[396ssrat]

Originally Posted by Aragorn

I see the the sarcasm, but...

“Weather reflects short-term conditions of the atmosphere while climate is the average daily weather for an extended period of time at a certain location. ... Weather can change from minute-to-minute, hour-to-hour, day-to-day, and season-to-season. Climate, is the average of weather over time and space.”

Kind of like The Twilight Zone

[I`m Batman]

The Earth is BILLIONS of years old, it went through hot and cold cycles, ice age, without human intervention. We're still coming out of an ice age... Dinosaur farts?
We only have real data for just a little over 100 years out of BILLIONS of years and we and everyone on this forum knows EVERYTHING because they read it on the internet or saw it on TV!

This whole conversation reminds me of this... "Dunning Kruger Effect"
And everyone is at the "I know everything" phase.

[Chevelle vs Camaro]

Originally Posted by ember1205

"Good for you", too.

I have a sealant on the paint, re-up it periodically, only drive the car in good weather, wash frequently, and have a high pressure output from the hose. Everything works together to give me results I'm happy with. Everyone has to evaluate the ENTIRE set of variables collectively.

Better soaps available? Yes. But, it's about balancing cost, effort, results, etc. The analogy to a turbo Camaro vs. the V8 is funny, and not at all relevant.

Relevant in the sense that thats all you’ve tried so it seems like a good soap (and it is for an OTC product)

If all you ever driven is a turbo 4.... their quick. Some would say even fast.

I think it’s a perfect anology pointing out your only vantage point is from gold class point of view. As someone who only drove a turbo 4 point of view.

You’ve never used Hyper wash as you stated and it is a better soap.

Give it a try....


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[Chevelle vs Camaro]

I do think that a thread about frozen soap/OJ can spur a climate change discussion in a Camaro forum....Awesome


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[17rsvert]

Originally Posted by I`m Batman

The Earth is BILLIONS of years old, it went through hot and cold cycles, ice age, without human intervention. We're still coming out of an ice age... Dinosaur farts?
We only have real data for just a little over 100 years out of BILLIONS of years and we and everyone on this forum knows EVERYTHING because they read it on the internet or saw it on TV!

This whole conversation reminds me of this... "Dunning Kruger Effect"
And everyone is at the "I know everything" phase.

Reminds me of something I heard years ago about the history of science and engineering. At the end of the 1800's scientists were speculating that advancements in their fields had come so far and they had learned so much that in a few decades more there would be nothing left to learn because everything would have been discovered already.

[ember1205]

Originally Posted by Aragorn

This is from nasa.gov

The current warming trend is of particular significance because most of it is extremely likely (greater than 95% probability) to be the result of human activity since the mid-20th century and proceeding at a rate that is unprecedented over decades to millennia.1

Earth-orbiting satellites and other technological advances have enabled scientists to see the big picture, collecting many different types of information about our planet and its climate on a global scale. This body of data, collected over many years, reveals the signals of a changing climate.

The heat-trapping nature of carbon dioxide and other gases was demonstrated in the mid-19th century.2 Their ability to affect the transfer of infrared energy through the atmosphere is the scientific basis of many instruments flown by NASA. There is no question that increased levels of greenhouse gases must cause Earth to warm in response.

Ice cores drawn from Greenland, Antarctica, and tropical mountain glaciers show that Earth’s climate responds to changes in greenhouse gas levels. Ancient evidence can also be found in tree rings, ocean sediments, coral reefs, and layers of sedimentary rocks. This ancient, or paleoclimate, evidence reveals that current warming is occurring roughly ten times faster than the average rate of ice-age-recovery warming. Carbon dioxide from human activity is increasing more than 250 times faster than it did from natural sources after the last Ice Age.3

Ice cores and tree rings are data points, but they represent a sort of "average" data point taken over a long period of time. Until we look back on today 100,000 years in the future with the same "lens", we can't make accurate comaprisons because we don't have data points today that were available 100 million years ago and vice versa. So, while I'm not saying that any of that data is inaccurate, wrong, misleading, etc., I -am- saying that we are on a very different scale in terms of data.

Originally Posted by Chevelle vs Camaro

Relevant in the sense that thats all you’ve tried so it seems like a good soap (and it is for an OTC product)

If all you ever driven is a turbo 4.... their quick. Some would say even fast.

I think it’s a perfect anology pointing out your only vantage point is from gold class point of view. As someone who only drove a turbo 4 point of view.

