[TrackClub]

Fyi i had my alignment done at a local GM dealer. I was lucky as a tech was a circle track racer and knew what to do without any special instructions beyond me providing the specs. It held for 3 years. As far as i know, he had reused all bolts. Having said that, there is something to be said about going by the book.

[Val Walkinshaw]

Anyone have a thought as to what I would see with this unusual setup that I wouldn't normally see with a standard GM alignment?

FYI I picked up camber plates.

[Val Walkinshaw]

Originally Posted by TrackClub

Val, do NOT go back to that guy. Period. Full stop.
Maybe he thought your SS was a new C8 since he set it up for a mid engine car? Basically the alignment is reversed F vs R. Way too much in the rear hence you see improper wear there. As much as some of his comments are valid in theory for a serious RACE team, nobody here adjusts alignment several times a season! I had mine done once and run the car for 3 yrs and 60 track days with perfect balance and great tire wear.

Moreover, no matter how great a gal you may be, getting an alignment for free is highly unusual and maybe his strategy to talk you into having it changed 5 or 10 times meaning you will then OVER PAY 5 or 10 times for a service that should be done well and ONCE.

Find another shop asap, or even take it to a GM dealer and take the shot of the GM track specs offered above and bring them with ya.

The key on the Camaro is to max the F camber using stock bolts and then dial R with about 1 degree difference. As an example i have 2.6F and 1.6R.

For the toe, i would suggest 0 in the F and total toe in of 0.10 in the R. Note: running 0 in the R usually makes the car feel rather loose (definitely NOT for anyone without tons of experience, if ever).

Here is an instruction how to max the F camber on stock bolts posted by a forum member a while back. Take it with you to whatever shop you happend to take your car to so they will know how to accomplish it. Note this also explains why an "adjustment bolt" is NOT needed if proper procedure is followed. Cheers!

Loosen the 2 strut-to-knuckle bolts/nuts
-->Here's the important part that average shops can't seem to wrap their head around:
*Hammer the bolt a little bit to loosen it from the knuckle. Splines on the bolt OD grip the knuckle otherwise making the alignment nearly impossible. If you don't get the 2 strut bolts loose, the alignment isn't going to happen without...guess what...that stupid "adjustment bolt".
*adjust to taste - snug up strut bolts. You can choose to have the strut bolts "kinda snug" to hold the relationship until it's adjusted satisfactorily. The "adjustment bolt" can kind of help here, but it only limits movement in one direction, meaning the alignment can still drift the other way until the 2 strut bolts are snugged up.
*check alignment, torque strut bolts, verify alignment.

I appreciate your input and have saved your post in my records.

FYI I picked up some camber plates.

[Boost Creep]

Originally Posted by Val Walkinshaw

Anyone have a thought as to what I would see with this unusual setup that I wouldn't normally see with a standard GM alignment?

FYI I picked up camber plates.

I would think understeer as the front camber allowing the tires to roll under and lose contact patch.

[Val Walkinshaw]

Originally Posted by Boost Creep

I would think understeer as the front camber allowing the tires to roll under and lose contact patch.

How odd!
I was somewhat anticipating that.
The car was 100% improved this last event. I couldn't get her to push at all. And I tried like hell. She was more responsive to input and felt tighter. I didn't expect how well she hooked up. I'm sure thre 305's helped immensely. Much less roll and I didn't have any issues with over corrections . 1.1g next felt better. 8 hours in one day of that (400 miles in two days) and I was exhausted.

[Boost Creep]

Originally Posted by Val Walkinshaw

How odd!
I was somewhat anticipating that.
The car was 100% improved this last event. I couldn't get her to push at all. And I tried like hell. She was more responsive to input and felt tighter. I didn't expect how well she hooked up. I'm sure thre 305's helped immensely. Much less roll and I didn't have any issues with over corrections . 1.1g next felt better. 8 hours in one day of that (400 miles in two days) and I was exhausted.

What you have now may be a huge improvement over how it came from the factory.
Mine right out of the box was less than ideal with a good amount of toe out front and back along with not a whole lot of camber dialed in.

