How much faster does the 6th gen need to be...
 

to be considered better (performance wise) than the 5th gen?

0-60?
1/4 mile?

Nurburgring Lap Time?
VIR Lap Time?


If you weren't previously considering a 6th gen, how much faster would the 0-60, 1/4 mile, and/or lap times have to be to make you change your mind?

:popcorn:

Brutally faster.

In a straight line, 5th gens are plenty fast for factory cars, so if the 6th gens were equally as fast, it would be acceptable. Given the weight saving promise of the ATS platform, and what we are starting to find out about the next gen engines, the 6th gen will almost certainly have a better power to weight ratio, so it will probably be even faster...the only question will be by how much.

What I'd really want to see in the 6th gen is improved dynamics....I'd want lighter weight, more agility, better balance, and better steering feel/feedback. These, not power, are the 5th gen weak points. The good news is the ATS has proven to have all of these characteristics, so they should translate over to the next Camaro as well.

As far as specific numbers go, I'm sure there will be plenty of data on 0-60, quarter mile, certain track lap times, etc....However, what I'm really looking for in a car is the stuff that can't be measured with stopwatches and computers. I'm more interested in how it feels while driving at 7/10ths or even 9/10ths on the narrow, rural backroads through the hills where I live. I don't care about Nurburgring times, because I'm never gonna drive my car competitively around a high speed road course.

Pretty much exactly what I would have said...I agree. If the 5th gen weighed a good 300+ lbs less, and was a bit more agile feeling it would be the perfect car without needing any more power in my opinion.

SS should run low 12s, LT models should run at least mid to low 13s. In other words, both cars should drop a second from their average times. This will keep them competitive through their entire life cycle.

A loss of 600 pounds and a new 450HP LT1 engine program on an Cadillac ATS chassis would essentially feel like losing 4 of your favorite NFL line backers out of your SUV... peppy!

A 1/4 mile calculator states a 450HP, 3400 pound car would go 11.34 @119mph.

I am looking forward to the ATS chassis.

I would like to see a 5.3L version of the LT1 make around 385 HP and get 35 MPG for the entry level V-8. Build it strong and make it easy to mod. With the lower weight if they nail the body style and land the price at 31,000 to start they would sell in the hundred thousands again.

Holy hell yes.

Throw on some dr and run 10s:bow:

Hell Yea :headbang: , faster is always better

well lets see how the trends are going.
Low 4/sub 4 second range for SS
high 3 second for 1LE
Low 5 second/ sub 5 for V6
Mid 3 Second for ZL1

So have the SS be a 5.3 LT, the Z28 be the 6.2 LT and the ZL1 be a S/C or Turbo 6.2 LT?

That would work.

- Gen 6 ATS Camaro, SS - new Gen 7 Corvette LT1 V8 (450HP).

- Gen 6 ATS Camaro, 1LE (handling pak) - new Gen 7 Corvette LT1 V8 (450HP).

- Gen 6 ATS Z/28, whatever Gen 7 Vette Z06 LT was available (530HP)

- Gen 6 ZL1, whatever Gen 7 Corvette ZR-1 SC LT program was offered should go here (680hp)

i could certainly live with that

Doesn't need to be faster, just more refined all around.

Better interior and materials. Better trunk. Better visibility.

Just fix the things this forum has been filled with for the last 3 years.

I recall very little complaining that the car wasn't fast enough.

It won't get much faster than what it is now, remeber that GM will not make a car to rival the Corvette under any circumstance.

Well I guess we have to tomorrow if that bar moves. C7 Corvette might be faster than the C6.

Put the same power we have now in the ATS chassis and it would be amazing simply because of that. If they end up putting the LT1 in that thing with 450hp/450tq, its going to be absolutely killer.

I'd say wait and see what kind of performance numbers the next gen Mustang put up, and then figure the next Camaro to be in that ballpark.

Out of the gate, a 6th gen only needs to be just enough faster than the outgoing level of 5th gen to be able to say so.

