Dealer dilemma at delivery

therza · 05-13-2016, 07:59 PM

Long story, medium version. Back in early March, I went to a local, small, family owned Chevrolet dealer near me. I had never done business with them but after looking at some Camaro's and talking to them, they seemed like good people. I corresponded with the salesperson, (related to the owner) and he said he would sell me the car at invoice plus the local documentation fee of $500. I spec'd out a car and he quoted me an invoice price via email.

When I went to order it, I decided to not order the performance brake package. (If I track it who knows what I will do for brakes.) That of course lowered the invoice, but I don't know by how much. He built the car in the Workbench and printed out a detailed summary that clearly showed MSRP and Invoice with the destination fee added. He asked me to sign and date it and gave me a copy. It seemed like that was our deal.

When he filled out the "buyer's order" he left all the pricing on the right hand side blank and on the left side, in a blank area, he typed "Camaro will be sold at INV plus D&H and tax". (D&H being their documentation fee.) This made me a bit uneasy but I thought, hey, they seem like really, really nice people. I felt I could trust them. I should have known better.

Yesterday the car arrives and I stopped by to look at it prior to PDI. I asked for a copy of the invoice so I would know what exactly the sales contract number would be. (The MSRP of the car matched the MSRP of the paperwork I signed when I ordered the car.) Lo and behold there is over $900 in "regional advertising" added to THIS copy of the invoice. (I didn't realize this until I got home and compared it to the invoice I had from March.) I called the sales person and said what is going on. He starts into this whole speech about how advertising is only added to the invoice AFTER the car is built. And yes, that is the NEW dollar amount they are going to charge me - $900+ more than what my paperwork said. He gets rather indignant and says "you should have known that regional advertising is added on after the car is built." Say what?? I can trouble shoot a 10G fiber ring between LA and SF, but I don't know jack about how cars are invoiced!!

After a heated discussion he said he will talk to his GM in the morning. (Just like the movie Fargo!!) But after all this BS, I am now frustrated, angry and all the joy of picking up a new Camaro has been completely drained from every cell in my body. Mainly I am angry with myself for not listening to my alarm bells that went off when I signed a "blank" contract! And I am angry for him trying to humiliate me into thinking this is all my own fault for not knowing how Chevrolet invoicing works! That really made my blood boil.

Last night I composed a well written email explaining how they completely ruined my car buying expierence. Picking up the car now is / was going to be really sad time.

After more arguing this morning with the salesperson, the sales manager, they agreed to honor the original invoice price they gave me.

Here is my dilemma. I am so frustrated that they lied to me, tried to humiliate me and now want to pretend it was all an "honest mistake". Picking up the car from them is going to be painful. Having to write them a very large check is going to be painful. I will be pissed off and frustrated all over again.

I am really torn between just dumping the car and not going through with the delivery. I want the car, but after they pissed in the pool, I don't feel like going for a swim!

Thoughts?

SuperSound · 05-13-2016, 08:05 PM

You got what you wanted at the price you agreed before. I'd call it a win and move on. Just remember you will probably get a survey for them later.

Glen e · 05-13-2016, 08:12 PM

You never really "stick it to the dealer" when you turn down a delivery of a car. He just turns around and sells it again. Take the car and go have fun.....

laborsmith · 05-13-2016, 08:19 PM

Both SuperSound and Glen e are correct. If it makes you feel better, the regional fees will be paid, but by the dealer instead of you.

Maybe that is why the dealer fee is $500: goes a long way toward defraying the regional fee cost.

Laborsmith

therza · 05-13-2016, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperSound

You got what you wanted at the price you agreed before. I'd call it a win and move on. Just remember you will probably get a survey for them later.

Yeah, in exchange for honoring the price they quoted me in March, I am supposed to "promise" to give them a 100% satisfied survey....

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glen e

You never really "stick it to the dealer" when you turn down a delivery of a car. He just turns around and sells it again. Take the car and go have fun.....

I am not trying to "stick it to the dealer". I just don't feel like rewarding that kind of behavior. It feels almost complicit................

G6CamJK · 05-13-2016, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by therza

Yeah, in exchange for honoring the price they quoted me in March, I am supposed to "promise" to give them a 100% satisfied survey....
.

You give the survey response you want to give and if they come back and bitch about it you tell them they should know how customer surveys work..

enzia35 · 05-13-2016, 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G6CamJK

You give the survey response you want to give and if they come back and bitch about it you tell them they should know how customer surveys work..

Winning!

mjw930 · 05-13-2016, 10:52 PM

That's why I love the supplier program, fixed price, no negotiation, no surprises. Yes, sometimes I pay a couple hundred more than some claim but most of the time I pay hundreds, even thousands less than most.

