[Alan47717]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Except for us, the dying breed that enjoys working cars, EVs are already better with one exception, charging time. Quieter, less maintenance, etc.



To be clear the ICE truck range dropped a significant amount as well. Under 200 miles if I recall correctly. EV was worse though.




Mostly because what you call rare earth metals aren’t actually hat rare.



Can’t mix Precious, rare and critical elements. For example precious metals are required for every ICE car produced today.

And I just love how everyone has picked up on “wrong side of history”. This either works or it doesn’t. GM could be back to 100% ICE in 3 to 4 years. And they won’t do that just because the EVs launched or coming are pretty solid choices. The only risk of failure is that they have to back pedal on going 100% EV. None of them will likely ever go back to 100% ICE.

And lastly, the elements needed for every single ICE car and truck are so valuable they are being stolen. Platinum, palladium and rhodium. None require to make an EV emissions compliant.

Comparing ounces of precious metal required for an ICE vehicle cat to 12 kg's of lithium required for a Tesla S battery is an utterly priceless example of "Trust us, EV's are the answer, everything's going to be OK" rationalizations.

[Alan47717]

Originally Posted by digitalfutur

In typically self-serving fashion, human ingenuity suddenly disappears when one is personally opposed to some new technology, EVs in this case. That is a variance with history where new technologies were developed with human inventiveness and smarts, often with government support, and despite political opposition by vested interests. Challenge me to name some, I've got a long list...

Those who think ICE vehicles are the future are on the wrong side of history. It's not a coincidence that those who think that way are generally anti-government, pro deregulation (business first always before environment), and pro fossil fuel.

I am not anti-government. I am not anti- regulation. My main positions on fossil fuels are that we should have been converting coal fired plants to natural gas decades ago and that it has been insane all along to subsidize oil companies and artificially keep the price of gasoline low. I believe that humans contribute to climate change and if we don't do something about it we are going to suffer serious consequences.

There, does make my prejudices clear?

Replacing an energy source that pollutes in one fashion with one that pollutes in another is not being green, it's just conveniently kicking the can into third world countries.

Right now the states supplied water from the Colorado River would really like to be able to get their hands on some of the 54,000 gallons of fresh water destroyed to provide enough lithium for one Tesla S battery.

[Chrome383Z]

Originally Posted by BuckeyeROC

California expected to ban new gas car sales by 2035, with Thursday vote...


https://www.cnn.com/2022/08/24/us/ca...035/index.html

Better CA then Indiana. Let them be the Guinea pigs. It’ll be painful especially over there where the push for renewables has made their grid unstable. Feel for folks living there…. I suspect this will be reversed but let the cards play out.

[90503]

Originally Posted by Chrome383Z

Better CA then Indiana. Let them be the Guinea pigs. It’ll be painful especially over there where the push for renewables has made their grid unstable. Feel for folks living there…. I suspect this will be reversed but let the cards play out.

Reversed? I doubt it. More than likely it will be copied by numerous states that already use CA emissions standards.

[Wyzz Kydd]

So what happens when someone from a neighboring state drives into California in a new 2036 ICE vehicle?

What happens when someone from Nevada sells their used 2036 ICE vehicle to someone from California?

[Devstrike]

Originally Posted by 90503

Reversed? I doubt it. More than likely it will be copied by numerous states that already use CA emissions standards.

Why I am happy where I live while those states deal with blackouts I won't. Where I live we still use plants like Coal and other reliable options and as the Governor has made it clear he won't follow things blindly unless they lead to a successful source. This basically means he rather have us have no blackouts at all. He was not subtle when he thanked West Virginia. I checked the DMV records for my area as well for a vehicle under 4500 pounds the renewal fee is 30.00 (not including other fees) 4500 or heavier add 10 and if the Vehicle is electric add 100 to that price.

[Devstrike]

Originally Posted by Wyzz Kydd

So what happens when someone from a neighboring state drives into California in a new 2036 ICE vehicle?

What happens when someone from Nevada sells their used 2036 ICE vehicle to someone from California?

Oh yeah I am looking forward to seeing California have a temper tantrum when other states don't follow them and ICE Vehicles are still around because costumers want them since you know it is the United State of America and not the United States of California. There are people that bash Toyota but them keeping ICE around with EVs is the best business decision for the US market. They probably should focus on EVs a bit more for people that want them but overall smart. Ford as well they are keeping an ICE division around for a while with EV.

