[laynlo15]

Originally Posted by JSH

What MAT are you seeing cruising and at red line?

I looked at my log for the 9.86@142, IATs at the 1320 were 111 and MAT was 117. A mid day pass that I ran 9.94@141 Iats were 111 and MAT was 119 A later evening pass in the evening on a 9.90@141 pass the IATS were 108 and MAT was 113. These were at the big end so staying pretty cool all the way down track. Coming down the return road after all the passes MAT was mid 120s and IATs were mid teens.

[Joshinator99]

Originally Posted by laynlo15

I looked at my log for the 9.86@142, IATs at the 1320 were 111 and MAT was 117. A mid day pass that I ran 9.94@141 Iats were 111 and MAT was 119 A later evening pass in the evening on a 9.90@141 pass the IATS were 108 and MAT was 113. These were at the big end so staying pretty cool all the way down track. Coming down the return road after all the passes MAT was mid 120s and IATs were mid teens.

What was ambient air temp and DA that day? That will obviously have a big effect on IAT/MAT. Tough to compare numbers without knowing that info.

[laynlo15]

Originally Posted by Joshinator99

What was ambient air temp and DA that day? That will obviously have a big effect on IAT/MAT. Tough to compare numbers without knowing that info.

56 degrees on the 9.86 DA was 294, 59 degrees on the 9.94 and 541 DA, 9.90 was 62 degrees and 658 DA

[Joshinator99]

Originally Posted by laynlo15

56 degrees on the 9.86 DA was 294, 59 degrees on the 9.94 and 541 DA, 9.90 was 62 degrees and 658 DA

Damn, that’s good drag racing weather. Warm enough for the track to stick but low enough DA to make good power.

[laynlo15]

Originally Posted by Joshinator99

Damn, that’s good drag racing weather. Warm enough for the track to stick but low enough DA to make good power.

When we were at the LS Fest it was much warmer, our IATs were still really low but we weren't tracking the MAT on our logs then so not sure what they were. I have some street log in warmer weather with the MAT reading but I'd have to go back and take a look at those.

[toohighpsi]

Unfortunately a big intercooler doesn't always mean better...this is the case with the Edelbrock.

These cooling systems require finding the best balance (compromise) between pressure drop and airflow distribution to ensure intercooler effectiveness.

The Edelbrock has a large flat core - the larger and thinner the core is the more difficult it is to drive distribution and make use of the core. From the testing that we performed, the Ebrock has a low pressure drop across the cooler, but along with that a low effectiveness - resulting in the high outlet temperatures at high RPM. This isn't noticed at low pressure ratios, but become more apparent at higher pressure ratio (and at your altitude you're running a lot of pressure ratio).

Months of performance stand testing and multiple iterations were required to get the Maggie 2650 intercoolers system to perform at the same capability of the TVS2650 rotating group (The Maggie 2650 was the last to market). As ZL1Atlanta eluded to in his post, no matter how hard he pushed the Maggie 2650 it was able to stay in line temperature wise, that isn't a coincidence, it is as designed.

Porting the Ebrock can bring the flow capability of the unit up to par with the Maggie 2650, but it doesn't do anything to address the cooling issues with the unit. It's overall a good unit, but just at a slightly different level than the Maggie so comparisons will always yield the same result.

Fortunately if you can run full E85, you probably have nothing to worry about - the manifold temps you're referring to shouldn't be a problem with adequate octane fuel. Remember with a positive displacement SC (unlike a turbo or centrifugal), will not provide a significant increase in power with lower manifold air temperatures unless you are knock limited and reducing timing. The only way to make a positive displacement SC to move more air is to spin it faster or reduce SC inlet pressure drop - the PD supercharger completely dominates the airflow capability of the engine.

[ZL1Atlanta]

This was only at 19.5 psi, but it's the pass in my signature (tire size messes with the MPH). We didn't ice the car because it was supposed to be a shakedown pass. So it was water that was left in the ice tank after letting the car sit running to get operating temp and a burnout. It was a cool day at 68 degrees (1038 DA), but the behavior of how the temps fluctuate is common with the EMP pump even if it starts at 110 degrees. I don't have any HX's in the car either.

[JSH]

Originally Posted by EDFHOBBIES

... a 19 psi car with a "heat exchanger upgrade", 5 gal tank and stewart pump in 100 degrees and show me the temps also with oil pressure temp on display so we know the car is heated like I did along w coolant temps.

Which heat exchanger do you recommend for my build? My current intercooler plumbing works but not quite well enough. Maybe a new exchanger with fans is all I need rather than larger water lines.

[radz28]

My apologies to the 2-people's posts I deleted because of the quotes from the post you guys were replying about. You know who you are, and my apologies.

To the one whom almost earned an infraction: grow up and find a better way to communicate. I don't care what issues you have. Sort it out, and post respectfully.

[ZL1Atlanta]

Originally Posted by toohighpsi

Unfortunately a big intercooler doesn't always mean better...this is the case with the Edelbrock.

These cooling systems require finding the best balance (compromise) between pressure drop and airflow distribution to ensure intercooler effectiveness.

The Edelbrock has a large flat core - the larger and thinner the core is the more difficult it is to drive distribution and make use of the core. From the testing that we performed, the Ebrock has a low pressure drop across the cooler, but along with that a low effectiveness - resulting in the high outlet temperatures at high RPM. This isn't noticed at low pressure ratios, but become more apparent at higher pressure ratio (and at your altitude you're running a lot of pressure ratio).