To be fair, invoice is what the dealer pays for the car, that includes regional advertising fees. The contract was for invoice price which the dealer won't know until the car is invoiced as advertising fees can vary over the year. Some dealers choose to not participate in various advertising programs so their "invoice" price could be lower than the dealer down the street who does participate. I see this as more of a misunderstanding than any slight of hand by the dealer but they should have explained to you up front the price would be ~xxx dollars higher than the number printed on the workbook printout. Lesson learned.....

Sev · 05-13-2016, 11:08 PM

Don't let this hiccup keep you from your enjoyment. The situation got resolved in your favor, and you have no loyalty to them what-so-ever. Sign the dotted lone and enjoy your new Gen6!

therza · 05-14-2016, 07:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mjw930

That's why I love the supplier program, fixed price, no negotiation, no surprises. Yes, sometimes I pay a couple hundred more than some claim but most of the time I pay hundreds, even thousands less than most.

To be fair, invoice is what the dealer pays for the car, that includes regional advertising fees. The contract was for invoice price which the dealer won't know until the car is invoiced as advertising fees can vary over the year. Some dealers choose to not participate in various advertising programs so their "invoice" price could be lower than the dealer down the street who does participate. I see this as more of a misunderstanding than any slight of hand by the dealer but they should have explained to you up front the price would be ~xxx dollars higher than the number printed on the workbook printout. Lesson learned.....

I have been able to use the supplier program in the past and yes, it is very cut and dried. Liked it a lot. But I don't work for that company any more and therefore don't have access to the supplier program now.

Maybe it was a misunderstanding and maybe it was a slight of hand. I will never know for sure. But what really set me off was the "blame the customer" approach the salesperson took when I called him up and said "these numbers are way apart, what gives?" He jumped in and got in my face right from the get go. Almost as if he were reading a script or giving me the "prepared speech". Looking back, there was not even a split second of "the numbers don't line up - let me look into that". It seems he had that conversation before, many times before.

I went back through my email chain and found an email after we negotiated a deal where I asked him if there were ANY hidden fees, extra costs, anything that was going to jump up and bite me at delivery. He replied there were none. So either he truly just figured I already knew that GM would add the regional advertising fees in or he was playing a game with me. I think its a pretty damn big stretch to assume that someone who buys a new car every few years, from various manufacturers would know how GM invoices cars!

I think the other thing that upset me the most was that I THOUGHT I had finally found a dealer that was open and honest. A dealer with integrity where I didn't have to have my radar up and operating on high alert. I thought I had found a dealer who was different. When that fantasy blew up, I was upset that I had been so stupid as to think such a dealer even exists. That really is the LESSON LEARNED. Dealers with integrity (and competence) are as elusive as the Loch Ness monster. Its back to radar on high alert whenever I am dealing with a car dealer. Disappointing, but true.

Thanks to everyone for your responses. It helped me clear my head. I am going to go pick up the car and get this nasty experience over. Some will say "you got what you wanted", what's the problem. No, I wanted a great customer experience from beginning to end. That didn't happen. Oh well. Time to just move on.

PS No disrespect to Becky. I actually reached out to her about doing a deal but the logistics were just a little too much for me. She was very cool to deal with!!!

andrec10 · 05-14-2016, 07:48 AM

Take the car and give them the survey they deserve! That will piss them off more than you know!

G Fo12ce · 05-14-2016, 08:04 AM

As others have said I'd take it, you won.

FWIW when I did what you did I learned about the advert fee too but my Salesman showed it on his print out and included it in what he considered it to be their invoice. Then he proceeded to tell me the car would be X amount under invoice which was still under what I considered invoice to be so I didn't care it was on there.

Someone on the forums told me it's a legit fee and varies by area. Mine was about the same amount so I'm going to guess you live in a major market. I don't think they tried to slide in a bogus fee to gouge you, they should have told you up front though. So I think you are right to still be annoyed. I'd probably put in the survey to GM that they should not be charging the dealer that fee where it's passed onto the customer. Commercials, funneling web customers to dealer and advertising should be "the cost of doing business" for GM. Not something they try to have YOU pay for in my opinion.

Glen e · 05-14-2016, 08:05 AM

When a dealer knows you're going to give him a bad survey, sometimes they will transpose numbers in your address/email when they register the car, that way you never get the survey. So call customer relations and ask them what is the exact details of the way the dealer registered the car. When he does this, it also means you don't get recall notices.

therza · 05-14-2016, 08:13 AM

The skeptic in me thinks that how GM does it is not accidental. It gives the dealer a lower "invoice" to get the customer to sign the deal, and then a higher "invoice" to get more money for the dealer, assuming the customer just shuts up and pays it.

Perhaps I am making them out to be more cunning than they are, but given all the shit dealers have tried to pull on me, and all the horror stories I have heard, I would not put it past them!

