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Old 12-03-2018, 05:24 PM   #15
Sweet15
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jhunsberger View Post
Be careful with the 2" TSP headers, i believe they state on their website that the 2" are real close to the steering shaft. In the end, glad you have a direction forward, good luck with your build. i think most of us have dyno info in our sigs.

Straight from their website:

*Please note that the 2" primary headers will have limited clearance around the steering shaft and the rest of the engine bay. Some customers may have to shift the engine over or dimple the headers to gain proper clearance because it is so tight. If you are concerned with this issue, we recommend purchasing our 1-7/8" long tube headers that provide better clearance.


*Additional modifications needed to fit convertibles.

Called and spoke to TSP and ordered the 1 7/8 catted. Rather be safe with a little extra room.
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Old 12-04-2018, 08:24 AM   #16
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Good choice
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Old 12-04-2018, 10:33 AM   #17
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You can run to your 600whp goal without headers or exhaust. My experience is, once you add headers the ride gets kinda loud...although in fairness, I got rid of cats and added a cam at the same time.

It is safe to run just under 600whp without fuel upgrades or anything on the LT1. Seems that most people run out of fuel just below, say 575whp with stock everything...just blower.

https://youtu.be/MTYVp589qI0

Good luck.
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Old 12-05-2018, 06:02 AM   #18
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How about exhausts without NPP? Is it ok for SC setup? As you know, it is quite restrict.
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Old 12-05-2018, 09:33 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by shinysun View Post
How about exhausts without NPP? Is it ok for SC setup? As you know, it is quite restrict.
The gas is a lot cooler at tailpipe, so IMO, I don,t see much difference. Does the zl1 come with dual tip?
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Old 12-05-2018, 04:43 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shinysun View Post
How about exhausts without NPP? Is it ok for SC setup? As you know, it is quite restrict.
I have the non-NPP exhaust. I did switch to the Stainlessworks axleback exhaust because it looks and sounds nicer, but not because it was needed for anything performance wise.

Really this comes down to your goals. If you are only looking to be in the 600whp range, then I would consider phases.

I am probably more conservative than most because I didn't feel comfortable running over 600whp on stock internals. For that reason, I treated the cam as part of the fuel upgrade. . .however, since I was already getting in the motor for the cam I thought that was also the time to do the forged internals...At the same time, instead of going to 700whp that also makes me comfortable running 800whp.

Phases:
1. intake and supercharger - 550-600whp.
2. fuel system, cam and LT headers- 650-700whp
3. forged internals 700-850whp (depending on your choice of fuel)
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Last edited by Drsagacity; 12-07-2018 at 08:16 PM.
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Old 12-06-2018, 07:33 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweet15 View Post
So, I've got all ordered and on the way.

Whipple, LT4 HPFP, LT4 injectors, DSX Aux fuel pump kit, Roto-fab dry CAI, Mighty Mouse CC, NGK 6509 plugs, and LS3 front seal.

So my question is about headers / exhaust. I have a 18' 2SS A8 vert w/NPP so I want to keep it kind of quiet. Had a 15' SS that was S/C and cammed with Stainless Works that was pretty loud, had to pull over to talk on the phone LOL.

So getting mixed opinions on needing headers / exhaust. Is it necessary; some say stock set up is pretty good up to about 700 wheel hp. As a vert I would want to get catted if I went with headers due to the fumes. I would like to get over 600 to the wheels, so I think I should be able to tune it between 8-10psi with the fuel upgrades, which should get me there or close ? Don't want to do meth or E85, will be tuning to 93.

I looked at TSP 2" w/ catted to NPP; however being a vert they suggested the 1 7/8 instead for fitment. Some other brands cat back/axle back won't even work with a vert from what I saw.

So, is it necessary or will the stock set up be fine ? No sure the word necessary is right. Maybe is it needed ?

Thanks all ...
A lot of people have done a lot of different combos but that doesn't mean any of them are right.

Think of it this way, your going to be pumping 50%-75% more air and fuel in to the engine this should be balanced with exhaust flow improvements.

Ted.
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Old 12-08-2018, 07:00 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JANNETTYRACING View Post
A lot of people have done a lot of different combos but that doesn't mean any of them are right.

Think of it this way, your going to be pumping 50%-75% more air and fuel in to the engine this should be balanced with exhaust flow improvements.

Ted.
There you go. That sounds like the same logic that had me add the headers...originally I figured we could run up to 700whp without...but that was my thinking exactly and the reason I added the headers.

In fact, if I recall correctly, Ted told me that on the phone so I added headers when we upped the boost beyond stage 1.
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Last edited by Drsagacity; 12-08-2018 at 04:55 PM.
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Old 12-08-2018, 12:16 PM   #23
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doctor, you should put the quick chart up color coded green, yellow, red. It should have engine HP target and what you "need" to get there.
Example: bone stock exhaust: Green upto 550 HP NA, 600 supercharged.
Cat deletes primary or all four + stock after head pipe: Green 600 HP NA, 700
supercharged

1 and 7/8 LT + stock back of collector: Green 650 HP NA, 800 supercharged

2", no cats, 3" aftermarket exhaust: Green to 700+ NA, 1000+ supercharged, no lower limit, but a least a caution on sound and fitment.

Then do something like this for the stock LT1 h/low fuel system, then LT4, then cam and big bore, this will be more complicated as I can see 93, E60, E85 as natural fuel usage scenarios.


