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Old 04-15-2023, 09:09 PM   #603
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Originally Posted by Martinjlm View Post
Shockingly, I’m having this same discussion with folks at Mustang6. So I’ll just cut and paste my exact statement from over there (less typing for me)
I am glad you answered this, I have no dog in the fight - so to speak. I really have looked at your posts and videos for knowledge.

I just want to see all the angles.

You - to me, made it quite clear, this is a process, one that will take years but will evolve and get better. And in a forum group like this it will be an up hill battle.

Me being one, considering I just bought a ZL1 \


My main sticking point is "US" thinking we do not need to drill oil. Batteries or not we still will need - at the moment, and near future - 99% of that barrel for all the other needs. And no one is thinking about that. Seems like shift of blame to me.
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Old 04-15-2023, 11:36 PM   #604
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Originally Posted by FarmerFran View Post
I am glad you answered this, I have no dog in the fight - so to speak. I really have looked at your posts and videos for knowledge.

I just want to see all the angles.

You - to me, made it quite clear, this is a process, one that will take years but will evolve and get better. And in a forum group like this it will be an up hill battle.

Me being one, considering I just bought a ZL1 \


My main sticking point is "US" thinking we do not need to drill oil. Batteries or not we still will need - at the moment, and near future - 99% of that barrel for all the other needs. And no one is thinking about that. Seems like shift of blame to me.
Preach. The US is the world’s number 1 producer of oil and will continue to be even as cars transition to electric. There are many other uses for crude oil. From asphalt to jet fuel and so much more.
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Old 04-16-2023, 06:42 PM   #605
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So here's what we expect to see in terms of EV introductions from GM. This is not everything. Just what I can list because they are discussed publicly in at least one location that I can document. For a number of the legacy nameplates, appearance of the EV version does not mean that the ICE version is going away. Expect them to be sold side-by-side for some period of time as GM makes the transition between now and 2035. Some legacy nameplates will disappear before the EV brand if the plant where the legacy nameplate is built is being converted to a Factory Zero (LGR for example).


Brand​ & Nameplate​ / Description​ / Timing​ / Price range​

Cadillac​ Lyriq / Luxury Crossover / On sale now / $63 - 80k
Cadillac Celestiq / Exotic Sedan / Sold out for 18 months / $300k +
BrightDrop Zevo 600 / Cargo Van / Delivering to fleet customers / < $50k
Chevrolet Blazer EV / Mid Sized SUV / Summer 2023 / $45 - 66k
Chevrolet Equinox EV / Compact SUV / Fall 2023 / $30 - 45k
Chevrolet Silverado EV / Full Size Pick up / Spring 2023 / $41.6k - 107k
GMC Hummer EV SUV / Large SUV / Spring 2023 / $70 - 110k
GMC Sierra EV / Full Size Pick Up / Fall 2023 / $45 - 110k
Buick Electra (alphanumeric) / Compact CUV / Early 2024 / Unknown
Buick Electra (alphanumeric) / Mid Size CUV / Mid 2024 / Unknown
Cadillac Symboliq / Compact Lux Utility / Late 2024 / Unknown
Cadillac Escalade IQ Large Lux Utility / Mid to Late 2024 / Unknown
Cadillac Unknown;btw Lyriq and Escalade / Full Size Lux Utility / Mid to Late 2024 Unknown
Honda Prologue / Compact CUV built at GM plant / Mid 2024 / Unknown
Cadillac Escalade IQL / Longer version of Escalade IQ / Early 2025 / Unknown
Chevrolet Corvette EV / Midsize Performance CUV / Mid 2025 / Unknown
Buick Encore GX EV / Compact CUV / 2026 / Unknown
Cadillac CT4/CT5 EV / Sedans / 2026 / Unknown
Chevrolet Colorado EV / Mid Size Pick Up / 2026 / Unknown
GMC Canyon EV / Mid Size Pick Up / 2026 / Unknown
Chevrolet Express EV / Cargo Van / 2026 / Unknown
GMC Savana EV / Cargo Van / 2026 / Unknown
Chevrolet Tahoe EV / Full Size SUV / 2026 / Unknown
GMC Yukon EV / Full Size SUV / 2026 / Unknown
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Old 04-16-2023, 07:33 PM   #606
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WoW... that's one hell of a list.

