[Mishimoto]

Originally Posted by Blacksapphire

Does the order come with all necessary items to install?

Sure does! This is a full bolt-on kit including the catch can, catch can bracket, hardware, and molded silicone lines with quick-disconnect fittings.

Originally Posted by SUMMIT WHITE SS

Still won't totally stop it...thus why all the coyote guys run them. I had my VVT tuned on mine, and still would pick up some oil in the catch can, and that engine wasn't even direct injected. A catch can is cheap insurance, why some choose to argue their validity makes no sense (not saying you, in general). If you don't want to add one, fine, but that doesn't mean they don't help, especially with VVT and direct injection...

Good points.

Originally Posted by Nicul15

I had a catch can on my coyote from the minute i drove it on the driveway.

i think for me its gonna come down to me pulling the intake off my 2014 silverado to see what the damage is after 60,000 miles.

Definitely interested in seeing images if you pull the manifold!

Thanks
-John

[fastball]

Originally Posted by Mishimoto

The impact of this amount of oil passing through the manifold has yet to be fully quantified for the LT1. How long will it take for the valves to see substantial buildup? How much performance will I lose, and in what time period? I can’t provide a concrete answer to these as there are far too many variables in play. I can say that other DI vehicles have experienced buildup causing CEL illuminations and degraded performance.

So does this mean in 5 years I'm going to have to have the heads and valves removed and cleaned of carbon for $1500????

I'm not asking you perse, it's a rhetorical question really..... no manufacturer, not GM, not Ford, not Honda, not VW or Audi, should be producing engines with this type of system without acatch can or some other system to keep things from happening.

I'm really speaking for the general car customer who isn't a gear head and has no idea the difference between an intake manifold and a garage door opener. Many cars have direct inject now and if there's a problem with that design at high mileage they need to either fix the problem or quit using that design and go back to multi-port fuel injection.

If too many people have to pay outrageous bills for valve jobs at 100,000 miles that won't be good. People are reasonable to expect they have to do belt changes and routine fluid changes. Carbon cleaning?

All I'm saying is DI should have been well tested before being implemented into mass production.

[fastball]

Originally Posted by SUMMIT WHITE SS

Still won't totally stop it...thus why all the coyote guys run them. I had my VVT tuned on mine, and still would pick up some oil in the catch can, and that engine wasn't even direct injected. A catch can is cheap insurance, why some choose to argue their validity makes no sense (not saying you, in general). If you don't want to add one, fine, but that doesn't mean they don't help, especially with VVT and direct injection...

Please understand I'm not questioning the validity of it..... I'm questioning why GM - or ANY company - doesn't design and build their engines with them if they require one.

[SS 1LE]

Originally Posted by fastball

Please understand I'm not questioning the validity of it..... I'm questioning why GM - or ANY company - doesn't design and build their engines with them if they require one.

The LT1 in the Camaro DOES have a version of one...but I do not think it will be enough. But, as to why you don't see it on more VVT/direct injection engines is it brings the dealers service departments more cash flow when customers are told to have their engines "cleaned" every 25,000 miles or whatever. I had a Mazdaspeed3 (VVT/direct injection, and not the best setup) as my daily driver years back, the owners manual recommended a "engine cleaning" every 30,000 miles if I recall at a $300 price. Which cleaned the top end and such to get the gunk off that may have built up.

That was the first car I started to use a catch can with...used it on my coyote (VVT, but not direct injection) from day one, it had nearly no oil on the throttle body or in the intake. My buddy with the same car, no catch can, had tons of build up...

[ussj4brolli]

I would be curious to see what the spark plugs look like

[fastball]

Originally Posted by SUMMIT WHITE SS

The LT1 in the Camaro DOES have a version of one...but I do not think it will be enough. But, as to why you don't see it on more VVT/direct injection engines is it brings the dealers service departments more cash flow when customers are told to have their engines "cleaned" every 25,000 miles or whatever. I had a Mazdaspeed3 (VVT/direct injection, and not the best setup) as my daily driver years back, the owners manual recommended a "engine cleaning" every 30,000 miles if I recall at a $300 price. Which cleaned the top end and such to get the gunk off. Audi and VW do the same thing if I recall.

That was the first car I started to use a catch can with...

When did GM start using DI on the small block V8s? Do the Corvette owners install catch cans on their LT1s?

[Glen e]

Yes they do. but GM did not put a Catch can on the LT1 so dealers could make more money. GM does not give a damn about dealers making more money, trust me. GM's stance is still the LT1 does not need it. Confirmed over and over and all the Corvette fests in the last 2 to 3 years , it always comes up. I don't have a personal feeling one way or another , just recording what's over on the forums over there. I'm still a Tech contributor there.

[SS 1LE]

Originally Posted by fastball

When did GM start using DI on the small block V8s? Do the Corvette owners install catch cans on their LT1s?

