[Ethanolic]

The advantages the Z28 had in braking, tire , shocks, and IRS vs the 2013 GT500 were insurmountable by raw power on a road course. The current gen cars are much closer in all those areas.

If the GT500 beats the ZL1 on track will you say it has the better chassis setup or will you claim the power was the deciding factor?

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by Ethanolic

The advantages the Z28 had in braking, tire , shocks, and IRS vs the 2013 GT500 were insurmountable by raw power on a road course. The current gen cars are much closer in all those areas.

If the GT500 beats the ZL1 on track will you say it has the better chassis setup or will you claim the power was the deciding factor?

I would say the power. IMO the alpha chassis is superior than the S550

[Chadicus]

Originally Posted by shaffe

That is a very good point you bring up. The 5th Gen Z had other advantages over the GT500 like stickier tires, carbon ceramic brakes, it was lighter and the DSSV suspension set up. that is also why the 5th gen Z/28 was able to go much faster than the more powerful ZL1.

For this match up it's going to come down to this I think.

Power advantage GT500
Chassis Advantage ZL1
Weight advantage ZL1 most likely
Suspension - both on magneride (ZLE exception)
Transmission advantage GT500? we will see how good the DCT is
Tires - toss up I would say, both are on good tires

Going off of when the 350R was matched up same day as the ZL1 with the same driver if an extra 200 some HP, DCT and everything they have learned from the 350R cant make up a what was like .39 second gap in lap time then Ford deserves to get the crap they take.


The ZLE. As much as I want the GT500 CFTP to best it that is a tall order. The ZLE is other worldly in performance and that is bravo to GM.



As far as slower than the RE are we talking magazine tests or real world results? Seems the magazines have all had trouble matching dodge's claimed times for the Hellcat and Demon. I haven't seen any RE reviews yet but I would imagine they would be a bit behind Dodge's claims based on past history

I'm not sure anyone can match Dodges claimed results. The GT500 really needs to best the RE at least in real world situations. I would hope Ford could get it down to a 10.8 or so.

[Laststandard]

What I've always found interesting is even on the 'track ready' Mustangs (pp2, GT350/R or does the R come with camber plates?) there is no provision to adjust front camber stock. Even with camber bolts it seems that it's tough to get more than -1.5* of front camber, and for any serious tracking camber plates are a necessity. So you're shelling out an additional $300-600(?) just to be able to get your car to recommended alignment specs from Ford.

Speaking of the chassis - they changed the front knuckle on the GT350, right? Did any of the suspension mounting points change or are all of the S550 based designs the same?

[NW-99SS]

Originally Posted by shaffe

I would say the power. IMO the alpha chassis is superior than the S550

Agreed. DCT might be fractionally better than the A10 as well.

Originally Posted by Chadicus

I'm not sure anyone can match Dodges claimed results. The GT500 really needs to best the RE at least in real world situations. I would hope Ford could get it down to a 10.8 or so.

Dodge's claims for 1/4 mile might as well be driven by Evan Smith...

I'm a real world guy, compare same day, same track - E/Ts and MPH - GT500 will best the ZL1 no question (if not, yikes!), but the Redeye will be a different animal. As with all hero runs, track prep will be the largest factor, will it be enough prep to allow the RE to hook, and same for the GT500?

My friend just picked up his Redeye last week, looking forward to seeing what it's really capable of.

[newmoon]

Originally Posted by Ethanolic

The advantages the Z28 had in braking, tire , shocks, and IRS vs the 2013 GT500 were insurmountable by raw power on a road course. The current gen cars are much closer in all those areas.

If the GT500 beats the ZL1 on track will you say it has the better chassis setup or will you claim the power was the deciding factor?

The 2013 GT500 lost because Ford decided to put inferior tires on the car. 285/255s general summer performance tires on a 662-hp car was and is ridiculous. It is ridiculous on my Boss never mind the GT500. Ford has since gotten a bit smarter and now has competitive tire packages on their track version cars.