You’ve never used Hyper wash as you stated and it is a better soap.

Give it a try....


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I said that it's all I've been using which is in reference to the Camaro. I've used PLENTY of soaps over the years and found that most of them are basically the same. I've owned homes with city water and well water, used wash bays with filtered water, used a pressure washer to rinse and just a hose... The surface of the paint has far more to do with how easily it will clean than the specific chemical formulation of a soap. Paint and clear coat that are in very good to excellent condition, are polished, and are sealed properly will clean up with little more than sprayed water. And if you can get pretty much all of the dust and debris off with water, very little soap will stick around either no matter how it's made.

Your analogy is not valid. The notion that someone would -ONLY- have ever drive a 6th gen turbo 4 Camaro is pretty much unattainable. And it's the sole basis on which the rest of the comparison is based.

Why does a soap need to rinse "better" than another to be better soap? What about rinseless?

[Realist]

Originally Posted by cellsafemode

Really? what example? The vast amount of power produced in texas comes from fossil fuels. Wells for which are frozen, prohibiting the delivery of fuel to those plants. Not the 7% of energy produced by the meager amount of windmills that the governor is straight up lying about to the media. That's a failure of fossil fuels. Not green energy. That's from the people who produce the electricity in texas.

The US is at a disadvantage when it lets other nations lead the world instead of it. It's at a disadvantage when it lets problems become un-ignorable before acting on them just to line the pockets of the already rich. And it's definitely at a disadvantage when the rich and already in-power have convinced the public to fight eachother like they're on some stupid sports team instead of having their attention on having a representative voice in power that works for them.

From what I understood, one of the issues is the idled power plants have frozen equipment. Had they actually spread the use out over the plants they may not have froze. The plants were idled in a cost saving/green push thus frozen equipment. And yes the frozen windmills as well.

Again all I’m saying is those that push it should put up some of their own $’s to support it. Give a few thousand $’s a year, the billionaire could give a billion, millionaires give a million and it will add up. On every Fed 1040 would be an area where you could put how much YOU are willing to pay toward green. Corporate donations as well can add up. It’s time people truly put THEIR money where their mouth is.

[zaimer]

Originally Posted by Chevelle vs Camaro

I do think that a thread about frozen soap/OJ can spur a climate change discussion in a Camaro forum....Awesome


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Right? I'm going to try to sit the remainder of the discussion out, regarding the climate change anyway. I love the Camaro forum and don't need to butt heads with any more people than I have. There is a reason that I left Facebook!

[Aragorn]

Originally Posted by I`m Batman

The Earth is BILLIONS of years old, it went through hot and cold cycles, ice age, without human intervention. We're still coming out of an ice age... Dinosaur farts?
We only have real data for just a little over 100 years out of BILLIONS of years and we and everyone on this forum knows EVERYTHING because they read it on the internet or saw it on TV!

This whole conversation reminds me of this... "Dunning Kruger Effect"
And everyone is at the "I know everything" phase.

That is a very good point about people on this forum knowing everything about climate change. That’s why I am always surprised when somebody here without a PhD in climate science adamantly claims to know what’s going on. I for one will not claim to be an expert, but what I can do is read and research from credible sites and peer reviewed research. Lastly, let’s not forget that 97% of the scientific community are in agreement here.

[cellsafemode]

Originally Posted by Realist

From what I understood, one of the issues is the idled power plants have frozen equipment. Had they actually spread the use out over the plants they may not have froze. The plants were idled in a cost saving/green push thus frozen equipment. And yes the frozen windmills as well.

Just no.

The pipelines at the wells were frozen foremost. They weren't de-humidifying the pipes used in them at the point of extraction like places further north do.

They failed to listen to suggestions given to them the last time this happened (though on a much smaller scale). Because they didn't want to spend the money to winterize equipment to deal with the new normal of seasonal frozen temps (this polar vortex dipping into texas happens pretty much yearly now).

They were not "idling" 50% of their winter power capacity. The failure to deal with winter weather has nothing to do with being green and everything to do with the electric authority there ignoring what they had been told they should do, and with texas thinking they dont need anyone else so they dont tie their electric grid in to the nation's.

[Lex2021]

Hey, you can use that like a bar of soap. So get dressed up, defrost the garden hose and get to it Mr.!

