[Cgocifer]

Originally Posted by metros11

Same here. Although the overall package of the 1LE sold me, not just the looks. It's incredible what you get for your money, kudos to Chevy for pulling it off.

Same here. It was the overall package but I was willing to still go for the mustang, but the 1LE looks incredibly good too which sealed the deal.

[Cgocifer]

Originally Posted by Bosse'sBoss

I wonder if the new SS 1LE would come out also with the A10 automatic transmission? That should be a major hit.

I doubt it. There are many reasons why stick shifts are preferred on a track and the 1LE is built for the track.

['01LS1]

Originally Posted by apexit53

interesting thought that if this was the design they came out with.... how bad were the other ideas???? lol I can't imagine that meeting and them coming to the conclusion that "yes this is perfect, this is what we want." and being ok with it!

Take that a step further. The very same people that approved this are watching over the designers of the 7th Gen. Which am assuming is well under way if they are targeting a '21-22 release.

Originally Posted by Speedy1975

Is there a poll on here asking who likes the refresh and who doesn't? Maybe GM should poll this site before making changes like this. Sales surely wont' be good on this atrocity.

Link to Love it or Hate it poll. http://www.camaro6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=525604

[DCZ1LE]

Oh my gawd this is horrible. It looks awful. They all look awful.

I wasn't a big fan of gen6 styling, but it rocks compared to the refresh. I mean. . . just awful.

So yeah, I voted.

[my1stchevy]

Originally Posted by AN0NYM0US

Found one in red, wanted to take more pics but I was in a hurry...

Attachment 930693

Attachment 930694

I actually liked this pic compared to the pics of the grey model.

[Doc]

Originally Posted by Rwarchol

Honest question: Did Team Camaro change after the 5th gen? When the 5th gen was released and through the end, it never took design cues from other vehicles (albeit maybe a little from Corvette). They had unique grilles, headlights, and taillights. Gen 6 rolls around and now we have the LED strip in the headlights like the Cruz and bigger somewhat "D" shape lower grille like the Malibu and Cruz. Going from 2013-2014 they said they're making the upper grille opening smaller for aerodynamics and because not a lot of air was passing through anyways. Now with the refresh we're back to the huge upper grille like on the original 5th gen. Just seems like the design team is all over the place.

The 5th gen concept car was the vision of a single designer; it had nothing to do with committees, focus groups or polls. It wasn't perfect, but the moment I saw it I wanted one; it didn't have to 'grow' on me. It was a huge hit right out of the gate. Sangyup Lee, the original designer is no longer with Chevy.

What I'm seeing now is just confirmation of what I've felt has been going on ever since they did the first 'refresh'. This latest refresh to me, just illustrates the sad fact that the Chevy design department has no idea what to do with the Camaro. They have no vision of what a Camaro truly is or should be. The engineering team has delivered a spectacular performer; best high-performance sports gt America has ever produced. The body and interior however, just don't rise to the same level of brilliance.

I'm a Camaro fan. Blue Angel is still in my garage. It'll be 9 years now since I first picked it up after ordering it sight-unseen. I'd never driven one or seen one before I ordered it in May of 2009. I just knew I wanted it, and I've never regretted that decision. It pains me to see the design department floundering around with inconsistent, "I wonder if they'll like this?" attempts to modify the Camaro's looks and style.

Chevy's problem is they've priced the car into territory that has some seriously stiff competition. In September of last year, I bought a brand new Alfa Romeo Giulia Ti Lusso. It's Monte Carlo Blue with a Crema interior that's a stunning combination of Italian leather and real walnut. It came with a 280 hp turbo 4, and a chassis that's flat-out the best I've ever experienced. The car was designed by a team of Ferrari and Maserati engineers, and developed and tested in Ferrari's development center and wind tunnel. Essentially, it's a 4 door Ferrari. The price? The base model starts at about $39k, and the one I got which has just about every option you can get, retailed for about $53k. Their top performer, the Giulia Quadrifoglio has the Ferrari V6 with 505 hp, goes 190 mph and starts at about $75k.

For the same $50k, there's no comparison between the Camaro SS and the Giulia Ti. The Camaro has more power and would out-perform the Giulia on the track, but only because of horsepower. The steering and chassis of the Giulia is simply incredible. However... the body and interior of the Giulia exudes refinement, class and style. Pictures don't come close to doing it justice. When you see one in person the styling radiates beauty; a beautiful Italian sculpted masterpiece, with consistent lines and styles from front to back, and inside too. This car clearly was designed by people who had a distinct idea and understanding of what a modern Alfa Romeo should look like and be. All Giulia's, even the base model, come with a carbon fiber driveshaft standard.

Just because the Giulia was designed by Ferrari and Maserati designers, that shouldn't make that much difference. A pencil and sketchpad costs the same no matter what you're designing. Chevy's problem is a lack of vision. They just don't know what to do with the Camaro, which is sadly starting to make it look like the 5th gen was a fluke; inotherwords, they basically got lucky.

