[SinginHawk]

1. The industry is going in this direction whether us enthusiasts like it or not. In our lifetimes, nobody is going to make you buy one if you don't want one, so you don't have to worry about having it if you don't like it (you can always drive a car manufactured before the technology became mainstream).

2. Driving around automated vehicles will be statistically more predictable than driving around possibly distracted strangers. I say 'statistically' because they are not meant to be perfect, they are meant to be an improvement; moving the needle from 95% safe to 99% safe for us attentive, skilled drivers (assuming that's what we are).

3. Driver assistance features don't take anything away from the drivers that enjoy their experience, assuming that they can be turned on or off. They do add to the experience of drivers that don't care, which is the majority of the population, and not us.

4. Wishing that people cared more about being good drivers won't actually make them better drivers. I have faith in humanity's ability to grow, but we do so more reliably at the scope of populations, not individuals.

[SnakeEyeSS]

My Honda's system is WAY too agressive:

It does it when the road curves, sometimes it thinks the car driving at you from around the curve is heading at you straight on, it starts an emergency stop until the oncoming car isn't directly in front of you anymore(as in it complete the curve).

When a vehicle is turning. I might know that the turning car will be out of my way in time, but my car will freak out and does an emergency stop.

When pulling into my garage. Yeah, seriously. Only happened once, but I was yelling at my car over that one.

In the drive thru line. I wasn't going fast enough (2 mph?) for it to make any difference, but the warning was up on the dash.


My wife's mazda has only activated maybe once in 33,000 miles. It's either less effective or smarter. Hopefully we never find out for sure.

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by SinginHawk

1. The industry is going in this direction whether us enthusiasts like it or not. In our lifetimes, nobody is going to make you buy one if you don't want one, so you don't have to worry about having it if you don't like it (you can always drive a car manufactured before the technology became mainstream).

Until it rusts out beyond realistic repair or parts start becoming unavailable, anyway. Or gets hit by a Tesla.

They do add to the experience of drivers that don't care, which is the majority of the population, and not us.

Afraid I'm not seeing how any feature could add to the driving experience for anybody who doesn't care about that experience to begin with. Unless it's to let them get on with whatever business on their phones/tablets/etc., in which case it's still not the driving part of the experience that's being improved.

4. Wishing that people cared more about being good drivers won't actually make them better drivers.

Sadly it seems, not any more.

I have faith in humanity's ability to grow, but we do so more reliably at the scope of populations, not individuals.

Doesn't it have to start with the individual?


Norm

[samurai]

I have this feature on my current Golf - I FRIGGIN HATE IT! So many times the car just brakes for no reason, like the guy on the lane next to you is braking for a turn

[wildchevy]

put your phone down on the back seat and make driving your number one priority, or sell your car and ride the short bus.

[fastball]

For 2019 the 2SS and 2LT with safety package will have forward collision alert. It will not have automatic braking, it will just be an alarm to warn you a collision may be imminent.

Typically the pre-collision automatic braking is included together with radar guided cruise control since they obviously use the same radar. So look for both to be at standard in at least the Camaro level 2 trims, if not standard across the board, when the next substantial redesign occurs in 4 years or so.

A couple years ago I had a Toyota Corolla with pre-collision sensing as a rental and it went bonkers on me once and there was no way I was even close to an imminent collision. I was heading down a 4 lane road at 45 mph when a truck was coming up the other side. There was a curve in the road, and I guess the car thought I was going to be going straight. Once I proceeded to turn the curve it went out but the fact that it went bonkers, the dashboard going all red and flashing a big exclamation point, when I was in absolutely no danger of having an accident made me want to take the car to the edge of the Grand Canyon, get out, put it in drive, and put a brick on the accelerator.

If it is inevitable to have these features when it comes to the time I buy my next car, I will do whatever is required to disable them if they'r not easily defeated in the user menu. If I have to pull fuses, go into the software, or remove sensors or the radar box in the front grille then hotwire the lead wires to make the car think it's still there, whatever it takes, I am getting rid of it.