Tks for working that up. I have a Blazer reservation and nice to see they start this summer.
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Old 04-17-2023, 06:39 AM   #607
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WoW... that's one hell of a list.

Tks for working that up. I have a Blazer reservation and nice to see they start this summer.
So do I for the wife, perfect commuter car for her, though i'd bet we won't see one this summer. My dealer has been silent on the matter. GM has told them almost nothing.
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Old 04-17-2023, 08:47 AM   #608
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Originally Posted by Martinjlm View Post
So here's what we expect to see in terms of EV introductions from GM. This is not everything. Just what I can list because they are discussed publicly in at least one location that I can document. For a number of the legacy nameplates, appearance of the EV version does not mean that the ICE version is going away. Expect them to be sold side-by-side for some period of time as GM makes the transition between now and 2035. Some legacy nameplates will disappear before the EV brand if the plant where the legacy nameplate is built is being converted to a Factory Zero (LGR for example).


Brand​ & Nameplate​ / Description​ / Timing​ / Price range​

Cadillac​ Lyriq / Luxury Crossover / On sale now / $63 - 80k
Cadillac Celestiq / Exotic Sedan / Sold out for 18 months / $300k +
BrightDrop Zevo 600 / Cargo Van / Delivering to fleet customers / < $50k
Chevrolet Blazer EV / Mid Sized SUV / Summer 2023 / $45 - 66k
Chevrolet Equinox EV / Compact SUV / Fall 2023 / $30 - 45k
Chevrolet Silverado EV / Full Size Pick up / Spring 2023 / $41.6k - 107k
GMC Hummer EV SUV / Large SUV / Spring 2023 / $70 - 110k
GMC Sierra EV / Full Size Pick Up / Fall 2023 / $45 - 110k
Buick Electra (alphanumeric) / Compact CUV / Early 2024 / Unknown
Buick Electra (alphanumeric) / Mid Size CUV / Mid 2024 / Unknown
Cadillac Symboliq / Compact Lux Utility / Late 2024 / Unknown
Cadillac Escalade IQ Large Lux Utility / Mid to Late 2024 / Unknown
Cadillac Unknown;btw Lyriq and Escalade / Full Size Lux Utility / Mid to Late 2024 Unknown
Honda Prologue / Compact CUV built at GM plant / Mid 2024 / Unknown
Cadillac Escalade IQL / Longer version of Escalade IQ / Early 2025 / Unknown
Chevrolet Corvette EV / Midsize Performance CUV / Mid 2025 / Unknown
Buick Encore GX EV / Compact CUV / 2026 / Unknown
Cadillac CT4/CT5 EV / Sedans / 2026 / Unknown
Chevrolet Colorado EV / Mid Size Pick Up / 2026 / Unknown
GMC Canyon EV / Mid Size Pick Up / 2026 / Unknown
Chevrolet Express EV / Cargo Van / 2026 / Unknown
GMC Savana EV / Cargo Van / 2026 / Unknown
Chevrolet Tahoe EV / Full Size SUV / 2026 / Unknown
GMC Yukon EV / Full Size SUV / 2026 / Unknown

Interesting list. But the "Timing" column seems a bit vague. Some being already in production, orders taken, etc. Those dates may be more accurate....But others, aside from still needing a plant, etc. the timing could also mean a reveal date...order date...limited first edition dates, stretched out for several additional years...

I don't really care so to speak...lol...but these "promise" dates so far seem to have been overly optimistic and watching-paint-dry long. No big deal, really. But the Intro to actual on the road seems like a lot longer than what we have seen.

Just an observation...and a somewhat jaded gripe...so, sorry, no offense meant...lol..I know it's a huge undertaking and things happen, no-one has a perfect crystal ball, etc. but definitely not worth holding one's breath over and better for me to put them in the I'll believe it when I see it column...lol...

All good. Appreciate the info and your hard work for our edification.

