[FlukeSS]

Originally Posted by ericsmith881

Reaching out to anyone who has the Speed Engineering headers. Did you have any issues fitting them? Any chassis mods required? Do they rub/rattle on anything?

Running 2" SE LT (cat delete) headers. Shop had no issues for me

But my shop said the X-Pipe was a bit of a pain, but they made it work without much issue.

Only real issue I had with the X-Pipe was when the pipe settled it was rattling against the cross member brace (they "shimmied" the cross member brace no rattling issue now)

[ericsmith881]

Originally Posted by FlukeSS

Running 2" SE LT (cat delete) headers. Shop had no issues for me

But my shop said the X-Pipe was a bit of a pain, but they made it work without much issue.

Only real issue I had with the X-Pipe was when the pipe settled it was rattling against the cross member brace (they "shimmied" the cross member brace no rattling issue now)

Is the X pipe standard or was that an option?

Of note, Vengeance Racing says they use Kooks headers because they've tested them for fit, no rattling, no chassis mods, just drop right in. They have NOT tested the SE headers and thus won't install/warranty them as one of their packages. That doesn't mean the SE's are a fit nightmare, but it also doesn't mean they're not.

Can anyone else comment on fit for Speed Engineering long tube headers as far as installation difficulties? Any chassis mods? Rattling? I really, really want to get the SE ones given the enormous savings over the Kooks, but I sure as hell don't want to inherit something that is a headache later due to poor fit/construction/durability/whatever.

Thanks!

[LT1ornothing]

Originally Posted by ericsmith881

Is the X pipe standard or was that an option?

Of note, Vengeance Racing says they use Kooks headers because they've tested them for fit, no rattling, no chassis mods, just drop right in. They have NOT tested the SE headers and thus won't install/warranty them as one of their packages. That doesn't mean the SE's are a fit nightmare, but it also doesn't mean they're not.

Can anyone else comment on fit for Speed Engineering long tube headers as far as installation difficulties? Any chassis mods? Rattling? I really, really want to get the SE ones given the enormous savings over the Kooks, but I sure as hell don't want to inherit something that is a headache later due to poor fit/construction/durability/whatever.

Thanks!

I don't have them, but intend to install the 2" speed engineering. The x pipe is optional. From what I have read, the headers are solid and fitment is good. The x pipes options are both crap, a reputable exhaust shop should be able to fab one up for you. Texas speed also offers a 2" header with a better off road mid pipe. The prices were comparable last time I was researching.

[FlukeSS]

Originally Posted by 1LEornothing

I don't have them, but intend to install the 2" speed engineering. The x pipe is optional. From what I have read, the headers are solid and fitment is good. The x pipes options are both crap, a reputable exhaust shop should be able to fab one up for you. Texas speed also offers a 2" header with a better off road mid pipe. The prices were comparable last time I was researching.

Yes the X-Pipe is optional. I chose to add it to my car.

[Choda]

Originally Posted by FlukeSS

Its a one time purchase with other added costs

$2000 for headers + a tune $500-$700 more or you can avoid the tune, then pay another $700 when you blow out your plugs.

You're a bit high on the pricing. Anyone who puts headers on their Camaro should get it tuned. Either way its still under the 3K minimum. The labor between the CSP and SW headers is going to eat up majority of the purchase price. That still leaves him ~$1,000 for e85 or CAI or tires...



CSP headers = best fitment $1,700


Remove steering shaft. Leave the engine and trans alone. Both go in from the bottom.

https://www.cspracing.com/complete-s...ro/csp-camaro/


Stainless works $1,150



Remove steering shaft. Guy had to remove valve cover, remove coils, remove coolant tank, loosen engine mounts, loosen trans mounts, had to lift engine. Passenger side goes in from the top. Drive side from the bottom.

[FlukeSS]

Originally Posted by Choda

You're a bit high on the pricing. Anyone who puts headers on their Camaro should get it tuned. Either way its still under the 3K minimum. The labor between the CSP and SW headers is going to eat up majority of the purchase price. That still leaves him ~$1,000 for e85 or CAI or tires...



CSP headers = best fitment $1,700


Remove steering shaft. Leave the engine and trans alone. Both go in from the bottom.