[TrackClub]

Val, if you were impressed by G3s with crap alignment you will be absolutely delighted with a right one

[Val Walkinshaw]

Update:

Due to overwhelming responses on my unusual setup I had my car realigned.
-2.4 camber up front
-1.4 in rear.
Kept toe the same

After some spirited driving and 1 SCCA event the result is..

It's complete shit. My ass was all over the place. Absolutely not planted. No matter the throttle response damped (think snow/ice) or aggressive she kicked out on every corner. No issues with understeer .

Not a clue how 1400 miles with my unusual setup (-2 rear camber and -1 front, 0 toe) resulted in zero issues with a squirrely rear end but it did. I'll be back in to see my guy tomorrow and until then she's parked. Feels too unstable.

I'm surprised. I really am. So many qualified folks on here that it just doesn't make sense to me.

For my third and last setup I think I'll go with -2 again in the rear and since I felt no difference between -1 and -2.4 up front I don't really care what he picks.
He did suggest .10 in the rear so I'm game for that too.

[VinnAY]

Well that's strange.

[TheRealJA105]

I think you like understeer and are scared of oversteer

[Val Walkinshaw]

Originally Posted by VinnAY

That's a lot of words to say he doesn't want your business.

Not to be a dick but your completely wrong.

We've become friends and chat regularly. Since he was an instructor for decades he's been Uber helpful in answering my questions on a damn near real time basis throughout my sessions. He's let me hang out in the shop and watch him work. The other day I was in the shop for 5 hours due to the lazers not aligning properly, he had to do it the old way when he aligned my car. He took the time to stop what he was doing to show me examples of when he turned X bolt this way to note how it impacted camber/toe ECT. He explained how to setup the CEMB system and allowed me to help on limited ocassions.
I was under the car the entire time....
5 hours with plenty of education time is not someone who doesn't want my business. Someone who's been doing alignments for 30 years and has aligned hundreds of cars in SCCCA knows the easiest thing to fix is the car, it's the driver that's difficult. So he tailors the car to the driver with in reason and goes from there. He's agreed to do some ride alongs and offer more instruction.

I'm not a newb and I don't claim to be a track rat. Funding is not there. I'm not overly experienced (couple years) but I have had enough conversations with senior drivers to know I've exceeded expectations for my experience and gender. At 41 I may of learned a thing to two about men, so that's not a factor either.

If I came across harsh I apologize. May in part be due to some other responses on here that got me fired up.

[Val Walkinshaw]

Originally Posted by TheRealJA105

I think you like understeer and are scared of oversteer

Understeer scared the shit out of me and I am intimately familiar with it due to some underwear changing moments. Not to mention I struggled with it for over a year before I finally decided after changing tires from Assymetric to Michelins to Supecar3's that I had eliminated the most obvious variables.

Thankfully I caught those of shit moments with both in cabin and out footage so I could better watch my hand movements.

Oversteer I've not encountered.

After more thought I can't dismiss what you are saying in part because I have never experienced oversteer.

I only know when the assymetrics are bald, you turn the wheel and the car goes straight. Classic example of understeer. That behavior continued on through the lackluster MSP4S and to a much lesser extent with the SUPERCAR3'S until I had the car aligned.

I can tell you I do tend to drive with the nannies on so I imagine any oversteer may be corrected by that.

[Val Walkinshaw]

Originally Posted by VinnAY

Well that's strange.

. +1

[DaveC113]

Originally Posted by Val Walkinshaw

For my third and last setup I think I'll go with -2 again in the rear and since I felt no difference between -1 and -2.4 up front I don't really care what he picks.
He did suggest .10 in the rear so I'm game for that too.

Before you change anything you might want to have someone with a lot of experience drive your car and see what their opinion is.

Also, if you're talking autox, definitely turn all the nannies off. The whole point is to learn how to drive properly and the nannies will prevent that. The car has 455 hp and is rwd, you simply can't go full throttle willy-nilly anytime you want, you need to learn this instead of having the nannies control the throttle for you.