P.S. How about that Corvette EV!....lol

P.S.S. Also looks like a continuation of Hi-end intros. Not much to cheer about in the bottom affordability range it seems. Hopefully not the case, but we'll see.
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Old 04-17-2023, 11:23 AM   #609
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Interesting list. But the "Timing" column seems a bit vague. Some being already in production, orders taken, etc. Those dates may be more accurate....But others, aside from still needing a plant, etc. the timing could also mean a reveal date...order date...limited first edition dates, stretched out for several additional years...

I don't really care so to speak...lol...but these "promise" dates so far seem to have been overly optimistic and watching-paint-dry long. No big deal, really. But the Intro to actual on the road seems like a lot longer than what we have seen.
The “Timing” is based on our forecast of start of production and is heavily redacted. We forecast to the month of expected sop. I am excluding the specific month detail because GM has clearly been slow walking their actual introductions. Lyriq started production pretty much when we forecast, but deliveries trickled out until very recently. We’re expecting much of the same for the next couple of high visibility, high volume offerings.

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Just an observation...and a somewhat jaded gripe...so, sorry, no offense meant...lol..I know it's a huge undertaking and things happen, no-one has a perfect crystal ball, etc. but definitely not worth holding one's breath over and better for me to put them in the I'll believe it when I see it column...lol...

All good. Appreciate the info and your hard work for our edification.

P.S. How about that Corvette EV!....lol

P.S.S. Also looks like a continuation of Hi-end intros. Not much to cheer about in the bottom affordability range it seems. Hopefully not the case, but we'll see.
I think the Blazer EV, Silverado EV, and the various Buick EVs are intended to be more mainstream. Sure, the Silverado EV gets close to Hummer EV pricing if you load it up with a similar propulsion system, but it starts out at $41+. Well within the range, low end actually, of what Silverados currently sell for. Equinox starting at $30k is a game changer. Cadillac is what it is.
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Old 04-17-2023, 05:23 PM   #610
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A new EV Credits list...:

https://www.businessinsider.com/elec...ll-list-2023-4

As of April 18, only 10 all-electric car models qualify for the full $7,500 tax credit in the US. Chevrolet; Tesla; Cadillac; Ford
More details about $7,500 tax credits for electric cars came out on Monday.
Tax credits are crucial to encourage more EV adoption given the cars, on average, are expensive.
Here's which electric cars qualify for the EV tax credit starting on April 18.

The US Treasury Department on Monday released a list of electric and plug-in hybrid vehicles that qualify for the full amount of new EV tax credits available, or $,7500, which stem from the massive Inflation Reduction Act passed last August.

Monday's news also detailed which electrified vehicles qualify for half credit, or $3,750.

Whether a plug-in vehicle qualifies for credits is determined by the vehicle's eligibility based on criteria like sticker price, as well as whether it was assembled in the US. The two halves of the credit are related to the origin of its battery and critical minerals components. The industry was especially waiting for details on that, given how complex the EV battery supply chain is — and how much automakers are leaning on China for those materials.

The tax credits are meant to incentivize the auto industry to move their supply chains and invest in electric vehicle development in the US.

Only 10 electric vehicles can get the full credit amount starting April 18, while six others qualify for partial credits.
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Old 04-17-2023, 05:39 PM   #611
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Originally Posted by 90503 View Post
A new EV Credits list...:

https://www.businessinsider.com/elec...ll-list-2023-4

As of April 18, only 10 all-electric car models qualify for the full $7,500 tax credit in the US. Chevrolet; Tesla; Cadillac; Ford
More details about $7,500 tax credits for electric cars came out on Monday.
Tax credits are crucial to encourage more EV adoption given the cars, on average, are expensive.
Here's which electric cars qualify for the EV tax credit starting on April 18.

The US Treasury Department on Monday released a list of electric and plug-in hybrid vehicles that qualify for the full amount of new EV tax credits available, or $,7500, which stem from the massive Inflation Reduction Act passed last August.

Monday's news also detailed which electrified vehicles qualify for half credit, or $3,750.

Whether a plug-in vehicle qualifies for credits is determined by the vehicle's eligibility based on criteria like sticker price, as well as whether it was assembled in the US. The two halves of the credit are related to the origin of its battery and critical minerals components. The industry was especially waiting for details on that, given how complex the EV battery supply chain is — and how much automakers are leaning on China for those materials.