Stainless works $1,150


Remove steering shaft. Guy had to remove valve cover, remove coils, remove coolant tank, loosen engine mounts, loosen trans mounts, had to lift engine. Passenger side goes in from the top. Drive side from the bottom.

The OP is tryin to stay between $3000-$4000.

You don't do that with Kooks Headers, or CSP. Unless that is ALL you are going to do in terms of budget. I understand fitment is a big detail for people. But 2" Speed Engineering had no fitment issues on my car. Why would I pay $1700+ for headers that fit the same when these SE headers ran me $550. And I had a higher performance gain with my budget parts than my pro shops SP525 package for $5500.

If you are going to add power for $3000-$4000 you can do a lot more by just saving some money on the headers alone.

$3000 for 25hp gain is not my idea of bang for buck. And as I mentioned earlier, head to head one header is the same as another. The difference really is rather or not you want a Sony DVD Player, or a Toyo DVD Player.

Now 60rwhp gain for $3500 would be considered bang for buck. And that is inclusive of all parts, install, and dyno tuned out the door. If you find the right shop of course.

[Choda]

right on

[FlukeSS]

Originally Posted by Choda

right on

I guess to be fair. People who can do Kooks headers probably do their own labor. But, for someone who isn't that mechanically inclined like me. Kooks were not a budget option.

[ericsmith881]

So I'm now in a bit of a bind on choice.

On one hand, I have Vengeance Racing. Their Stage 1 package has Kooks long tubes + X pipe, Rotofab CAI, a catch can, 180-degree thermostat, tune, plus a few other things like a warranty. All-in cost is around $7500...which seems like a lot of money for not that much stuff. They will not install anything but Kooks long tubes. They're also booked solid until at least September.

On the other hand, I have Injected Engineering which is only a couple of miles from my house. They generally stick to Mopar and Ford, but they would do a header/X-pipe + Rotofab + tune for me. No warranty, no coat on the headers, no catch can, no additional goodies. Problem is they want to go with Stainless Works headers and want to charge north of $6000. This also seems extravagant.

Is this just what I should expect these days? Vengeance didn't itemize their costs, but Injected did. They put in $1200 for labor to install headers alone...which is more than a set of Speed Engineering COATED long tubes will probably set me back.

Can someone weigh in on whether these costs are considered out of line? The things I really want are:

- coated headers, installed, with X-pipe
- Rotofab CAI
- Catch can
- Tune

Paying $6500-$7500 for that just seems like...a lot. I had heads ported/polished, 2.02/1.60 swirl polished, three-angle undercut stainless valves, headers + cats, rockers, cam, MAF, 3.73 rear end gears, and a tune put in my 1996 SS Camaro for about $12k. I was making about 400rwhp off that. Yes, that was about 15 years ago but that's a helluva lot more work and results than this would be.

I've never installed headers before but if these are the going rates, I may consider trying it. Either that or someone suggest a decent shop that doesn't charge $1200 to install some headers.

[s346k]

title of the thread is best way to spend 3-4k. last post showing 6-7500. so which is it?

i would opt out of the "180 t stat". the factory tstat in my 18 1LE holds coolant temps at 178 while going down the road. i imagine the ss is the same.

i did 2" speed engineering headers on my car, worst part is the x pipe. the headers are great, been on there over 2 years and 20k miles.

unless you have baby hands, you'll want to remove things like the coolant tank & coils, steering shaft etc during install. there is very little room. it makes things easier and lessens the chance of breaking something else.

if you buy speed engineering headers i highly suggest you get v bands on them prior to installation. unless youre good with a welder, you'll need to find someone to install the v bands and cut/modify the exhaust for you.

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by ericsmith881

So I'm now in a bit of a bind on choice.

On one hand, I have Vengeance Racing. Their Stage 1 package has Kooks long tubes + X pipe, Rotofab CAI, a catch can, 180-degree thermostat, tune, plus a few other things like a warranty. All-in cost is around $7500...which seems like a lot of money for not that much stuff. They will not install anything but Kooks long tubes. They're also booked solid until at least September.

On the other hand, I have Injected Engineering which is only a couple of miles from my house. They generally stick to Mopar and Ford, but they would do a header/X-pipe + Rotofab + tune for me. No warranty, no coat on the headers, no catch can, no additional goodies. Problem is they want to go with Stainless Works headers and want to charge north of $6000. This also seems extravagant.

