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Old 05-03-2024, 09:40 AM   #2017
Martinjlm
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Originally Posted by silversleeper View Post


In other electric news Acura is making a new electric hearse looking
crossover so it can take itself out for burial after the model is so unpopular?
I saw the Acura ZDX (and Honda Prologue) in the flesh several weeks ago. 'Looks pretty good imho.

Interiors are dramatically different from Blazer EV (Prologue) and Lyriq (ZDX) with the GM vehicles having nicer, more modern interiors.

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Originally Posted by Evergreen6 View Post
Another GM Ultium Platform rebadge.

This ranks up there in weirdness like the time GM borrowed Honda's 3.5L V6, or when a GM truck was sold as a Saab, or when Toyota borrowed the Cavalier.
FWIW I was right in the thick of the Honda and Saab episodes. Here’s a behind the scenes take..
Honda
I was actually very involved in this one. I was Director - GM Powertrain Planning at the time. This was during one of the phases of “merger-mania” where auto companies were merging and/or acquiring each other. Honda sort of indicated that they were concerned that they might be forced to merge with Toyota. That’s like saying “Ford, you need to merge with GM”. So GM and Honda were talking at high levels in ways to collaborate without establishing equity positions in order to complicate any forced merger of Honda with Toyota.

At the time, GM was in the process of bringing out the Saturn Vue and we were also in the process of developing a new DOHC V6 (the same V6 that wound up in 5th and 6th Camaro). The HFV6 was intended to launch as the uplevel engine in the Saturn Vue. It was running late in development. So this was seen as a window of opportunity to create a tie-up with Honda. So we re-structured the launch cadence of the HFV6 and made the deal to acquire the 3.5L V6 / 5 speed from Honda for the Saturn Vue. That allowed us to place the HFV6 in more appications.

Shortly after that GM and Honda entered into a long term agreement to co-develop Hydrogen Fuel Cell technology. Honda engineers moved to Pontiac, Michigan and were housed on the GM Powertrain campus. They are still there. GM and Honda just recently started shipping hydrogen fuel stacks from their jointly operated Brownstown Twp plant. This was the plant that used to build batteries for Chevrolet Volt.

Saab
The GMT360 and GMT370 programs were super successful at launch. This was the Chevrolet Trailblazer / GMC Envoy twins. GMT360 was the short wheelbase, GMT370 the long. GM acquired Saab during all the aforementioned merger-mania and was looking for additional opportunities to expand the Saab product line. So the Saab 9-7 was added to the portfolio to ride the GMT360 popularity wave. GM had also acquired a large stake in Subaru. There was a Subaru version (Ascender?) of the GMT360. And Oldsmobile (Bravada) as well. When Oldsmobile was dropped the Bravada was morphed into the Buick Rainier. We also took the Subaru WRX and made a Saab version, the 9-2, that was commonly called the “Saabaru”

So, at the time that Saab produced the 9-7 SUV off of the GMT360 program, Saab was a wholly owned subsidiary and brand of GM.
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Old 05-03-2024, 10:19 AM   #2018
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Originally Posted by Martinjlm View Post
FWIW I was right in the thick of the Honda and Saab episodes. Here’s a behind the scenes take..
Interesting details, thanks for sharing. I knew that GM owned Saab at that point, it was just so weird to have a GMT rebadged as a Saab. Arguably, it was one of the nicer GMT360's, but it was solidly "Weekend at Bernie's" for the Saab enthusiasts. The brand was dead at that point.

From memory, please correct me if I'm wrong:

I recall the Ascender was an Isuzu, not surprising, GM and Isuzu have long established ties. I recall they had a heavy hand in the Gen 1 Colorado/Canyon GMT355. Collab on the development of the V8 Duramax. Powertrain sharing on the early 1st gen S10, and Isuzu had their own S10 twin for a long time, the Hombre.

The Saabaru was about the kinkiest automotive mixup I think I've ever seen. A Subaru wearing a Saab getup at the command of its master at the time, GM. Oof.

I worked for GM/Chevy dealerships when the GMT360 came out. V8 power out of a V6, 4.2 inline (Atlas, which we discussed above). It felt modern, sounded good, was a great size. They were extremely popular. Every one to hit our lot was sold within days.
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Old 05-03-2024, 01:18 PM   #2019
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Originally Posted by Evergreen6 View Post
Interesting details, thanks for sharing. I knew that GM owned Saab at that point, it was just so weird to have a GMT rebadged as a Saab. Arguably, it was one of the nicer GMT360's, but it was solidly "Weekend at Bernie's" for the Saab enthusiasts. The brand was dead at that point.

From memory, please correct me if I'm wrong:

I recall the Ascender was an Isuzu, not surprising, GM and Isuzu have long established ties. I recall they had a heavy hand in the Gen 1 Colorado/Canyon GMT355. Collab on the development of the V8 Duramax. Powertrain sharing on the early 1st gen S10, and Isuzu had their own S10 twin for a long time, the Hombre.

The Saabaru was about the kinkiest automotive mixup I think I've ever seen. A Subaru wearing a Saab getup at the command of its master at the time, GM. Oof.

I worked for GM/Chevy dealerships when the GMT360 came out. V8 power out of a V6, 4.2 inline (Atlas, which we discussed above). It felt modern, sounded good, was a great size. They were extremely popular. Every one to hit our lot was sold within days.
You’re right! That’s why Subaru Ascender sounded strange to me. It was Isuzu Ascender and there was no Subaru GMT360.

I’m sure typing V6 was force of habit. The 6-cylinder in GMT360 was the 4.2L Inline, not V. It also got V8 fuel economy, which is why it didn’t stick around very long.
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Old 05-03-2024, 07:05 PM   #2020
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Originally Posted by Martinjlm View Post
You’re right! That’s why Subaru Ascender sounded strange to me. It was Isuzu Ascender and there was no Subaru GMT360.