The tax credits are meant to incentivize the auto industry to move their supply chains and invest in electric vehicle development in the US.

Only 10 electric vehicles can get the full credit amount starting April 18, while six others qualify for partial credits.
We covered this in detail at one of our client briefings last month. Look who drew the short straw and had to discuss IRA…
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Old 04-17-2023, 05:49 PM   #612
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We covered this in detail at one of our client briefings last month. Look who drew the short straw and had to discuss IRA…
All those topics look like a can of worms...lol...You might have to update yours now that the Treasury Dept. has spoken...

First impressions, it seems like they didn't cave-in much and relax the non-domestic components, etc., not sure......How often are these Treasury Dept. lists up for review, changes and appeals?

Chevy and GM seem to be the big "winners"....
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Old 04-17-2023, 06:13 PM   #613
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All those topics look like a can of worms...lol...You might have to update yours now that the Treasury Dept. has spoken...

First impressions, it seems like they didn't cave-in much and relax the non-domestic components, etc., not sure......How often are these Treasury Dept. lists up for review, changes and appeals?

Chevy and GM seem to be the big "winners"....
Nope. We were spot on. Really wasn’t that hard. We just figured “what qualifies if the Treasury doesn’t change a thing?” Then the Treasury didn’t change a thing.

The Treasury review was a one time thing. The way the bill is written there was some ambiguity about how to determine where minerals were mined versus where they were processed. Treasury was asked to decide on the ambiguity. Now that they have, the bill is what the bill is unless Joe Manchin is successful in closing the leased vehicle loophole. Not looking too promising for Joe, though.
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Old 04-17-2023, 06:15 PM   #614
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Nope. We were spot on. Really wasn’t that hard. We just figured “what qualifies if the Treasury doesn’t change a thing?” Then the Treasury didn’t change a thing.

The Treasury review was a one time thing. The way the bill is written there was some ambiguity about how to determine where minerals were mined versus where they were processed. Treasury was asked to decide on the ambiguity. Now that they have, the bill is what the bill is unless Joe Manchin is successful in closing the leased vehicle loophole. Not looking too promising for Joe, though.
"Leased vehicle loophole"...?
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Old 04-17-2023, 06:44 PM   #615
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"Leased vehicle loophole"...?
Commercial vehicles are treated differently than passenger vehicles.

Passenger vehicles have to be built in North America to qualify. Commercial vehicles don’t.

Passenger vehicles have to be priced at or below $55,000 for cars, $80,000 for utilities and pick ups. Commercial vehicles don’t have those restrictions.

Passenger vehicles have to have specific battery components (anodes and cathodes) produced in the US or a Free Trade partner country to qualify for $3,750 and have minerals sourced from or processed in the US or a Free Trade partner country for the other $3,750. Commercial vehicles don’t.

Buyers of passenger vehicles that pass the above qualifications must have household income not exceeding $150,000 for a taxpayer filing Single, $225,000 for a taxpayer filing Head of Household, $300,000 for a taxpayer filing Married, Joint. Buyers of commercial vehicles don’t.

Now the loophole…

Treasury defines a Commercial Vehicle to be a vehicle used by an entity for the sole purpose of generating revenue. If you are a leasing company, the vehicles that you buy and own for the purpose of leasing to individuals (generating revenue) are by definition Commercial Vehicles. The leasing company gets the incentive, not the person leasing the vehicle from the leasing company. They can choose to pass all, part, or none of the incentive value on to the leasing customer.

So how’s that work?

If I buy a Cadillac Lyriq and it stickers at $79,000 and our household income is less than $300k, we would qualify for a $7,500 tax incentive.

If I lease a $153,000 Porsche Taycan Turbo that is made in Stuttgart, Germany, the leasing company I lease it from gets a $7,500 tax incentive. They can put it in their pocket or they can reduce the price of the car that I lease from them or they can use it to improve the lease terms. Their call.
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Old 04-17-2023, 07:14 PM   #616
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I think Joe has a point.lol. I doubt the leasing company owner makes less than 150K...lol. Leasing and commercial seems to go against the whole purpose of the Tax Credit. Definitely a "loophole" that probably should be closed.
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