[nicktechla]

Originally Posted by Can'tHave2MuchHP

That's what I said. The person I quoted said "Is this car a Stick?"...

It was late, I can't read

[GT-ER]

Originally Posted by BMWM.D.

As much as I really don’t like that dude’s click-bait video style, I’ve watched some of his stuff. I’m pretty sure he does not run meth. I think people are underestimating the parasitic draw of a blower spun hard, along with how much extra fuel E85 requires. I am a little surprised those numbers aren’t on some kind of race fuel for octane, but fuel supply wise, I’m not totally shocked.

I don't think I'm underestimating the drive losses of a supercharger, but I don't think I've seen over 700whp on a non-meth setup (cam or not) and this guy put 1050whp! That's 350whp more. No way that's from SC drive losses. Maybe 100whp sure, but the other 250whp must be from purely an efficiency standpoint (cooler more dense air) or perhaps you CAN do much better than 700whp is you upgrade your low side?

[Markoz28]

I think there’s an understanding that the zl1 is limited by fuel but you need to consider all the variables. Such as the motor is built. Which could mean lower compression, better material, larger cubic inch displacement, forced induction, heck even the gravitation of the moon might play into it. But not everything runs the same. You have to consider all variables. Nicks car is a different animal from any stock zl1.

[WEAPON-X]

Stock LT4 injectors are equivalent to approx 1500cc, which we all know can make 1000whp. The problem is the injection window on a DI car for when the fuel can spray. Aftermarket cams have different windows to allow the SOI to be changed.

Although the specific gravity of c16 is very similar to 93, I have seen firsthand the lackof rail drop on it vs 93 oddly; however, we all also know e85 consumes a considerably higher amount in the 30-40% range.

800+ wheel HP is very achievable on 93 with the stock high side and our low side fuel kit, the problem is the stock blower cannot reach this without being overspun to the moon, and that takes octane. With direct port meth, e85, a ton of cooling, and a 28k blower RPM, we have seen around 850whp/tq out of the stock blower, but it's on borrowed time for sure. The 103 throttlebody had such a high velocity to it that we had to have a special motor in it to keep it from fluttering and tripping CELs.

I can assure you that the parasitic loss is at least 200whp with that combination as they increase exponentially the faster you spin the blower off the map.

As mentioned, turbos have a much lower parasitic loss, BUT they also do not deplete the rail down low either like a PD blower. This is why you see most of these guys engine dynoing TTs with their larger DI pump and injectors as it makes the products look much more beneficial, and using MS109 vs e85 as well for a much lower fuel demand with the octane benefit. Then guys buy that and put it in a PD blower car and cannot make 1000whp because their fuel demand is instant down low and they are using pump ethanol for octane as well.

So I do believe this could squeak out 1000hp, but as you can see by the AFR, the injectors aren't the issue, but the injection window.

[GT-ER]

Originally Posted by WEAPON-X

Stock LT4 injectors are equivalent to approx 1500cc, which we all know can make 1000whp. The problem is the injection window on a DI car for when the fuel can spray. Aftermarket cams have different windows to allow the SOI to be changed.

Although the specific gravity of c16 is very similar to 93, I have seen firsthand the lackof rail drop on it vs 93 oddly; however, we all also know e85 consumes a considerably higher amount in the 30-40% range.

800+ wheel HP is very achievable on 93 with the stock high side and our low side fuel kit, the problem is the stock blower cannot reach this without being overspun to the moon, and that takes octane. With direct port meth, e85, a ton of cooling, and a 28k blower RPM, we have seen around 850whp/tq out of the stock blower, but it's on borrowed time for sure. The 103 throttlebody had such a high velocity to it that we had to have a special motor in it to keep it from fluttering and tripping CELs.

I can assure you that the parasitic loss is at least 200whp with that combination as they increase exponentially the faster you spin the blower off the map.

As mentioned, turbos have a much lower parasitic loss, BUT they also do not deplete the rail down low either like a PD blower. This is why you see most of these guys engine dynoing TTs with their larger DI pump and injectors as it makes the products look much more beneficial, and using MS109 vs e85 as well for a much lower fuel demand with the octane benefit. Then guys buy that and put it in a PD blower car and cannot make 1000whp because their fuel demand is instant down low and they are using pump ethanol for octane as well.

So I do believe this could squeak out 1000hp, but as you can see by the AFR, the injectors aren't the issue, but the injection window.

Excellent post. Thank you. Makes sense the DI injector window would be smaller than that of a port injector. I just have a hard time believing the stock SC will gobble up much more than 100hp...not saying it's not possible though.

I know the oem blower is a joke but I don't want to go with a TT setup cause it's crazy expensive and complex. I wouldn't mind getting a Whipple, or even a 2300 Maggie, but I just haven't seen anyone push those to more than 700whp either without meth or cam and those should be much easier to drive and make far more efficient boost than the oem unit. Is that even possible?

I just wish fuel systems weren't so crazy expensive.

[BMWM.D.]

Originally Posted by WEAPON-X

I can assure you that the parasitic loss is at least 200whp with that combination as they increase exponentially the faster you spin the blower off the map.

.

That’s about what I was thinking.

[MR 45TH]

Originally Posted by GT-ER

I don't think I'm underestimating the drive losses of a supercharger, but I don't think I've seen over 700whp on a non-meth setup (cam or not) and this guy put 1050whp!

Remember he is also not running a stock engine.