[Ethanolic]

Almost a full page of civilized discussion. We need Blaqwhole to come in and tell us how the GT500 will be a complete POS if it doesn’t beat the ZLE and Demon for less money because it had 2 extra years of development and the ME C8 is coming so nobody cares anyway.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by NW-99SS

Agreed. DCT might be fractionally better than the A10 as well.



Dodge's claims for 1/4 mile might as well be driven by Evan Smith...

I'm a real world guy, compare same day, same track - E/Ts and MPH - GT500 will best the ZL1 no question (if not, yikes!), but the Redeye will be a different animal. As with all hero runs, track prep will be the largest factor, will it be enough prep to allow the RE to hook, and same for the GT500?

My friend just picked up his Redeye last week, looking forward to seeing what it's really capable of.

HAHA

Wasn't the Demon hero run done in mineshaft air in like November at Atco or something like that?

Originally Posted by Ethanolic

Almost a full page of civilized discussion. We need Blaqwhole to come in and tell us how the GT500 will be a complete POS if it doesn’t beat the ZLE and Demon for less money because it had 2 extra years of development and the ME C8 is coming so nobody cares anyway.

[Chadicus]

Originally Posted by NW-99SS

Agreed. DCT might be fractionally better than the A10 as well.



Dodge's claims for 1/4 mile might as well be driven by Evan Smith...

I'm a real world guy, compare same day, same track - E/Ts and MPH - GT500 will best the ZL1 no question (if not, yikes!), but the Redeye will be a different animal. As with all hero runs, track prep will be the largest factor, will it be enough prep to allow the RE to hook, and same for the GT500?

My friend just picked up his Redeye last week, looking forward to seeing what it's really capable of.

I would also like to see what they are doing real-world as well. I dont think we know what tires the GT500 will come stock with yet do we?

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by Chadicus

I would also like to see what they are doing real-world as well. I dont think we know what tires the GT500 will come stock with yet do we?

Michelin PS4S on the GT500, Sport Cup 2 on the GT500 CFTP

[NW-99SS]

Originally Posted by shaffe

HAHA

Wasn't the Demon hero run done in mineshaft air in like November at Atco or something like that?

I can't remember, but the amount of prep on their Demon 9.65 run was twice that of any track. Not to mention, that no Demon has touched 9.8 with the Demon box track accessories to date. I think we all know Dodge loves hype, but never delivers claimed results.

Originally Posted by Chadicus

I would also like to see what they are doing real-world as well. I dont think we know what tires the GT500 will come stock with yet do we?

Not that I know of, but I suspect the base and track pack to get different spec.

I don't expect the Redeye to do much on stock tires, all Chally's require a sticky tire to launch properly - just don't do it too hard **cough - Demon Diff blows up - cough**

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by Ethanolic

Almost a full page of civilized discussion. We need Blaqwhole to come in and tell us how the GT500 will be a complete POS if it doesn’t beat the ZLE and Demon for less money because it had 2 extra years of development and the ME C8 is coming so nobody cares anyway.

Do I need to resurrect my "Candyman" post?

[newmoon]

Originally Posted by Ethanolic

Almost a full page of civilized discussion. We need Blaqwhole to come in and tell us how the GT500 will be a complete POS if it doesn’t beat the ZLE and Demon for less money because it had 2 extra years of development and the ME C8 is coming so nobody cares anyway.

[DevilsReject97]

Originally Posted by newmoon

The 2013 GT500 lost because Ford decided to put inferior tires on the car. 285/255s general summer performance tires on a 662-hp car was and is ridiculous. It is ridiculous on my Boss never mind the GT500. Ford has since gotten a bit smarter and now has competitive tire packages on their track version cars.

Are you seriously kidding me here? The tires were NOT the reason. Yes, they did impact it, but there was more to it than just tires. The brakes on the GT 500 weren't up to par with what the vehicle needed. That is something that Ford has rectified with the new GT500 (those are massive btw). Yes, putting small tires on the car was stupid, and that again is also being rectified. We've seen the same issues on Hellcats..

Ford is also fixing the tire issue as well, which will make it better. However, I do say that it will be interesting to see how well the PS4S match up on the track versus the ZL1's standard GY3's...