I play golf with a guy who owns some car dealers and a neighbor who is the GM of a Porsche dealership. I get to listen to them bitch about crazy customers. The truth lies somewhere in the middle...............

05-13-2016, 07:59 PM	#1
therza Drives: 2014 shelby Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: rocky mountains Posts: 31	Dealer dilemma at delivery Long story, medium version. Back in early March, I went to a local, small, family owned Chevrolet dealer near me. I had never done business with them but after looking at some Camaro's and talking to them, they seemed like good people. I corresponded with the salesperson, (related to the owner) and he said he would sell me the car at invoice plus the local documentation fee of $500. I spec'd out a car and he quoted me an invoice price via email. When I went to order it, I decided to not order the performance brake package. (If I track it who knows what I will do for brakes.) That of course lowered the invoice, but I don't know by how much. He built the car in the Workbench and printed out a detailed summary that clearly showed MSRP and Invoice with the destination fee added. He asked me to sign and date it and gave me a copy. It seemed like that was our deal. When he filled out the "buyer's order" he left all the pricing on the right hand side blank and on the left side, in a blank area, he typed "Camaro will be sold at INV plus D&H and tax". (D&H being their documentation fee.) This made me a bit uneasy but I thought, hey, they seem like really, really nice people. I felt I could trust them. I should have known better. Yesterday the car arrives and I stopped by to look at it prior to PDI. I asked for a copy of the invoice so I would know what exactly the sales contract number would be. (The MSRP of the car matched the MSRP of the paperwork I signed when I ordered the car.) Lo and behold there is over $900 in "regional advertising" added to THIS copy of the invoice. (I didn't realize this until I got home and compared it to the invoice I had from March.) I called the sales person and said what is going on. He starts into this whole speech about how advertising is only added to the invoice AFTER the car is built. And yes, that is the NEW dollar amount they are going to charge me - $900+ more than what my paperwork said. He gets rather indignant and says "you should have known that regional advertising is added on after the car is built." Say what?? I can trouble shoot a 10G fiber ring between LA and SF, but I don't know jack about how cars are invoiced!! After a heated discussion he said he will talk to his GM in the morning. (Just like the movie Fargo!!) But after all this BS, I am now frustrated, angry and all the joy of picking up a new Camaro has been completely drained from every cell in my body. Mainly I am angry with myself for not listening to my alarm bells that went off when I signed a "blank" contract! And I am angry for him trying to humiliate me into thinking this is all my own fault for not knowing how Chevrolet invoicing works! That really made my blood boil. Last night I composed a well written email explaining how they completely ruined my car buying expierence. Picking up the car now is / was going to be really sad time. After more arguing this morning with the salesperson, the sales manager, they agreed to honor the original invoice price they gave me. Here is my dilemma. I am so frustrated that they lied to me, tried to humiliate me and now want to pretend it was all an "honest mistake". Picking up the car from them is going to be painful. Having to write them a very large check is going to be painful. I will be pissed off and frustrated all over again. I am really torn between just dumping the car and not going through with the delivery. I want the car, but after they pissed in the pool, I don't feel like going for a swim! Thoughts?

05-13-2016, 08:05 PM	#2
SuperSound Drives: '17 Camaro 2SS A8 Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: Eastern NC Posts: 5,063 View My Garage	You got what you wanted at the price you agreed before. I'd call it a win and move on. Just remember you will probably get a survey for them later. __________________ Current: '17 2SS Hyper Blue, A8, MRC, NPP Past: '99 SS Camaro A4, '73 Camaro 383 A3 "Voices in your head are not considered insider information." 3800 Status - 6/16/16 (Built!) 6000 status - 6/29/16 (Delivered!)

05-13-2016, 08:12 PM	#3
Glen e Retired from Car mfrs.... Drives: 2LT RS/HR-V Join Date: May 2013 Location: /Fort Lauderdale Posts: 10,048	You never really "stick it to the dealer" when you turn down a delivery of a car. He just turns around and sells it again. Take the car and go have fun..... __________________ Glen CLICK HERE for detailing a new car: detailing for non detailers CLICK HERE for how to rinseless CLICK HERE for EASY wheel sealant

05-13-2016, 11:08 PM	#9
Sev Drives: 2016 2SS / 2004 Tacoma Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: Meadow Vista, CA Posts: 795	Don't let this hiccup keep you from your enjoyment. The situation got resolved in your favor, and you have no loyalty to them what-so-ever. Sign the dotted lone and enjoy your new Gen6! __________________ 2SS, Manual, Blue Velvet Metallic, Medium Ash Grey, Black Wheels, MRC, NPP, Black Bowties, Black GM Tail Lights, Oracle LED side markers. "I'm going to drink you pretty, beautiful toad"