You seem to like to collect data points and get general extrapolations. So this would be a great sticky.

I would speculate after this slow progression by many on the board, there are some 50 HP increment brackets that really what is needed is well know. For instance, we all know that at somepoint early on the 2" header will make more power NA or supercharged, and at some point say 800 engine it is a 20 WHP spread in favor of the 2".

Geen would be a "matching" build as Ted is saying. Yellow, well it probably can be done, and don't want to get into a debate, Red well maybe, but at some point reliable performance needs a system of interrelated parts. Especially for a DD, I don't know if you can have a 1000 engine HP daily driver but maybe. My goal is 709 whp or 8 sum'ting engine, seems fine so far... except for rear tire wear.
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Old 12-08-2018, 05:31 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldman View Post
doctor, you should put the quick chart up color coded green, yellow, red. It should have engine HP target and what you "need" to get there.
Example: bone stock exhaust: Green upto 550 HP NA, 600 supercharged.
Cat deletes primary or all four + stock after head pipe: Green 600 HP NA, 700
supercharged

1 and 7/8 LT + stock back of collector: Green 650 HP NA, 800 supercharged

2", no cats, 3" aftermarket exhaust: Green to 700+ NA, 1000+ supercharged, no lower limit, but a least a caution on sound and fitment.

Then do something like this for the stock LT1 h/low fuel system, then LT4, then cam and big bore, this will be more complicated as I can see 93, E60, E85 as natural fuel usage scenarios.


You seem to like to collect data points and get general extrapolations. So this would be a great sticky.

I would speculate after this slow progression by many on the board, there are some 50 HP increment brackets that really what is needed is well know. For instance, we all know that at somepoint early on the 2" header will make more power NA or supercharged, and at some point say 800 engine it is a 20 WHP spread in favor of the 2".

Geen would be a "matching" build as Ted is saying. Yellow, well it probably can be done, and don't want to get into a debate, Red well maybe, but at some point reliable performance needs a system of interrelated parts. Especially for a DD, I don't know if you can have a 1000 engine HP daily driver but maybe. My goal is 709 whp or 8 sum'ting engine, seems fine so far... except for rear tire wear.
@Oldman, I definitely like the idea, but I didn’t do my build in small enough increments to know the difference in components. When I was planning out my build, I was thinking in terms of stages and figuring out what I would need to be safely at the next power level.

Example:
390whp stock
570whp Maggie + rotofab + axleback
700whp Maggie + rotofab + axleback + fuel + headers 1 7/8 + remove cats + cam 93oct 11psi
705whp Above reduced to 8psi with e70.
740whp above plus 10 psi with e70.
775whp above plus 12 psi with e70.
Out of injector at 14 psi with e70. More to come next summer

800+ needs race fuel or alky or bigger injectors

My numbers are based on a8...so add for M6.

We know that @Ricco was running 850whp with basically the same setup but upped to 18psi with 93+Alky and using an ancillary fuel system.

I do think we could take the top blower configurations: Procharger, Maggie, Whipple and LT4 and show the progression through their mods pretty easily. But I guess to me the decision for “what’s right” really depends on your objective.

We know you can run 700whp on the stock motor, no cam and a big bore pump spraying alky on top. The question is, how long before the motor breaks? Well, if you barely drive or only get into it for short runs it might last forever. On the other hand, we know you have to run double the boost to get the same power.

As an example, @layno was running 700whp on stock exhaust, no cam...just fuel. But it took 15-16psi to do it. I was running 700whp after my mods on 8psi. Which is better? It depends on the objective.

It seems to me that we have stages. Blower only is simple, safe and improves performance of an SS to be better than a ZL1 for much less money.

Eventually, the SS has to upgrade the fuel system, strengthen the internals and you get to a point where it’s just who wants to spend more going to the next level. If I was starting over, I would have just bought the ZL1 to begin with. On the other hand, I am adding better parts than what the Z comes with and making it more unique...so that’s probably where this idea ends for me. Make the car your own...find a tuner you trust and want to work with...and stick with their plan.
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2017 Camaro 2SS vert - Nightfall Gray
Magnuson Heartbeat SC - Tuned by JRE Racing
776whp/745wtq (12psi)

2018 Corvette Z06 vert- Black
To be tuned by JRE Racing
TBD performance

Last edited by Drsagacity; 12-11-2018 at 04:59 AM.
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Old 12-08-2018, 05:41 PM   #25
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I would also add, I can see easily getting to 850whp now on a car that could be daily driven if you don’t have to drive in rain or snow.

Not sure I understand the point, however, because it is not rational to have a daily driver on drag radials...because getting caught in rain or snow would be scary dangerous.

I believe if that was my goal, I would add FIC injectors and run straight pump e85. No race fuel and no alky injection.

But above 650whp you better be driving on something sticky or plan on staying out of the boost on the street, or have different tires for each season...as well as having a plan for the rain.
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2017 Camaro 2SS vert - Nightfall Gray
Magnuson Heartbeat SC - Tuned by JRE Racing
776whp/745wtq (12psi)

2018 Corvette Z06 vert- Black
To be tuned by JRE Racing
TBD performance
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Old 12-09-2018, 01:52 PM   #26
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But above 650whp you better be driving on something sticky or plan on staying out of the boost on the street, or have different tires for each season...as well as having a plan for the rain.
True dat.
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