[hooligan317]

Hello! Hoping to get some feedback on what folks have experienced when driving in PTM Race vs. Sport 1.

Some background: My 2020 6MT ZLE is the first RWD platform that I've tracked, however I have quite a bit of track experience overall and run in the advanced run groups with my local organizations. So far with the ZLE I picked up during Covid, I've done a wet HPDE, a dry HPDE and an SCCA Time Trial. During those events, I've never ventured beyond PTM Sport 1 and a number of folks have suggested there's time to be found in making the switch to PTM Race. From what I can tell from the performance supplement in the manual, PTM Race will "unlock" full engine power but turn off StabiliTrack/ESC.

My question... does the ZLE turn into a rotating tail-wagging beast without StabiliTrack (exaggerating I hope lol) or am I nuts for having not run in PTM Race already? Any feedback is welcome.

[Yanbags]

If you're experienced enough to have a feel for weight balance and transfer and know how to react - 100% use PTM Race! Just be respectful to the car's limits and experiment around in safer corners.

It's not a full-off setting, there is still TQ management and it will cut power if you try to do something really silly. I personally find that anything below PTM Race does not allow me to rotate on acceleration and put down power the way I want to.

I've driven a few ZLEs on track and it's hilarious fun compared to my SS to have all that extra power.

[kropscamaro16]

Originally Posted by Yanbags

If you're experienced enough to have a feel for weight balance and transfer and know how to react - 100% use PTM Race! Just be respectful to the car's limits and experiment around in safer corners.

It's not a full-off setting, there is still TQ management and it will cut power if you try to do something really silly. I personally find that anything below PTM Race does not allow me to rotate on acceleration and put down power the way I want to.

I've driven a few ZLEs on track and it's hilarious fun compared to my SS to have all that extra power.

we were just talking about this the other day at the track me and my buddy bob has a 1le and i have a 1ss and i cant imagine another 200+ hp on track we would probably kill ourselfes haha

[Mountain]

Originally Posted by hooligan317

Hello! Hoping to get some feedback on what folks have experienced when driving in PTM Race vs. Sport 1.

Some background: My 2020 6MT ZLE is the first RWD platform that I've tracked, however I have quite a bit of track experience overall and run in the advanced run groups with my local organizations. So far with the ZLE I picked up during Covid, I've done a wet HPDE, a dry HPDE and an SCCA Time Trial. During those events, I've never ventured beyond PTM Sport 1 and a number of folks have suggested there's time to be found in making the switch to PTM Race. From what I can tell from the performance supplement in the manual, PTM Race will "unlock" full engine power but turn off StabiliTrack/ESC.

My question... does the ZLE turn into a rotating tail-wagging beast without StabiliTrack (exaggerating I hope lol) or am I nuts for having not run in PTM Race already? Any feedback is welcome.

I'll offer my 1-cent (not 2 because I've not driven a ZL1 on track) based on my observations of ZL1's on track and speaking with someone that has had seat time in a variety of cars, including the Camaro SS, SS 1LE, ZL1, ZL1 1LE and various Corvettes:

The Camaro, specifically the Gen 6, and even the Gen 5, is a pretty stable platform. Do not think Z/06 or Z/R1 when thinking about your ZL1 or ZL1 1LE - although similar powertrains, the alpha-chassis and implementation thereinto is extremely well balanced. Yes, no-doubt, you still need to be mindful of the amount of low-end and mid-range power, particularly in regards to torque.

So, don't let yourself be too worked up, as the Camaro is a good platform to learn on.

With that said, I say go for it and try PTM race. It opens up more of the car to you and, yes, places more control in your hands; however, although that can be seen as a scary thing in regards to risk, it may ultimately be for the better. The reason I say that is because I have witnessed quite a few of ZL1 guys at the track over-utilizing, or better put "taking for granted", the PTM-system. Basically, I have seen some drivers run in a mode like Sport 1, where TC and SC are still active, and rely on the PTM system to "compensate" for their lack of or lack of regard to control in that they seem to be literally OK with stabbing the throttle on corner exit. I'm not saying you are doing this, but I am using it as a strong example...

The reason that is bad is because 1. you aren't learning good racecraft, 2. you aren't actually learning your car and you're 3. therefore, putting yourself at more risk if, and when, nature/Murphy's Law decides to step in. PTM, ultimately, is human designed, and therefore limited in humans' directly and indirectly (i.e. computer programming) understanding and capability to design things - you step into a grey area in that functions "design" and all bets are off, all while you aren't fully aware of or capable of dealing with the situation. This is more in particular the "harder" you start driving as this becomes are area more ripe to "nature" and Murphy's Law.

[Think: the car/computer is interpreting the situation as "this", but is the reality of situation really "this"? The "human element" is assumed to be what?]

In summary, if you're going to even be somewhat serious about this track stuff, take the time to learn the true nature of your vehicle and, in that, better racecraft (even if you aren't "racing").

[TWG1]

I’m pretty new (6 car events; but lots of Sportbike track time previously), and was also topping out in sport 1. I backtracked to Dry on at the last session a few events ago recently and couldn’t stand it. Seemed that the power delivery was a full second behind my input. It gave me a really good idea how invasive the PTM could be; and I felt safer back at Sport 1.

Fast forward to a recent event at NCM, and I was talking to another ZL1 owner about how I was upping rear tire pressure to get car to rotate better (loosen up rear), he took one look at my rear rotors and diagnosed that PTM was overworking. He suggested I go to Sport 2, to fix the root issue, rather than unbalancing pressures. He was absolutely right. The car loosened right up. I also got 2 sec faster, but the real benefit was a better feeling car (for me). I think the biggest difference is you can really steer with the pedal above sport 1...which can be good or bad, as mentioned above. I haven’t tried Race.