05-14-2016, 07:48 AM	#11
andrec10 Drives: 2016 Camaro 2SS 6SP/Suby Legacy 6 Join Date: Oct 2015 Location: Hyde Park, NY Posts: 844	Take the car and give them the survey they deserve! That will piss them off more than you know! __________________ TFPK40 Its Here! Finally came home on 3-31-16! Red Hot 2SS,6 Speed, NPP, MRC, Adrenaline Red interior, Silver Rally Stripes, NAV, Sunroof, 56W Split Spoke Wheels, Body color Hood vents, Body color Splash Guards and winter protection package. Ordered 1-28-16: 1100 2-11-2016 :2000 2-15-2016: 3000 TPW of 3/7...That went quick! 2-26-2016: 3400 Status TPW 3/7 3-5-2016 : 3800 3-8-2016 : 4300 3-11-2016 : 4B00 3-15-2016 : 4200 3-22-2016 : 4800 3-29-2016 : 6000!

05-13-2016, 08:19 PM	#4
laborsmith Drives: 1969 Corvair, 2018 Camaro T4 RS Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Detroit Metropolitan Area Posts: 2,881	Both SuperSound and Glen e are correct. If it makes you feel better, the regional fees will be paid, but by the dealer instead of you. Maybe that is why the dealer fee is $500: goes a long way toward defraying the regional fee cost. Laborsmith

05-13-2016, 10:52 PM	#8
mjw930 Drives: 2015 Porsche BGTS, 2016 2SS Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Ormond Beach, FL Posts: 235	That's why I love the supplier program, fixed price, no negotiation, no surprises. Yes, sometimes I pay a couple hundred more than some claim but most of the time I pay hundreds, even thousands less than most. To be fair, invoice is what the dealer pays for the car, that includes regional advertising fees. The contract was for invoice price which the dealer won't know until the car is invoiced as advertising fees can vary over the year. Some dealers choose to not participate in various advertising programs so their "invoice" price could be lower than the dealer down the street who does participate. I see this as more of a misunderstanding than any slight of hand by the dealer but they should have explained to you up front the price would be ~xxx dollars higher than the number printed on the workbook printout. Lesson learned.....

05-14-2016, 08:04 AM	#12
G Fo12ce Drives: '16 2SS Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Orange County CA Posts: 699	As others have said I'd take it, you won. FWIW when I did what you did I learned about the advert fee too but my Salesman showed it on his print out and included it in what he considered it to be their invoice. Then he proceeded to tell me the car would be X amount under invoice which was still under what I considered invoice to be so I didn't care it was on there. Someone on the forums told me it's a legit fee and varies by area. Mine was about the same amount so I'm going to guess you live in a major market. I don't think they tried to slide in a bogus fee to gouge you, they should have told you up front though. So I think you are right to still be annoyed. I'd probably put in the survey to GM that they should not be charging the dealer that fee where it's passed onto the customer. Commercials, funneling web customers to dealer and advertising should be "the cost of doing business" for GM. Not something they try to have YOU pay for in my opinion. __________________ My Intro Post \| My Order \| My Ordering Guide TJCR2Q \| 2SS Red Hot\|Adrenaline Red\|MX0 A8\|56R Wheels\|5ZU Blade Spoiler\|NPP Exhaust\|F55 MRC\|IO6 Nav • 4/06/16 1100 Ordered (waiting for 5ZU acceptance) • 4/19/16 2000 Accepted with 5ZU • 4/23/16 3000 TPW:5/16/16 • 5/06/16 3100 • 5/13/16 3400 Broadcast Sheet • 5/24/16 3800 Vehicle Produced • 5/25/16 4B00 Bayed • 5/27/16 4300 Intermediate Delivery • 7/9/16 Delivered!

05-14-2016, 08:05 AM	#13
Glen e Retired from Car mfrs.... Drives: 2LT RS/HR-V Join Date: May 2013 Location: /Fort Lauderdale Posts: 10,048	When a dealer knows you're going to give him a bad survey, sometimes they will transpose numbers in your address/email when they register the car, that way you never get the survey. So call customer relations and ask them what is the exact details of the way the dealer registered the car. When he does this, it also means you don't get recall notices. __________________ Glen CLICK HERE for detailing a new car: detailing for non detailers CLICK HERE for how to rinseless CLICK HERE for EASY wheel sealant

05-14-2016, 08:13 AM	#14
therza Drives: 2014 shelby Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: rocky mountains Posts: 31	The skeptic in me thinks that how GM does it is not accidental. It gives the dealer a lower "invoice" to get the customer to sign the deal, and then a higher "invoice" to get more money for the dealer, assuming the customer just shuts up and pays it. Perhaps I am making them out to be more cunning than they are, but given all the shit dealers have tried to pull on me, and all the horror stories I have heard, I would not put it past them! I play golf with a guy who owns some car dealers and a neighbor who is the GM of a Porsche dealership. I get to listen to them bitch about crazy customers. The truth lies somewhere in the middle...............

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