[Aragorn]

Originally Posted by ember1205

Ice cores and tree rings are data points, but they represent a sort of "average" data point taken over a long period of time. Until we look back on today 100,000 years in the future with the same "lens", we can't make accurate comaprisons because we don't have data points today that were available 100 million years ago and vice versa. So, while I'm not saying that any of that data is inaccurate, wrong, misleading, etc., I -am- saying that we are on a very different scale in terms of data.
?

Bubbles found in the ice cores contain elements that are basically blueprints of the entire planet, which were frozen and basically trapped at that moment. Scientists can see what was going on and what caused it I E snowfall, temperature, winds CO2 and so on. From there it’s relatively easy for them to compare their findings to what is going on now which is obviously elevated CO2 levels and warmer temps.

[ember1205]

Originally Posted by Aragorn

Bubbles found in the ice cores contain elements that are basically blueprints of the entire planet, which were frozen and basically trapped at that moment. Scientists can see what was going on and what caused it I E snowfall, temperature, winds CO2 and so on. From there it’s relatively easy for them to compare their findings to what is going on now which is obviously elevated CO2 levels and warmer temps.

I agree up to the last sentence because I don't agree that it's "relatively easy" to compare the data to what we have for the last couple of hundred years.

Think about it this way: There is simply no way to put exact dates on the samples being collected and analyzed. Date ranges for that sample are estimated and could be off by tens, hundreds, thousands, even tens of thousands of years. What we're able to understand from those data points is roughly equivalent to calculating the average MPG of your car over the last 100,000 miles of driving.

The data we have right now represents a time scale roughly equivalent to looking at the "instant" MPG in the dash while you're driving. Two totally different scales.

If we actually had the same amount of data and level of detail going back hundreds of thousands of years, we could drill down and actually see things at micro levels from previous times in history and make actual direct comparisons.

I was tinkering around with some numbers and came up with this, which I find interesting.

To give an idea of how long people have existed on Earth compared to the age of the planet: If the Earth celebrated its 145th birthday today, It would have existed all but the last 27 hours without people. The detailed climate data that we have to work with represents the last 20 seconds of time.

[Chevelle vs Camaro]

Originally Posted by ember1205

Ice cores and tree rings are data points, but they represent a sort of "average" data point taken over a long period of time. Until we look back on today 100,000 years in the future with the same "lens", we can't make accurate comaprisons because we don't have data points today that were available 100 million years ago and vice versa. So, while I'm not saying that any of that data is inaccurate, wrong, misleading, etc., I -am- saying that we are on a very different scale in terms of data.



I said that it's all I've been using which is in reference to the Camaro. I've used PLENTY of soaps over the years and found that most of them are basically the same. I've owned homes with city water and well water, used wash bays with filtered water, used a pressure washer to rinse and just a hose... The surface of the paint has far more to do with how easily it will clean than the specific chemical formulation of a soap. Paint and clear coat that are in very good to excellent condition, are polished, and are sealed properly will clean up with little more than sprayed water. And if you can get pretty much all of the dust and debris off with water, very little soap will stick around either no matter how it's made.

Your analogy is not valid. The notion that someone would -ONLY- have ever drive a 6th gen turbo 4 Camaro is pretty much unattainable. And it's the sole basis on which the rest of the comparison is based.

Why does a soap need to rinse "better" than another to be better soap? What about rinseless?

But a turbo for could be the fastest car they’ve owned so to that reference still fast to them. Still never been in a SS.

Relativity.... i took you saying all i used. Never mentioned only Camaro.

Your LSP has nothing to do with the soap rinsing clean. It could actually hinder the performance of the LSP.

That is where the benefits of a soap that rinses cleaner make a difference.

Rinse less is a whole different formulation and technology.... surfactants and stuff. Nit considered a detergent or soap.

The best car soap on the planet (CarPro Reset for me) cannot be wiped or sprayed on and wiped off.... different chemistry.

And you don’t want to get into rinse less with me.... i could do that all day.

Also if you do rinse less or waterless washes check out Ammo Frothe. Amazing stuff also.

And as i mentioned before if you buy your soaps OTC (Wal Mart or Autozones). Gold class is good relative to whats available.

If purchasing from them try Griots Brilliant shine car soap and their rinse less if available.

Check out Autogeek forum if your interested in reading about gold class issues.

You’ll find alot on the old google talking about where gold class strips LSP. Realistically it’s just clogging.




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