[weemus]

As all said PTM Race all the way. It’s all still there just way less obtrusive. However if it’s cold (tires are cold) or track is damp I’ll run PMT 1 until all is
Warm or dry. Then its race.

[Alpha1BC]

I'd also suggest trying race mode, or at the very least sport 2.

Hopefully this is more clarifying than confusing, but you already have "full engine power" available. The higher PTM levels adjust the amount controls intervention (specifically ESC and TC) when you start to experience more yaw and tire slip. ESC is more for braking in a turn or light/no throttle apply while cornering. It applies brake pressure to help keep the car from getting into a yaw rate that's unrecoverable while you're turning but not necessarily from over-applying the throttle. TC is what controls the tail-wagging on throttle because it's using engine torque reduction and even sometimes brakes to manage rear wheel slip from throttle application. TC pretty much always catches throttle-induced wheel slip before you start getting into yaw rates that will trigger ESC, so you shouldn't have to worry about ESC being off leading to on-throttle oversteer, especially with decent previous driving experience. To summarize the Sport 1 and up modes:

• Sport 1 still has both TC and ESC enabled but are cal'd to be less restrictive than when you're not in PTM.
• Sport 2 keeps pretty much the same level of TC but turns off ESC. This lets you mash the throttle on corner exit without having to worry about spinning the wheels too much but if you start to get higher yaw rates you won't have the brake system trying to stop the spin, you have to do that with steering inputs.
• Race keeps ESC off and further reduces TC intervention. Reason for this is that it lets the driver rotate the car more with the throttle since it allows more wheel slip, but still keeps it under control enough that it's not an immediate punishment if you go to WOT too quickly on corner exit. You can still spin out on throttle if you keep it pinned long enough while turning, but there's plenty of warning for you to lift before that happens unlike running with everything turned off when it can snap-oversteer if you mash the throttle too quickly.

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by hooligan317

Hello! Hoping to get some feedback on what folks have experienced when driving in PTM Race vs. Sport 1.

Some background: My 2020 6MT ZLE is the first RWD platform that I've tracked, however I have quite a bit of track experience overall and run in the advanced run groups with my local organizations. So far with the ZLE I picked up during Covid, I've done a wet HPDE, a dry HPDE and an SCCA Time Trial. During those events, I've never ventured beyond PTM Sport 1 and a number of folks have suggested there's time to be found in making the switch to PTM Race. From what I can tell from the performance supplement in the manual, PTM Race will "unlock" full engine power but turn off StabiliTrack/ESC.

My question... does the ZLE turn into a rotating tail-wagging beast without StabiliTrack (exaggerating I hope lol) or am I nuts for having not run in PTM Race already? Any feedback is welcome.

HPDE is supposed to be about driver education.

To me, that means at some point, the driver should be learning how to sneak up on the car's limits all on his own, and this involves developing decent skill at throttle, brake, and steering modulation, and in developing a feel what the car is trying to do. You aren't learning anything by driving in some stomp/stab/jerk-the-wheel-over manner and relying on the electronics to sort it all out for you. Worse, you might be learning how to do a few wrong things too well - it only takes an ABS wheel sensor to go inop for TC and Stabilitrak to be taken offline along with the ABS . . . something about being up some creek or other without a paddle comes to mind here.

Going to PTM Race should not be done for the purpose of "unlocking full engine power"; best to forget about that part entirely. You should do so to advance those control input modulation skills a little further, which to be fair will be a bit different from what appears to be FWD or AWD experience only.


What I can't tell you is whether it's an easier process to start with big power and gradually dial back the electronic aids that are available today, or (the case for old guys like me) start out in in lower-powered cars that had no nannies whatsoever and gradually move into faster machinery.


Norm

[NickyRacerBoy]

Wish my writing skills were as good as Norm's and others here! Guess I should have worried more my class work then trying to hook up with pretty girls!

Well back to the subject. Personally I've found that the car is much more hehaved will everything turned off.

[ICTsccaCamaro]

I have ran it in RACE mode for every trackday since new, just be respectful of the car and drive to your skill level, in every other mode the PTM seems very intrusive.

[hooligan317]

I really appreciate the feedback from everyone, thank you all! Resounding support for using PTM Race and continuing to respect the car in the process. That will be the game plan next Saturday at my next HPDE

[TrackClub]

Originally Posted by hooligan317

I really appreciate the feedback from everyone, thank you all! Resounding support for using PTM Race and continuing to respect the car in the process. That will be the game plan next Saturday at my next HPDE

Check out the sticky thread above on various PTM modes incl great comments from a GM engineer responsible for the system.

I echo the comments above: Camaro is a stable, very well balanced platform and PTM Race only has race calibrated TC for exits, so not intrusive at all (assuming one feels what the car is doing traction wise). Cheers!

[AMOR]

Originally Posted by TrackClub

Check out the sticky thread above on various PTM modes incl great comments from a GM engineer responsible for the system.

I echo the comments above: Camaro is a stable, very well balanced platform and PTM Race only has race calibrated TC for exits, so not intrusive at all (assuming one feels what the car is doing traction wise). Cheers!

Hi, where exactly is this comment from a GM engineer on the PTM modes? I could not find it.

[TrackClub]

Originally Posted by AMOR

Hi, where exactly is this comment from a GM engineer on the PTM modes? I could not find it.

Than you have not read my post. Page 1, post 1. Cheers!

https://www.camaro6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=496996