[RLHMARINES]

I’m still patiently awaiting the arrival of the new GM truck 6thgen V8 engines that’s been developed with improved performance and emissions that share some similarities to the Z06’s engine but not everything.

[genxer]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

But Escalent does have data that shows that to be the case. I’ve seen it. It’s not near a majority, but a higher level than you would expect. It’s more an issue in Europe, Germany specifically, where a lot of people drive company cars and are reimbursed for fuel usage but not for their home electric bill.

Tax credits play a part in plug-ins not being charged.

If V8's can get modest plug-in miles empty that also work as a hybrid for towing, that's gravy. If truck economy is the goal, they should look at segment creating, using a new Voltec in the Ridgeline's size. Something that could look like a '67-'72.

The use experience is a big factor. The 5.7 Ram is more satisfying than the 5.3 GM, even though it's easily worse on fuel and isn't faster by feel. It kicks down and roars readily. Turbo motors spooling and are "rrrRRR pSSS" sound like they're holding back Tourette's from South Park:

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by genxer

Tax credits play a part in plug-ins not being charged.

If V8's can get modest plug-in miles empty that also work as a hybrid for towing, that's gravy. If truck economy is the goal, they should look at segment creating, using a new Voltec in the Ridgeline's size. Something that could look like a '67-'72.

The use experience is a big factor. The 5.7 Ram is more satisfying than the 5.3 GM, even though it's easily worse on fuel and isn't faster by feel. It kicks down and roars readily. Turbo motors spooling and are "rrrRRR pSSS" sound like they're holding back Tourette's from South Park:

FWIW, this is precisely what RamCharger is, but in Ram 1500 size, not Ridgeline size.

[silversleeper]

Originally Posted by silversleeper

I think a better small segment would be a compact pickup. I can't say it too emphatically because it would be my second choice of a BEV but I'm like the majority in that a small SUV fits my use better and what I actually buy now so a small pickup would have to be outstanding to get my $ but it could.

Having said that I see ford says building a Maverick BEV. I would take a hard look at buying one but I doubt it would be good for the price to me. I looked at what they put on the base model and it doesn't even have cruise control!
You gotta be kidding me. How about AC or electric windows? Is this the 70s again? Others like Toyota have a good amount standard on all their cars but what, pay $5000 to get a backup cam and emergency braking and adaptive cruise control and blind spot monitoring? I did look at a Challenger ICE and quickly ruled it out for those reasons. If the big 3 want to stay competitive... well they don't. IDK why people even look at them except work vehicles. It's a waste of time. Not to mention they say they are marking up the Mavericks over MSRP. The dealerless business model is a winner! In the Ridgeline I attached a pic of STANDARD features on their cheapest Sport model.

[chevy pilot]

Fiat 500e is going back to combustion engine.

[genxer]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

FWIW, this is precisely what RamCharger is, but in Ram 1500 size, not Ridgeline size.

A subtle size down is better for gaining capability, has lower expectations for towing economy. A Grand Cherokee is a more occasional tow-er. I expect the Pentastar is going to work hard in the Ramcharger, converting to electricity and back to motion.

[docwra]

Originally Posted by chevy pilot

Fiat 500e is going back to combustion engine.

Not quite. The "old" Fiat 500 doesnt meet EU cybersecurity standards anymore, so going forward they are using the chassis that has so far only been offered with EV powerplant, Porsche Macan and Cayman are both going to the chopping block too

>60% of Fiat 500s sold in Europe are already full EV, this is only going to increase with the new model.

[chevy pilot]

Originally Posted by docwra

Not quite. The "old" Fiat 500 doesnt meet EU cybersecurity standards anymore, so going forward they are using the chassis that has so far only been offered with EV powerplant, Porsche Macan and Cayman are both going to the chopping block too

>60% of Fiat 500s sold in Europe are already full EV, this is only going to increase with the new model.

Ok.

[Evergreen6]

Originally Posted by Capricio

We'll see how an H.O. version of the (Fiat) Hurricane holds up in a half ton with towing duty after 200k. Speaking for those of us that drive vehicles with over 200k on them, I know I'd take a NA hemi V8 any day over a high mileage forced induction anything.

I've got a GME T4 Hurricane in a Wrangler. Great engine. And the engine was produced in the US. Was the Hemi?

I'm OK with driving vehicles to 100k. After that it's time for a new one if for nothing else than boredom. Someone else can take the old one off my hands.

Speaking of which, Stella just took a seat at the table with the other automakers in the CARB pact.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by Capricio

We'll see how an H.O. version of the (Fiat) Hurricane holds up in a half ton with towing duty after 200k. Speaking for those of us that drive vehicles with over 200k on them, I know I'd take a NA hemi V8 any day over a high mileage forced induction anything.

When it comes to Fiat engines, remember that they use the same engineering talent that develops Ferrari and Alfa Romeo engines. Both brands are known for their performance. Not so much for their durability. Time will tell whether the North American team that developed and manufactured the much more robust Hemi and PentaStar engines help improve that leg of the stool.

[Evergreen6]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

I don’t think GM is even talking about “this many by that year” anymore. They’ve clearly missed the 400,000 in 2023. Plant conversion timings CAN (and will) change. GM has delayed the conversion of Orion Twp and delayed the spending associated with that. What we are expecting for GM this year (2024) is about 250k BEV this calendar year, now that they’ve worked out all their problems with Ultium yield rate. But that’s our number, not GM’s stated number.

Expect the 5.3L or similar displacement to continue to exist for quite some time. The decisions GM and other automakers have to make now on a vehicle type by vehicle type basis is whether their mid-term portfolio (2026 - 32) will be gas / xHEV / BEV or gas / BEV. And which product types go full BEV when.