Months of performance stand testing and multiple iterations were required to get the Maggie 2650 intercoolers system to perform at the same capability of the TVS2650 rotating group (The Maggie 2650 was the last to market). As ZL1Atlanta eluded to in his post, no matter how hard he pushed the Maggie 2650 it was able to stay in line temperature wise, that isn't a coincidence, it is as designed.

Porting the Ebrock can bring the flow capability of the unit up to par with the Maggie 2650, but it doesn't do anything to address the cooling issues with the unit. It's overall a good unit, but just at a slightly different level than the Maggie so comparisons will always yield the same result.

Fortunately if you can run full E85, you probably have nothing to worry about - the manifold temps you're referring to shouldn't be a problem with adequate octane fuel. Remember with a positive displacement SC (unlike a turbo or centrifugal), will not provide a significant increase in power with lower manifold air temperatures unless you are knock limited and reducing timing. The only way to make a positive displacement SC to move more air is to spin it faster or reduce SC inlet pressure drop - the PD supercharger completely dominates the airflow capability of the engine.

I saw some comments replying to this post that have been deleted, so I won't harp on that, but I did want to say that Mike's (toohighpsi) advice has been crucial in the results of my build - both with how the engine is designed, how we spin the blower, and of course the products he makes that supply fuel and keep the belt slip under control. I would not discount his advice based on someone's disagreements with him because my car is proof that it is valuable.

The one piece of his post I want to highlight around temps, just because I've experienced it, is that with good fuel, and assuming it isn't pulling timing, there's no reason to analyze things down to a few degrees. At ~1400 RWHP, the difference between hot water and ice water in my tank was 24 RWHP on the dyno. Every bit helps when you're hunting down tenths of a second, but I think most on here are not.

[laynlo15]

Originally Posted by ZL1Atlanta

I saw some comments replying to this post that have been deleted, so I won't harp on that, but I did want to say that Mike's (toohighpsi) advice has been crucial in the results of my build - both with how the engine is designed, how we spin the blower, and of course the products he makes that supply fuel and keep the belt slip under control. I would not discount his advice based on someone's disagreements with him because my car is proof that it is valuable.

The one piece of his post I want to highlight around temps, just because I've experienced it, is that with good fuel, and assuming it isn't pulling timing, there's no reason to analyze things down to a few degrees. At ~1400 RWHP, the difference between hot water and ice water in my tank was 24 RWHP on the dyno. Every bit helps when you're hunting down tenths of a second, but I think most on here are not.

Well said Jason, thanks for posting your experiences and findings.

[radz28]

Originally Posted by ZL1Atlanta

I saw some comments replying to this post that have been deleted, so I won't harp on that, but I did want to say that Mike's (toohighpsi) advice has been crucial in the results of my build - both with how the engine is designed, how we spin the blower, and of course the products he makes that supply fuel and keep the belt slip under control. I would not discount his advice based on someone's disagreements with him because my car is proof that it is valuable.

The one piece of his post I want to highlight around temps, just because I've experienced it, is that with good fuel, and assuming it isn't pulling timing, there's no reason to analyze things down to a few degrees. At ~1400 RWHP, the difference between hot water and ice water in my tank was 24 RWHP on the dyno. Every bit helps when you're hunting down tenths of a second, but I think most on here are not.

Thanks to you, and everyone else to try to stay on track, and helpful on the topic. There wasn't much from the original post that wasn't posted elsewhere , but in a slightly more respectful manner. At least it sounds like Mike had actual hands-on with the Edelbrock and that drove Magnuson to go a different direction with their design. I haven't seen anything but great numbers from the likes of CSP and RPM (just as examples) with the Edelbrocks, but I know Edelbrock has a little history with LS3 2300, and maybe that's the expense for pushing something to market first.

I know Jack's history was, in part, to do with frustration with how long it took for Magnuson to come out with their 2650, but, as Mike said: they took their time to design the kit they thought would perform better. Maybe it does - maybe it doesn't. All I know is my MATs fall as soon as I get into the gas every time.

[JSH]

EDFHobbies
Which aftermarket exchanger do you recommend?

ZL1Atlanta
I'm not chasing each hp, but would like to reduce IAT/MAT temps a bit, as long as it only requires larger water lines or upgraded exchanger and nothing major.

[Joshinator99]

Originally Posted by ZL1Atlanta

I saw some comments replying to this post that have been deleted, so I won't harp on that, but I did want to say that Mike's (toohighpsi) advice has been crucial in the results of my build - both with how the engine is designed, how we spin the blower, and of course the products he makes that supply fuel and keep the belt slip under control. I would not discount his advice based on someone's disagreements with him because my car is proof that it is valuable.

The one piece of his post I want to highlight around temps, just because I've experienced it, is that with good fuel, and assuming it isn't pulling timing, there's no reason to analyze things down to a few degrees. At ~1400 RWHP, the difference between hot water and ice water in my tank was 24 RWHP on the dyno. Every bit helps when you're hunting down tenths of a second, but I think most on here are not.

Originally Posted by laynlo15

Well said Jason, thanks for posting your experiences and findings.

Agreed on both counts. So much great info being posted lately. I’m loving it!