Is this just what I should expect these days? Vengeance didn't itemize their costs, but Injected did. They put in $1200 for labor to install headers alone...which is more than a set of Speed Engineering COATED long tubes will probably set me back.

Can someone weigh in on whether these costs are considered out of line? The things I really want are:

- coated headers, installed, with X-pipe
- Rotofab CAI
- Catch can
- Tune

Paying $6500-$7500 for that just seems like...a lot. I had heads ported/polished, 2.02/1.60 swirl polished, three-angle undercut stainless valves, headers + cats, rockers, cam, MAF, 3.73 rear end gears, and a tune put in my 1996 SS Camaro for about $12k. I was making about 400rwhp off that. Yes, that was about 15 years ago but that's a helluva lot more work and results than this would be.

I've never installed headers before but if these are the going rates, I may consider trying it. Either that or someone suggest a decent shop that doesn't charge $1200 to install some headers.

I think you're seeing now why many of us tried to steer you away from Kooks or high dollar headers. 6th Gen modification is quite a bit more expensive than 5th gen was, no way to get near $4k without using some budget headers.

Good luck man, wish you had more choices near you.

[Trochoidal]

Originally Posted by ericsmith881

Thank you all for the info and amazing suggestions! I'll give Vengeance a call tomorrow.

Questions on headers. Numerous posts suggested going with Speed Engineering headers vs. the Kooks. First, do them come coated? I've always had coated headers on my past rides and it's always been a good investment. Second, their website offers wires and an O2 sensor extension. Are these needed? This car is a daily driver so it needs to pass emissions and not throw CEL's. I presume this means cats are needed? If so, I'm also guessing the stock cats won't fit the headers? Any advice here is appreciated.

Last, I do appreciate the suggestions for E85. I have seen the power gains, but there's practically no E85 stations anywhere near me so it would be hugely inconvenient. I've also read a lot about alcohol fuels necessitating more frequent oil changes which would add to the inconvenience. Maybe a future thing but for now it doesn't feel practical.

Is this station close enough to jump on the E85 upgrade?

Race Trac
840 Church St. NW
Marietta, Georgia 30060

I ask because knowing what I know now I’d buy:

1) LT2 manifold ready to bolt on with adapter ($443 - GPI or used)
2) 95mm TB ($179 - Rock Auto)
3) E85 kit ($399 - Jannetty)

$1021 total.

Pay someone to put it on the car if you can’t.

If you can’t get in until September for tuning, use onE of the sponsored vendors for remote tuning. You’ll learn more about logging your car, saving tunes and writing tunes. Plus you’ll be within your budget.

This will give your the best bang for your money spent.

I know there are no headers or RF in the list but this would get you started until round 2 of upgrades.

[wnta1ss]

Originally Posted by Trochoidal

I ask because knowing what I know now I’d buy:

1) LT2 manifold ready to bolt on with adapter ($443 - GPI or used)
2) 95mm TB ($179 - Rock Auto)

I have to disagree with putting a 95 onto an 87mm manifold, because it would not give the full benefit of the 95. Instead, if you really like the LT2 manifold, then I'd suggest getting the full-boat ported one from GPI that is modded for a 95 throttle ($869 with an adapter). Also then specify the adapter as the 95 straight one, NOT the 95 to 87, which is actually a restrictor plate. Benefit of the 95 is larger hole for more airflow, but then you're going to choke it down? No thanks. The max-effort modded LT2 should be nearly as good as an out-of-the-box MSD, and the price at 869 is lower than an MSD, addressing budget concerns.

[s346k]

Originally Posted by wnta1ss

I have to disagree with putting a 95 onto an 87mm manifold, because it would not give the full benefit of the 95. Instead, if you really like the LT2 manifold, then I'd suggest getting the full-boat ported one from GPI that is modded for a 95 throttle ($869 with an adapter). Also then specify the adapter as the 95 straight one, NOT the 95 to 87, which is actually a restrictor plate. Benefit of the 95 is larger hole for more airflow, but then you're going to choke it down? No thanks. The max-effort modded LT2 should be nearly as good as an out-of-the-box MSD, and the price at 869 is lower than an MSD, addressing budget concerns.

or you can give up 10 whp and save yourself $600 by reusing the stock throttle body. LT2 manifolds are $214 from summit.