I know the media likes/liked to talk about GM's goal, even if the goal has been moved. I'm guessing this will be fodder later this year for the crowd who wants to see EV's fail, but also, I'd expect even realistically falling short of that advertised goal will affect share price.

I just watched a segment on the Ultium-based Honda Prologue. Very nice. I still think I'd prefer an AWD Blazer EV.

I'd expect (prefer?) GM to continue on with the small-blocks in its full-size trucks. What's interesting to me with Stellantis and the Hemi... it's really, actually, cheaper to develop and certify a new engine than update and certify the existing Hemi to be compliant? Don't get me wrong, the I6 offers a lot more power, but it also seems like they're shutting out a lot of buyers who would actually prefer the Hemi.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by Evergreen6

I know the media likes/liked to talk about GM's goal, even if the goal has been moved. I'm guessing this will be fodder later this year for the crowd who wants to see EV's fail, but also, I'd expect even realistically falling short of that advertised goal will affect share price.

I just watched a segment on the Ultium-based Honda Prologue. Very nice. I still think I'd prefer an AWD Blazer EV.

I'd expect (prefer?) GM to continue on with the small-blocks in its full-size trucks. What's interesting to me with Stellantis and the Hemi... it's really, actually, cheaper to develop and certify a new engine than update and certify the existing Hemi to be compliant? Don't get me wrong, the I6 offers a lot more power, but it also seems like they're shutting out a lot of buyers who would actually prefer the Hemi.

It wasn’t that simple of a decision. The GME engine family had been in development for years. The L6 Hurricane is actually several years late to market, largely due to the low cost of the Hemi and the inability to set a good business case for any vehicle that replaced a Hemi with a Hurricane. So by the time it became prohibitively costly to “clean up” the Hemi, Hurricane was already on the shelf. The upside to the Hurricane is it is built on the GME engine platform which is used globally, across multiple Stellantis brands and in displacements from a 1.5L 3-cylinder to the 3.0L 6-cylinder and with multiple levels of boost. Basically a Lego engine platform. GM’s CSS engines are similar in that it stretches from a 3-cylinder to a 6-cylinder, multiple levels of boost and also has gasoline and diesel variants.

[Evergreen6]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

It wasn’t that simple of a decision. The GME engine family had been in development for years. The L6 Hurricane is actually several years late to market, largely due to the low cost of the Hemi and the inability to set a good business case for any vehicle that replaced a Hemi with a Hurricane. So by the time it became prohibitively costly to “clean up” the Hemi, Hurricane was already on the shelf. The upside to the Hurricane is it is built on the GME engine platform which is used globally, across multiple Stellantis brands and in displacements from a 1.5L 3-cylinder to the 3.0L 6-cylinder and with multiple levels of boost. Basically a Lego engine platform. GM’s CSS engines are similar in that it stretches from a 3-cylinder to a 6-cylinder, multiple levels of boost and also has gasoline and diesel variants.

I appreciate the information on the timeline. Sometimes folks like me look at things from a common sense approach. "Well, why don't they just..." but in reality, it isn't that simple!

Slightly off topic, but a while back, GM had the Atlas series of engines. Inline 4, 5, and 6 cylinders, good economy. Amazing power for the time (270hp in the new-for-2002 Trailblazer). The 5-cylinder version was a little weird in a midsize truck, but I recall the later 3.7 variant of the 5-cylinder as quite good.

I also recall GM's "High Value" series of engines being somewhat of a flash. 3.5/3.9 are the two I remember. Just...poof. One day they disappeared (from the perspective of a consumer).

What happened to all of those? Is Atlas DNA present in anything current? Did the High Value line become the High Feature series (3.6)?

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by Evergreen6

I appreciate the information on the timeline. Sometimes folks like me look at things from a common sense approach. "Well, why don't they just..." but in reality, it isn't that simple!

Slightly off topic, but a while back, GM had the Atlas series of engines. Inline 4, 5, and 6 cylinders, good economy. Amazing power for the time (270hp in the new-for-2002 Trailblazer). The 5-cylinder version was a little weird in a midsize truck, but I recall the later 3.7 variant of the 5-cylinder as quite good.

I also recall GM's "High Value" series of engines being somewhat of a flash. 3.5/3.9 are the two I remember. Just...poof. One day they disappeared (from the perspective of a consumer).

What happened to all of those? Is Atlas DNA present in anything current? Did the High Value line become the High Feature series (3.6)?

Atlas was a great concept. It was basically the GME / CSS concept but twenty years earlier. 4/5/6 cylinder engines with the same cylinder design. Instead of changing displacement by changing bore or stroke, you change displacement by adding or removing a cylinder. Two issues with that engine set. One, for AWD applications it had an axle through oil pan design. Significant sealing issues. Two, the L6 was supposed to have the power of a V8 (it did) with the fuel economy of a V6 (not even close). So it was short-lived. NVH was outstanding.

The High Value V6 was the everywhere engine for GM for a long time. It was based on the old 2.8L V6 and came in variations of 3.1, 3.3, 3.5, and 3.9L versions. It was pretty much milquetoast. Not bad, not great. It just did its job and was often positioned to be the base engine with the High Feature V6 or Small Block V8 being the uplevel optional engine. As the EcoTec 4 cylinder engines got better and better there was just no room for the HVV6. The EcoTecs were more powerful, got better fuel economy (at least on the sticker) and had much better NVH. So the HVV6 was phased out and the EcoTec became base in a lot of products with HFV6 and Small Block V8 set up as uplevel options.