There are many levels of VVT tuning, performance based, mileage based, emissions based etc...some give more build up and are harder on oil then others. Just because you have oil build up and such doesn't mean you will feel a loss of power. If it gets to that point, it's really bad. But the oil build up if not attended to will effect octane levels in the gasoline. I can guarantee that if you popped that S2000 engine open, you would have had oil build up. Just not at the levels that direct injection can cause...

GM started using direct injection over the last few years. Do all C7 owners use catch cans, of course not, most are pretty clueless in most cases. All the C7 owners that I know have a catch can, as do many on Corvette Forums...for $100 or so, it is a great addition.

[SS 1LE]

Originally Posted by Glen e

Yes they do. but GM did not put a Catch can on the LT1 so dealers could make more money. GM does not give a damn about dealers making more money, trust me. GM's stance is still the LT1 does not need it. Confirmed over and over and all the Corvette fests in the last 2 to 3 years , it always comes up.

FYI, the LT1 in the Camaro DOES have a version of a catch can from the factory...

[Glen e]

Originally Posted by SUMMIT WHITE SS

FYI, the LT1 in the Camaro DOES have a version of a catch can from the factory...

Yes I know that. Dont really care, if you think its necessary then mount one. It's kind of ridiculous to have fights over this. But if you want to see this really heat up I'll publish what was sent from a GM engineer to one of the main big Corvette dealers about this subject.

I think my friend Barry on post 16 pretty much nailed it.

[FlightSoftware]

http://www.edmunds.com/autoobserver-...-adopters.html

Good article, with one case of documented drop in performance due to build up. Also about how some engines are much less prone to build up.

Many automakers’ gasoline DI engines do not appear to exhibit any carbon build-up issues at all, however. Digging into online threads about Cadillac’s 3.6-liter DI V6 in its popular CTS lineup does reveal some owner concerns about carbon build-up, but it’s difficult to find even a single report that any build-up has actually occurred – a record that is notable considering that Cadillac has sold more than 200,000 CTS models with DI V6s (Audi sold fewer than 2,000 RS 4s in the US during its two-year sales run).

Haider, GM’s V6 assistant chief engineer, explained how GM has designed its DI engines to combat carbon buildup: “We maintain great engine function and performance in our all our DI engines through an optimization strategy with our valve events,” he said. “Our intake-cam timing, injector targeting and timing of the injection events are optimized to avoid direct fuel contact on the intake valves. This strategy keeps smoke and soot formation to an absolute minimum, which in turn prevents excessive deposit formation.”

At the Detroit Auto Show in January, Ford was confident enough about its popular 3.5 liter EcoBoost direct-injection V6 to have technicians tear down an example engine that had accumulated the equivalent of 160,000 miles through an intentionally abusive regimen of log dragging, high-speed towing and desert racing. When they opened it up before a live audience, they found some light carbon deposits on the valves and pistons, but not enough to affect performance. In fact, the engine showed a loss of just one horsepower afterwards – roughly what Boyadjiev’s RS 4 engine lost every 500 miles.

[SS 1LE]

Originally Posted by Glen e

Yes I know that. Dont really care, if you think its necessary then mount one. It's kind of ridiculous to have fights over this. But if you want to see this really heat up I'll publish what was sent from a GM engineer to one of the main big Corvette dealers about this subject.

I think my friend Barry on post 16 pretty much nailed it.

Whose fighting, not I? And why are you getting testy lol? It's cool to have different opinions.

But...

FYI, GM can say what they want to cover themselves, they have done it many times before. The ignition issue ring a bell? They also said C6 Z06 has no valve issues, then made upgrades...just to name a few things engineers said to simply cover their asses.

Even GM has realized the LT1 needs it, hence why they added it to the latest LT1. Rumors on LS1Tech are that the Vette will get it next MY too.

I've seen the improvements a catch can can make first hand. Lingenfelter, L&M, TSP, RPM, etc, all recommend them.......and Ford even adds two to all GT350's seeing track time. It's your car, do want you want of course...

[6spdhyperblue]

There is a difference between releasing something to customers to about current problems(covering their ass) and submitting something in a SAE publication concluding a project with 100s of millions of dollars of R&D in science and engineering.


Adding a catch can will help coking. GM adding a catch can doesn't disprove what they previously published.

Again, the publication states the MAJORITY of coking is from gases reverting back into the intake port during the overlap interval(both valves open).

That means a MINOR percentage of coking is from oil in the intake. So adding the catch can will only mitigate that smaller percentage.

That still means the catch can does work and likely worth the investment.

[freddyD]

I had a 2002 corvette,changed the oil every 4000 miles,once a year,drove the hell out of it,no catch can,sold it with 94k miles on it NEVER a problem ever,ever!