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Old 05-20-2019, 07:19 PM   #1
GunMetalGrey

 
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1st Track Day; Surging/Stumbling Power loss after corner on straight stretches

Hey guys, had my 1st track day...

It was going great (considering it rained most of the time) but when ever my gas tank got near 1/2 full my car would start Surging, Stumbling and Lurching (violent power loss) on straight stretches AFTER hard sustained corners. This happened in the dry and the wet.

The check engine light finally came on by the end of the day.

This happened last year on the street only after sustained hard cornering on long looping off ramps and on ramps onto or off of the highway.
The dealership replaced the fuel pump and I thought it solved the problem but apparently not...

Thoughts or ideas as to what could be causing this fuel starvation?

Obviously I'll be booking it into the dealership asap, but if anyone has had this problem I'd love to know what it is so I can skip the "trial and error" approach my dealership will probably take.
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Old 05-21-2019, 10:12 AM   #2
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Sorry to hear it! Hope they will have some codes to work with. Perhaps also post it in a ZL1 section? Best of luck!
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Old 05-21-2019, 10:29 AM   #3
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Here's a link on possible causes. Dirty fuel might be one of them too i suppose? So is starting a car when stored for winter (which can build up moisture and deposits).
https://www.yourmechanic.com/article...by-tim-charlet
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Old 05-21-2019, 02:01 PM   #4
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Update; took a long hard corner with 1/8 tank of gas left and the car never recovered...

It stumbled choked lurched for 60 seconds until it stalled.

I turned the car off (the electronics were still on) and it did a weird 5 second battery flicker thingy.... I then restarted it and drove it straight to the dealership.

We will see what they come up with...
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Old 05-21-2019, 02:02 PM   #5
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Sorry to hear it! Hope they will have some codes to work with. Perhaps also post it in a ZL1 section? Best of luck!
Thanks
U bet, did that too.
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Old 05-22-2019, 03:07 PM   #6
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UPDATE

Dealership said it's the 2nd defective fuel pump in a row... I find it a little hard to believe I could have this bad of luck, is there anything else that could be causing the fuel pump to prematurely fail twice in 1 year?
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Old 05-22-2019, 05:19 PM   #7
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Crazy if it indeed was another failed fuel pump. I had some fuel starving on track when trying to go too light on the fuel load when being stingy in a couple TT runs. But I learned not to start with 3/8's of a tank, and have been good since in the high G's or banked corners. I was watching to see how you made out. Hope it solves your problem though!! I'm sure you'll get it figured out, by just knowing how particular and on top of it you seem in your posts. Hang in there, thanks for the update!
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Old 05-22-2019, 05:50 PM   #8
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Crazy if it indeed was another failed fuel pump. I had some fuel starving on track when trying to go too light on the fuel load when being stingy in a couple TT runs. But I learned not to start with 3/8's of a tank, and have been good since in the high G's or banked corners. I was watching to see how you made out. Hope it solves your problem though!! I'm sure you'll get it figured out, by just knowing how particular and on top of it you seem in your posts. Hang in there, thanks for the update!
Thanks I hope so too!

Frustrating but not a big deal unless it happens again, then I will definitely think there is more to this than bad luck and look for what else is causing this.

#1st world problems
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Old 05-22-2019, 06:09 PM   #9
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Definitely bad luck, these cars don't seem to have fuel starving issues. I've ran it till the fuel low warning came on and I still did a few more laps of Sebring.
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Old 05-22-2019, 09:55 PM   #10
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Ya my experience the same zero sensitivity to low fuel...also this would make it a 3rd fuel pump in a row counting the original so defo something else is at play here. Either the dealer is happy to charge GM with significant labour for fuel pump replacement, or they havent checked other possible causes (See my prior link).
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Old 05-23-2019, 01:25 PM   #11
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Ya my experience the same zero sensitivity to low fuel...also this would make it a 3rd fuel pump in a row counting the original so defo something else is at play here. Either the dealer is happy to charge GM with significant labour for fuel pump replacement, or they havent checked other possible causes (See my prior link).
I'll check it out for sure, however this problem only occurs after long hard corners and with 1/2 tank of fuel or less, never at any other time, so I think that has to do something with g-forces or else it would be impacting the car in other situations.

I'll read it over and post a reply after I do.
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Old 05-23-2019, 04:23 PM   #12
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I'd have them check for all possible causes just to make sure. If a fuel pump was at fault chances are it would act up under all conditions? I usually start my runs with just over half a tank as the car rotates better with a lighter rear for me. I never run it dry but i empty it pretty good with zero issues. Also, if it were to be G force related you'd likely experience it mid corner. Anyway, just guessing here. Hope you get it fixed pronto. If they cant find a root cause switch a dealer perhaps.
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Old 05-23-2019, 05:41 PM   #13
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I do a lot of endurance racing. We are always running the car right to or past empty. What you describe is certainly indicative of fuel starvation. The car will exhibit the stalling or hesitation after the corner, simply because there is already fuel in the lines from going straight, before the corner. That fuel generally keeps the car running through the corner. Once in the corner, gravity moves the fuel away from the pick up and the hesitation is almost always on acceleration after the corner. It’s how we know we better get the car in the pits for fuel immediately.

What you describe seems to me it’s not the fuel pump per se, as it was clearly working right before the corner, and you burned very little more fuel in the corner. It seems more likely to me something is preventing fuel pick up below X fuel level, with a given G force sloshing the fuel away from the pump.

I haven’t torn apart one of our Camaro tanks (I’ve had too many BMW E30 tanks on the shop floor, lol), to know exactly how/where the pump sits, or if there are pick up tubes involved.

I could be entirely wrong, but my guess is you have a fuel pick up issue. Could be something blocking the pickup, something defective within the tank preventing the fuel from returning to the lowest spot, or somehow the pump installed in such a manner where it doesn’t reach all the way to the low spot of the tank.

For this to be a fuel pump issue, it would seem that all 3 pumps would have had to fail at the exact time you went around a corner. That to me seems very unlikely.

Good luck to you, and please keep us updated.
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Old 05-23-2019, 06:36 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluebarchetta View Post
I do a lot of endurance racing. We are always running the car right to or past empty. What you describe is certainly indicative of fuel starvation. The car will exhibit the stalling or hesitation after the corner, simply because there is already fuel in the lines from going straight, before the corner. That fuel generally keeps the car running through the corner. Once in the corner, gravity moves the fuel away from the pick up and the hesitation is almost always on acceleration after the corner. It’s how we know we better get the car in the pits for fuel immediately.

What you describe seems to me it’s not the fuel pump per se, as it was clearly working right before the corner, and you burned very little more fuel in the corner. It seems more likely to me something is preventing fuel pick up below X fuel level, with a given G force sloshing the fuel away from the pump.

I haven’t torn apart one of our Camaro tanks (I’ve had too many BMW E30 tanks on the shop floor, lol), to know exactly how/where the pump sits, or if there are pick up tubes involved.

I could be entirely wrong, but my guess is you have a fuel pick up issue. Could be something blocking the pickup, something defective within the tank preventing the fuel from returning to the lowest spot, or somehow the pump installed in such a manner where it doesn’t reach all the way to the low spot of the tank.

For this to be a fuel pump issue, it would seem that all 3 pumps would have had to fail at the exact time you went around a corner. That to me seems very unlikely.

Good luck to you, and please keep us updated.
I like your line of reasoning, it makes sense to me and it was something I had started thinking about yesterday as well.

I'm going to take your thinking and apply it and get them to take a look around when they get in there because I also can't see why the fuel pump would only act up at the end of a long hard corner or after a long hard corner if the fuel pump itself is the problem.
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