[Can'tHave2MuchHP]

Originally Posted by WEAPON-X

Stock LT4 injectors are equivalent to approx 1500cc, which we all know can make 1000whp. The problem is the injection window on a DI car for when the fuel can spray. Aftermarket cams have different windows to allow the SOI to be changed.

Although the specific gravity of c16 is very similar to 93, I have seen firsthand the lackof rail drop on it vs 93 oddly; however, we all also know e85 consumes a considerably higher amount in the 30-40% range.

800+ wheel HP is very achievable on 93 with the stock high side and our low side fuel kit, the problem is the stock blower cannot reach this without being overspun to the moon, and that takes octane. With direct port meth, e85, a ton of cooling, and a 28k blower RPM, we have seen around 850whp/tq out of the stock blower, but it's on borrowed time for sure. The 103 throttlebody had such a high velocity to it that we had to have a special motor in it to keep it from fluttering and tripping CELs.

I can assure you that the parasitic loss is at least 200whp with that combination as they increase exponentially the faster you spin the blower off the map.

As mentioned, turbos have a much lower parasitic loss, BUT they also do not deplete the rail down low either like a PD blower. This is why you see most of these guys engine dynoing TTs with their larger DI pump and injectors as it makes the products look much more beneficial, and using MS109 vs e85 as well for a much lower fuel demand with the octane benefit. Then guys buy that and put it in a PD blower car and cannot make 1000whp because their fuel demand is instant down low and they are using pump ethanol for octane as well.

So I do believe this could squeak out 1000hp, but as you can see by the AFR, the injectors aren't the issue, but the injection window.

Excellent post, thank you.

[Drsagacity]

- Laynlo was running over 700whp on stock LT1 with alky injection (ran over 200 times till seal failure).
- JRE super Street Brawler with 10psi is running about 750whp (700whp with 8psi)...includes LT4 fuel system and BAP, no meth.
There are several guys with Maggie that are north of 700’s. Shizzy just posted over 880whp with Maggie, LT4 fuel system, 80% e85.

[wnta1ss]

Originally Posted by Drsagacity

- Laynlo was running over 700whp on stock LT1 with alky injection (ran over 200 times till seal failure).

Actually he had more fuel upgrades than just the alky/water system. He also had a Lingenfelter big-bore hpfp and LT4 injectors.

[Rlhay2]

Originally Posted by GT-ER

I just have a hard time believing the stock SC will gobble up much more than 100hp...not saying it's not possible though.

Bear in mind it is also operating out of its "efficiency zone". Compressors have an ideal range where they work best. Over spinning moves the compressor out of this range.

I know the oem blower is a joke but I don't want to go with a TT setup cause it's crazy expensive and complex.

I just wish fuel systems weren't so crazy expensive.

The Hellion TT setup is ~$11K. When compared to a Whipple and headers and a cold air intake, the costs are comparable

And like you, I also wish the fuel systems were more affordable. They will be in time, triple pump system were once ridiculous now they are somewhat reasonable.

[GT-ER]

Originally Posted by Drsagacity

- Laynlo was running over 700whp on stock LT1 with alky injection (ran over 200 times till seal failure).
- JRE super Street Brawler with 10psi is running about 750whp (700whp with 8psi)...includes LT4 fuel system and BAP, no meth.
There are several guys with Maggie that are north of 700’s. Shizzy just posted over 880whp with Maggie, LT4 fuel system, 80% e85.

I'm talking about with no meth, mostly stock fuel system (maybe a cam or a BAP) so the first one you mention doesn't count.

Curious about the other two, any build info I can read? I tried searching for them and found some posts from ShizzySupra but can't find a build thread with details. :(

[GT-ER]

Originally Posted by Rlhay2

Bear in mind it is also operating out of its "efficiency zone". Compressors have an ideal range where they work best. Over spinning moves the compressor out of this range.

The Hellion TT setup is ~$11K. When compared to a Whipple and headers and a cold air intake, the costs are comparable

And like you, I also wish the fuel systems were more affordable. They will be in time, triple pump system were once ridiculous now they are somewhat reasonable.

I agree. But there is also the complexity.

[Drsagacity]

Originally Posted by GT-ER

I'm talking about with no meth, mostly stock fuel system (maybe a cam or a BAP) so the first one you mention doesn't count.

Curious about the other two, any build info I can read? I tried searching for them and found some posts from ShizzySupra but can't find a build thread with details. :(

If you go to the FI section, you can search for super Street Brawler. That’s actually my setup (so I have some threads there with that title too). I am running 8psi now and will be around 700whp waiting for the smaller pulley to arrive so I can go to 10psi. One other vert beat me to it. There were other SSB threads where they did 700 on 93 (11psi) and 720 on e85 (8psi)...and then 750whp on e85 and 10psi...

There are a handful of other guys toohighpsi was the first, but now he’s way built beyond stock, Shizzy and Stefano both have Maggie’s on kind of regular builds. There are similarly some really solid Whipple builds with big power, but no 1/4 mile times yet.

Laynlo, was pushing to see how far he could take the stock motor. He ran the stock motor with alky and the big bore pump over 200 times with 1/4 mile runs. He did add the lt4 injectors this year too. He also switched to race fuel at the track...but did his stuff with the stock cam. His methanol setup was really to control IAT’s at the track where he was running multiple times.

Again, your thread and comments caught my attention, so I am just throwing out some of the folks I know about. I am sure there are many others.