA
Posts: 1,160
|
the dealer went from 25% to about 9%
.
__________________
2SS, Hyper Blue, 8-Speed Automatic, NPP Exhaust, Magnetic Ride Control, Sunroof, Navigation, 5-Spoke Low-Gloss Black Wheels, Black Bowtie Emblems, Cargo Mat/Net
Mods: XPEL - Hood, Bumper, Headlights, & Side Mirrors JWM - Side Markers ZL1 Addons - Deluxe Rock Guards & Red Lift Pads GM - Dark Tail Lamps MRR - Gloss Black M017s |
01-09-2020, 04:04 PM | #41 | |
Drives: 22' Porsche PDK GT4 Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Bay Area
Posts: 2,020
|
Quote:
The C7 is not as confidence inspiring at the limits when the suspension is being worked (especially when in a corner) The SS 1LE's front and rear ends work well together, the C7 has a great front end, but falls apart in the rear. (At the limits)
__________________
Current:
22' Porsche PDK GT4 (MCS 2-way remote dampers) Previous: 18' NFG 2SS 1LE (ZL1 1LE solid rear cradle bushings & Corsa Exhaust) 16' F80 M3 (Ohlin R/T Coilovers) 13' Audi TTRS (APR Stage 1, MSS Springs) 09' C6 Z06 08' E90 M3 06' 335i (KW V2 Coilovers) 03' C5 Z06 |
|
01-09-2020, 05:11 PM | #42 | |
Drives: 17 Camaro SS 1LE & 16 Sierra AT CC Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Norman, OK
Posts: 2,424
|
Quote:
Based on the tech documents I've read on the C8's DCT it is already lighter than any auto/torque converter will be able to match.
__________________
2019 Corvette Z06 2LZ A8 - Halltech CAI, AWE non-catted X-pipe, Mamo V2 ported TB 592rwhp, bone stock 566rwhp
2017 Camaro SS 1LE - Procharger D1SC w/ Tial 2" BOV & Race intercooler / ARH full length catless headers / Alky meth injection system - 650rwhp on conservative tune SOLD |
|
|
|
Post Reply
|
|
|