[Lazerbrainz2k3]

Originally Posted by beedo

Then your mortgage company tells you to pound sand and get out because you cant pay your house payment

That happens even WITH a minimum wage. It happens even for people making more than the minimum wage, if they're living beyond their means or they lose the job that's paying that mortgage and other bills.

Regardless of whether there's a minimum wage or not and where it's set if there is, obviously you want to establish fairly stable employment at a pay which supports that mortgage payment before you agree to pay it. And if you're to lose that employment, that mortgage company will work with you to an extent while you're between jobs - if you tell then up front and don't decide to start skipping payments in hopes your ship will come in before they boot you, never a good idea.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by 396ssrat

If it weren't for Unions minimum wage would be $10 per day.

Not sure where that comes from. It's clearly not true, but just wondering where you get it.

When the UAW struck GM in the 30s, pretty sure that was the going wage. Guessing it would have gone up a bit even without that strike

[Jim50thSS]

I've seen a lot of complaining about the CEO salary, but that is determined by the board of directors which are put their by being elected by the shareholders. If the union and the employs wanted wouldn't it be very feasible for the union to become the largest shareholder of the company?

You hear about the employee salary being higher than average, then their big bonuses, plus all the scandals and wasted money from their union leaders. It just seems to me that if they wanted dictate how the company was ran they could by becoming the largest shareholder group.

[3.8TransAM]

People need to go a long way in learning how to stick together.....


As in any career or occupation along with regardless of whether it was union or not, 10% are the jackasses that ruin it for everyone else.


Some people here need to realize that 90% of union guys are hard workers, do their job, go the extra mile and everything else.



It's like all the other arguments here 95% of the people crying about mechanics could not handle doing it for a living, or work on assembly line building your Camaro.


So go take the guys/gals some coffee and doughnuts while they're on strike. It's ok for 5 minutes to not go "Me,me,me me, me!" all the time.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by 3.8TransAM

People need to go a long way in learning how to stick together.....


As in any career or occupation along with regardless of whether it was union or not, 10% are the jackasses that ruin it for everyone else.


Some people here need to realize that 90% of union guys are hard workers, do their job, go the extra mile and everything else.
.

Agreed. It's like I said earlier. Unfortunately I don't have a favorable view of unions but I have really only interacted with the 10% that make everyone else look bad

[Drews]

Strike update... no agreement in sight between GM and UAW. Unfortunately, i think this will be a long one.
I even predict their will be no agreement or strike end until sometime next year 2020.

[Emoto]

Originally Posted by shaffe

Agreed. It's like I said earlier. Unfortunately I don't have a favorable view of unions but I have really only interacted with the 10% that make everyone else look bad

I have no problem with the rank and file members. They are undoubtedly almost all good people.

I have a BIG problem with unions and the pinky-ring thugs who run them. The way to better pay, etc., in a nutshell is to find ways to increase productivity, cut costs, and add value. Stopping work and COSTING the company money is a vulgar and crude method. If I ran GM, I would be working on how to ditch the UAW.

[ChevyRules]

Originally Posted by Emoto

I have no problem with the rank and file members. They are undoubtedly almost all good people.

I have a BIG problem with unions and the pinky-ring thugs who run them. The way to better pay, etc., in a nutshell is to find ways to increase productivity, cut costs, and add value. Stopping work and COSTING the company money is a vulgar and crude method. If I ran GM, I would be working on how to ditch the UAW.

You think a strike is vulgar? How else do the employees get any power against management in negotiations? Management most of the time can wait things out if strikes weren’t allowed.

Here is vulgar..... Management going after employees for the smallest infractions of policy during negotiations as a way to get the union to break first. Ruin people’s careers for something that wasn’t enforced out of negotiations, but will be enforced when negotiations are taking place. Things should be status quo in a good faith negotiation.

[Emoto]

Originally Posted by ChevyRules

You think a strike is vulgar? How else do the employees get any power against management in negotiations? Management most of the time can wait things out if strikes weren’t allowed.

Here is vulgar..... Management going after employees for the smallest infractions of policy during negotiations as a way to get the union to break first. Ruin people’s careers for something that wasn’t enforced out of negotiations, but will be enforced when negotiations are taking place. Things should be status quo in a good faith negotiation.

I don't believe in an adversarial relationship between labor and management. It is a bad paradigm that the union has generated by pitting the labor force against the company it works for, rather than partnering and finding ways for the company to do better. It distorts the labor market and increases costs. YMMV.

[3.8TransAM]

Originally Posted by Emoto

I don't believe in an adversarial relationship between labor and management. It is a bad paradigm that the union has generated by pitting the labor force against the company it works for, rather than partnering and finding ways for the company to do better. It distorts the labor market and increases costs. YMMV.

Adversarial? Paradigm? So the union created this? The people who gave up raises and the like to help the company want their raises now and they created the issue............

[Captain J]

I should have never opened this thread. As a proud union member for over 41 yrs, I'm pissed that so many people wish ill will on someone just because of their union membership. First of all without a union, most employers would not give vacation pay, sick leave, OT pay, holidays off, or the 8 hr work day just to name a few. If you choose to work a non union job, don't be so jealous of the union.

For those that spew hatred and death threats towards union members I have one thing to say. **** YOU!

[dbiker207]

The unions are garbage. They inflate the price of goods and serve no purpose what so ever. The union leaders steal money from the workforce and advocate doing little to no work for great pay. They are the scum of the earth in my opinion.

[rayhawk]

Originally Posted by Silverado57

Anyone who is singing the blues that they don't get paid enough has options. Like get an education and get a better job.

The days of the free lunch should be over. Free health insurance, juicy retirement plans and other benefits need to stop for unions, teachers and government employees. It's time for those employees to start contributing to their benefit plans.

I'll use my home state of NJ as an example. Property taxes are through the roof. It's not unusual for people to be paying $10,000 per year in property taxes for a modest home. $15K to $20K per year is not unheard of. A lot of property taxes go to funding "education" - meaning teacher salaries and benefits. Back in 2009 to 2013 or so, people were losing their jobs or didn't get raises. In NJ, unionized teachers continued to get raises of 2% or 3% per year - on the backs of people that were losing their homes in foreclosure. For state employees, it's a similar story and it's choking the taxpayers. The state is in a shaky financial situation due to the benefits for state employees. It's time to change all this.

There are places in America where cars, motorcycles and other durable goods are being made without union employees. I haven't heard many stories of parts falling off things not made in union shops.

Well said. Public sector jobs are insulated from global economic forces that the rest of the country has to deal with.

[ChevyRules]

Originally Posted by Emoto

I don't believe in an adversarial relationship between labor and management. It is a bad paradigm that the union has generated by pitting the labor force against the company it works for, rather than partnering and finding ways for the company to do better. It distorts the labor market and increases costs. YMMV.

That sounds great and all and when the company has good management, that will usually happen. As I stated a few pages back, you would never have to worry about a union if you treat your employees right and take care of them. I’m not for adversarial relationships between labor and management. I absolutely believe they should work together to make things work. Management is quick to approach the union for concessions when things are doing poorly. But they aren’t keen on giving back when things are doing well.

Once again I point to American Airlines in 2003. You want adversarial, AA management burned any good will the union had when they asked them for concessions in order to prevent bankruptcy, they accepted, and a company apparently short on money gives their management bonuses for getting concessions. That was management creating adversary, not the union.