A tenth for those straightline numbers and maybe a quarter second per minute for the road courses would be "enough".


Norm

...Gen 6 coupe at approx. 3,700 lbs with 450 HP LT1 should be around .3-.4 sec faster in the 1320 than the current Gen 5 coupe at 3,913 lbs with 426 HP LS3

If its going to come out and not be faster than the competition off the showroom floor then go back to the drawing board, after all isn't that what it's all about bang for the buck ?



:happyanim:

Sounds about right.

I think final HP/Tq figures for the LT1 go up a little after certification.

But either way the LT1 will have a strong under the curve power advantage over the LS3. Put that in a lighter car and there is no doubt the 6th Gen Camaro will better the 5th Gen performance.

:word:

Faster than a MUSTANG is all we need it to be.

It may be slightly lower then 426hp or the same but it'll be on a lighter platform hopefully which will equate to faster times. Are we concerned with faster times or less hp #'s?

Since we do not know what the Ford crew will be putting out, the question is mute. We are at an advantage engineering wise, having much more time and experience away from the antiquated F body structure, using a different Zeta chasis design only to be ungraded to Alpha. Ford has to make the quantum leap forward from their fossil frame architecture. It's up to the engine shops for sure, based on corporate edict about what they allow them to tinker with HP level wise, and what is their HP vision for the future. Hopefully we have some modular leeway with the engines to switch and swap, mix and match along the lines of what Ford has shown lately.

The 6th gen. needs to be lighter, smarter, quicker in order to soundly compete with Ford's aggressive mustang.

Not for anything, there is still a little time to work on the rest of the 5th gen's models. I have newfound respect for the Camaro SS 1LE. The SS and the ZL1 could use a little attention before the end of the 5th gen. run.

[__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ___________________________________________] that much faster

It's nice to dream.

Most Camaro5 members thought the 5th gen was going to be a lot faster than it is.
I have a feeling the same thing will happen with the 6th gen.

If it can run solid mid 12s (skilled drivers) I'd be pleased. That would make it a low 12s (glory pass) car.

The current 5th gen is a low 13s (average Joe), high 12s (skilled driver), mid 12s (glory pass).

How much faster does the 6th gen need to be...
 

Maybe I'm missing something here but the S197 Chassis is way better than the SN95 (AKA modified Fox Body Chassis). The new chassis (which will be an upgraded S197 design) will more than likely significantly better than the current chassis.

Both the Camaro and current Gen Mustang were designed to be convertibles so I don't see where the complaint is.

Not arguing, I'm just wondering how you mean because more than a couple of people on this forum have stated the current gen is on the same chassis as the New Edge Mustang... :iono:

I know the Zeta 2 is more ridged than the S197 but it seems that some think the Mustangs chassis is made of glass...

:word:Best response ever.

Agreed


:D

Actually, I suspect that the chassis dynamics of any of these cars are fairly well understood at the time of introduction. I find it very hard to believe that there wasn't an engineering mule or two with near-1LE wheel/tire/suspension tuning or ZL1 power roaming the proving grounds before you could buy any 5th gen.

I wouldn't underestimate how close Ford might be. The show car for the current S197 platform was fitted with IRS, and even though changes were made to fit the 3-link stick axle there is still some DEW-platform Lincoln LS (which has IRS) DNA in it.


Norm

Straight past warp to plaid. :burnrubber:

Setting the bar pretty low I see. :laugh:

Less cylinder numbers and higher fines for owning them are a primary concern.

If you read the wish list thread, the 6th gen will be pushing 5000 lbs by the time they add in all the comfort features people want. :bellyroll:

I expect the 6th gen SS to be slightly lighter, slightly more powerful and slightly faster than the 5th gen SS. I don't think it will be as big a change in any way as people are hoping.

I expect base trims, to top tier V8 model to lose a good 300+ lbs. I don't think we will see 400 - 500 or more lost, but if it did I wouldn't be complaining. (unless they made the car too damn small and lost it for that reason).

It can be smaller, but just a tad. I'm thinking ATS size.