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by fastball

For 2019 the 2SS and 2LT with safety package will have forward collision alert. It will not have automatic braking, it will just be an alarm to warn you a collision may be imminent.

Even that has a huge potential for being a PITA in rush-hour traffic. Hating your car or what it does because of how it is equipped doesn't sound like a good frame of mind to be in while driving.

It would really suck at a track day if it couldn't be completely disabled.


Near where I live there are at least two road conditions that would have freaked out your Corolla for sure. A gap in a Jersey barrier in the middle of a curve that permits traffic to cross through from a side road (not a great design, to be sure), and an intersection that if you went straight across from the time you entered it you'd hit a different Jersey barrier (you have to treat the road like it's got a little kink in it there).


Norm

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by wildchevy

put your phone down on the back seat and make driving your number one priority

What a concept!!! . . . (mine folds shut and goes in a pocket that's too difficult to get it out of while sitting - if I even hear it ring in the first place)


People would do well to get away from the idea that all information must be instantly available, and feel free to not be immediately available at all times to anybody on the planet who has a phone.


Norm

[JamesNoBrakes]

Originally Posted by wildchevy

put your phone down on the back seat and make driving your number one priority, or sell your car and ride the short bus.

People of all ages, young and old, want to be able to surf the net, face-time, text, and all sorts of stuff, while driving. Look left and right at any stoplight. This is what people want. The industry is responding.

[SinginHawk]

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

Until it rusts out beyond realistic repair or parts start becoming unavailable, anyway. Or gets hit by a Tesla.

Which is true, but that's always been the case with cars that get updated. All of us will be long gone before vehicles without automation aren't available anymore. I can't foresee automation overtaking human-driven vehicles outside of cities and highways within the next 50 years, especially not while the technology comes at a premium price.

Afraid I'm not seeing how any feature could add to the driving experience for anybody who doesn't care about that experience to begin with. Unless it's to let them get on with whatever business on their phones/tablets/etc., in which case it's still not the driving part of the experience that's being improved.

I didn't say "driving experience", I said the experience (as in overall) of drivers, specifically ones that don't care about driving (and therefore care about experiencing other things). I'm doing my best to not discount the fact that these people exist, and occupy the road in droves.

Doesn't it have to start with the individual?

Yes, but I believe that change does so over the time period of a generation, not with each individual that currently occupies space and already has an idea of how things "ought to be". Take yourself for example. How willing are you to accept large changes to the things that you have come to enjoy in your life? My mind isn't very easy to change either, so change requires new generations being born into these changes, so it doesn't feel like a change since things have "always been that way" for them.

Norm

.

[trohde78]

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

It would really suck at a track day if it couldn't be completely disabled.

My 435i had this feature with automatic braking, and it wasn't an issue at the track. It wouldn't intervene unless you were rapidly approaching a vehicle that is going way slower or stopped. I could also set the activation distance, and had it set to closest option.

[wjmeyer]

With the majority speaking negatively about AEB (except on the 435i), I can only imagine the what the opinions will be when a self-driving Camaro arrives in the showroom.

[trohde78]

Originally Posted by wjmeyer

With the majority speaking negatively about AEB (except on the 435i), I can only imagine the what the opinions will be when a self-driving Camaro arrives in the showroom.

Yeah, I really don't get the hate on the auto braking. It's a passive feature like stability control, and only intervenes when you really need it. In 10k miles of driving mine only alerted me twice, and I'm not even sure if it had started braking (or just the alert), as I was already in the process of doing my own emergency braking. haha!

We should just be happy hoping that all the bad drivers and non-enthusiasts have it! Then they won't rear end our cars when they aren't paying attention or find out that their Corolla doesn't stop as well as a Camaro.

[fastball]

Originally Posted by wjmeyer

With the majority speaking negatively about AEB (except on the 435i), I can only imagine the what the opinions will be when a self-driving Camaro arrives in the showroom.

If it was legal to do so I'd park it right in front of the main entrance of the RenCen and set it on fire.