I’m sure typing V6 was force of habit. The 6-cylinder in GMT360 was the 4.2L Inline, not V. It also got V8 fuel economy, which is why it didn’t stick around very long.
Ha! yes, typing V6 is a habit. It was definitely an inline 6. I had its shorter 5-cylinder sibling in a Colorado a long time ago.
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Old 05-03-2024, 08:58 PM   #2021
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If you wish this thread closed, keep up the name calling and off topic and ideological comments.

The relevant rules are listed below.

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We’re here as a family of enthusiasts, and we should act accordingly. And since the site is constantly gaining new members, please go out of your way to help answer others’ questions in an effort to make this an even better community.

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Old 05-06-2024, 09:48 AM   #2022
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evergreen6 View Post
Interesting details, thanks for sharing. I knew that GM owned Saab at that point, it was just so weird to have a GMT rebadged as a Saab. Arguably, it was one of the nicer GMT360's, but it was solidly "Weekend at Bernie's" for the Saab enthusiasts. The brand was dead at that point.

From memory, please correct me if I'm wrong:

I recall the Ascender was an Isuzu, not surprising, GM and Isuzu have long established ties. I recall they had a heavy hand in the Gen 1 Colorado/Canyon GMT355. Collab on the development of the V8 Duramax. Powertrain sharing on the early 1st gen S10, and Isuzu had their own S10 twin for a long time, the Hombre.

The Saabaru was about the kinkiest automotive mixup I think I've ever seen. A Subaru wearing a Saab getup at the command of its master at the time, GM. Oof.

I worked for GM/Chevy dealerships when the GMT360 came out. V8 power out of a V6, 4.2 inline (Atlas, which we discussed above). It felt modern, sounded good, was a great size. They were extremely popular. Every one to hit our lot was sold within days.
I firmly believe that this platform was one of GM's many missed opportunities. For one, it was a healthy sized mid truck/SUV platform. For another, it introduced the TrailBlazer SS, instantly converting the then popular but pedestrian Trailblazer into a super rock-star. Third, the platform (IMO) advanced the popularity of the performance SUV. It was the ideal platform for its size. It allowed a midsized SUV body to house a powerful v8 with great suspension enhancements. Just think of what Chevy and Cadillac could have accomplished with a true Trackhawk challenger. That in a nutshell was the GMT360 platform could have been with just a healthy uptick in horsepower. Several times GM pondered introducing a performance regular sized SUV, with the ending result being shelved or not noticed. While the Tahoe platform is great, its size prohibits any serious contention for performance. While Cadillac is marketing their v-series Escalade, deep down they know that it cannot pose a threat to Mopar's TrackHawk. The Escalade is too big and too tall to pose a threat to Mopar and BMW's missles.

This was the shame of the cancellation of GM360T. It missed out on many opportunities it could have had later.
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Old 05-13-2024, 02:46 PM   #2023
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Biden Administration is about to place what amounts to a 102.5% on cars and trucks imported from China. That would include Buick Envision, Buick Envista, Lincoln Nautilus, Volvo S90 and probably a handful of other vehicles. Intent is not so much to target those vehicles, but to prevent China from flooding the US market with vehicles like they are currently doing in Europe.
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Old 05-13-2024, 02:57 PM   #2024
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102% tariff? Like doubling the price? If so, solid move
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Old 05-13-2024, 03:04 PM   #2025
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That's a great opportunity for gm and others to raise their MSRPs across the board and again redefine what's "affordable". Unions and stock prices will likely benefit.

Maybe in the near future I can buy that 10K BYD EV for 20K and still save a ton of money.
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Old 05-13-2024, 03:22 PM   #2026
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That's a great opportunity for gm and others to raise their MSRPs across the board and again redefine what's "affordable". Unions and stock prices will likely benefit.

Maybe in the near future I can buy that 10K BYD EV for 20K and still save a ton of money.
Why stop at at a mere 102%? Meanwhile, over at FoMoCo...
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Old 05-13-2024, 03:35 PM   #2027
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Originally Posted by Iron Lung Jimmy;1142484'7
102% tariff? Like doubling the price? If so, solid move
Yes. There is already a 2.5% tariff on vehicles imported from anywhere. Then there is an additional 25% for vehicles imported from China. If that tariff is quadrupled, that’s 100% + the original 2.5%.
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/bide...he%20decision.
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Old 05-13-2024, 04:39 PM   #2028
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Originally Posted by Martinjlm View Post
Biden Administration is about to place what amounts to a 102.5% on cars and trucks imported from China. That would include Buick Envision, Buick Envista, Lincoln Nautilus, Volvo S90 and probably a handful of other vehicles. Intent is not so much to target those vehicles, but to prevent China from flooding the US market with vehicles like they are currently doing in Europe.
With such a huge increase, I wonder what's going to stop companies from importing to Mexico or Canada first and then to US to avoid the tariff. Surely the cost of doing it this way is cheaper than the equivalent of the cost of the vehicle.
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Old 05-13-2024, 04:41 PM   #2029
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I wasn't likely to ever be in the market for a Chinese-made vehicle unless it was my only choice, and I wouldn't be enthusiastic about it. I was extremely off-put when I discovered GM is importing cars from China to sell in the US, among others...
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Old 05-13-2024, 08:40 PM   #2030
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With such a huge increase, I wonder what's going to stop companies from importing to Mexico or Canada first and then to US to avoid the tariff. Surely the cost of doing it this way is cheaper than the equivalent of the cost of the vehicle.
The tariffs are based on where the vehicles are built. Built in China, then shipping to Mexico won’t cut it. Building in Mexico? Stay tuned.
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