[funked1]

Originally Posted by BuckeyeROC

California expected to ban new gas car sales by 2035, with Thursday vote...


https://www.cnn.com/2022/08/24/us/ca...035/index.html

This is the way.

[digitalfutur]

Originally Posted by 90503

It seems a very important component of the EV Transition has been overlooked or intentionally ignored. That is the amount of raw materials and precious metals needed to sustain this so-called transition. Being pro-fossil fuel will be shown to be the right side of history.

From the esteemed World Economic Forum:

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2022/...ical-minerals/

"Shifting from fossil fuels to renewables requires huge amounts of critical metals.
Recycling alone won't be enough to sustain the amount of materials needed
We need to increase sharing, reuse and a preference for longevity to reduce demand.
We need a clean energy revolution, and we need it now. But this transition from fossil fuels to renewables will need large supplies of critical metals such as cobalt, lithium, nickel, to name a few. Shortages of these critical minerals could raise the costs of clean energy technologies." ('Ya think?)

EVs will never be produced in numbers close to ICE, it will be impossible. There will be shortages of available vehicles and extremely high costs to produce or own one. Meanwhile, fossil fueled ICE vehicles will have been discontinued and unavailable. The policies and planning that will follow can only be Orwellian by necessity. (As the WEF contends).

The wrong side of history will have been to eliminate fossil fuels and ICE as a standard quality of life and the freedom it provided, and blindly or more likely intentionally, replacing it with an unsustainable system of rare earth material dependent transportation. Throwing away ICE, fossil fuels, and the quality of life and standards of living it has provided to millions will be shown by history to be the biggest unforced error and folly.

You've added your own personal opinion to a balanced viewpoint by the WEF, which correctly states that transition to EVs will not be without its challenges

So because you're personally opposed, here come the absolutes like "never", "shortages", "Orwellian" etc. In other words, human ingenuity and smarts disappear because you are personally opposed. With a defeatist attitude like that, many technologies would not have been the success that they have.

Thank you for proving my point.

[Devstrike]

Originally Posted by funked1

This is the way.

Thank God Texas and Florida exist.

[Anjilslaire]

Originally Posted by funked1

This is the way.

Yes.

[Wyzz Kydd]

Originally Posted by Devstrike

Thank God Texas and Florida exist.

Yep.

[Red Chief]

Originally Posted by Devstrike

Thank God Texas and Florida exist.

I paid extra to own a 6.2L gas-burning V8 but I gotta say this:

I think it's kind of funny that people draw the line when it comes to electric-powered cars.

We don't resent our electric-powered:

Lights
Air conditioner
TV
PC/laptop/tablet
Cellphone
Refrigerator
Washing Machine
Drier
Coffee pot
Dishwasher
Garage door
Cordless power tools

But when it comes to what we mostly use for commuting to work...OH NO YOU BETTER NOT!!

[Chrome383Z]

Originally Posted by digitalfutur

You've added your own personal opinion to a balanced viewpoint by the WEF, which correctly states that transition to EVs will not be without its challenges

So because you're personally opposed, here come the absolutes like "never", "shortages", "Orwellian" etc. In other words, human ingenuity and smarts disappear because you are personally opposed. With a defeatist attitude like that, many technologies would not have been the success that they have.

Thank you for proving my point.

Will EV be the future, not sure… maybe - will it be ice. Probably not, I’m hoping for either A) Better battery tech or B) Something new (back to the future type new lol). Will EV future be lithium batteries, absolutely not.

But right now Lithium battery EV are being shoved down our throat (as green) when there are many challenges. #1 Lithium. Wait until this huge transition happens and Lithium skyrockets. It will and then folks will look at Lithium mining and realize how bad that is. And then there is the Geopolitical issues, when we are reliant on another country for something as simple as transportation that’s a risk. Honestly that’s the one that scares me the most.

Next is supporting EV with the grid. Currently we don’t have the capacity. We could, but that would require building Nuclear, NG, and yes *gasp* Coal plants. The reason I say that is while NG is plentiful, it’s a huge risk only going NG when how many millions of homes rely on NG for heat.

I’ve said this many times. EVs are cool, we need something better then Lithium batteries, and if EV is the way - holy shit get off your asses and start building some power plants! That can take 5-10 years! (Not renewables, some fine but not reliable depending on where you live).

Anyways I’m sorry I just contributed to a thread that needs to die. It’ll never stop. lol