I haven't been in this forum for awhile, but I remember having discussions with Number 3 about the need for Chevy to re-invent the pony car and come out with a base Camaro that positions itself back in the sweet spot of the market base it used to be in. It's now gotten to the point where they're going to be in trouble with this car, unless they pull a pretty big rabbit out of their hat. It's getting killed in the price segment it's sitting in now. Track performance isn't enough. You can't really use that kind of performance on the street anymore, and how many people actually take their car to a track?

Keep the high performance models, but come out with a new vision of a re-invented Camaro pony car. The $40k-$80k affluent customer is not at all like the $20k-$30k customer. They are much more demanding, and they can be, because every car maker is going out of their way to cater to them. This includes style, features and looks; not just track performance.

Mark Reuss, or whoever is in charge of the Camaro... PLEASE find a designer with a vision! Forget polls and focus groups. That only leads to design that looks like something the government would do. No more toy robot crap. No more design by committee with 5 different groups in charge of 5 different parts of the car.

Compare what $50k gets you from the new Camaro SS versus the Alfa Romeo Giulia, and this is just in the style and looks department, which believe me, is seriously important to the buyer who can spend $50k:

Alfa Romeo Giulia:


Has a definite look of identity to the heritage of Alfa Romeo, yet is clearly a modern design. The cabin is spacious and has good visibility. Very comfortable to be in. A pure joy to drive.


2019 Camaro SS:


Everyone's already said enough about the front. The body side is too high, the cabin height is too squashed. Looks out of proportion.


Alfa Romeo Giulia interior:




Elegant. The display is beautifully integrated into the dash. Steering wheel has the start button on it, and is modern but retains a classic feel.


2019 Camaro:


Is this supposed to be some kind of a military look? Thick chunky steering wheel looks like something out of a truck. And the screen... really? Looks like an add-on someone bought at Auto-Zone. For $50k?


The fact that when you start it up, it runs and handles like cars twice it's price, just isn't enough to save it's image. Looks matter. People buy on the basis of how it makes them feel when they look at it. If Chevy doesn't figure this out with the 7th gen, it may be the last Camaro, only this time for real.

[GM-ACE]

After a week of thinking about it and seeing the wonderful renderings by the members here, my final conclusion is: this refresh sucks.
Camaro throughout it's generations has always looked unique enough that identifying one was relatively easy, it's styling set trends - not followed them. This aberration is clearly following trends in "blacked out" panels and gawdy tail lights, honestly to enthusiasts, doesn't this look like someone had one week to come up with a new nose and tail? Hence, the Silverado style bumper whatever-they-call-those-things-with-the-LED-bars-in-them.
From what I heard, the Silverado reveal was a surprising dud to GM, but hey, maybe the Camaro will be different! Not.
This really looks to me to be an easy design pilfer from the last Transformer version and I would say the approval of that look in any forum I visited was less than 25%. Whereas the previous concept version that brought us the 6th gen looks was approved by around 70%. (VERY rough numbers, but you get the point)
I find it very hard to believe GM didn't find similar results of opinions if they were looking in these corners of the internet, so what the hell GM?
As numerous members have pointed out, it is what it is and we'll have to live with it. Or NOT. I will be shopping for a Hyper blue 17 or 18, but this one is well off my list.
Sad part is, mechanically they are superb sports cars, just got to get the looks right. Again guys, the renderings really are better than the production version so kudos to you all, keep'em going! Inspire someone!

[T_B]

Originally Posted by Bosse'sBoss

More fun to drive than the Corvette Stingray Z51?

Yes, and it definitely sounded better too. Maybe that's because the Camaro came with stock Tri-Y headers and the Vette with just regular exhaust manifolds. The car definitely felt snappier and put up better numbers at the track. Definitely more fun to drive ... that's one of the main reasons i was planning on coming back. But not anymore.

[T_B]

Originally Posted by hotlap

The hood! The raised edges look menacing.

Attachment 930721

i don't see a difference outside of that extremely cheap looking vent they put on there.

[Dolby109]

Doc - I think you are taking things a step too far. The Camaro starts at $26k with the 275hp 4-cyl which likely matches the base Giulia in performance.
Naturally the Camaro is going to have a cheaper interior, but I think that interior is absolutely on par with other $26k cars.
Keep in mind the Alpha chassis is every bit as good as the Giulia's.
At $45k Level the SS 1LE is already faster on track than the Giulia Quadrifoglio, despite having a near 50hp disadvantage, so there is no way your car without the Quadrifoglia suspension and tires handles as well.
So the Giulia is a really nice driving car, but that $15-30k premium is for the interior. For a better comparison you could look at an ATS which isn't quite on par with the Giulia interior wise but still improved over the Camaro.

[GM-ACE]

Originally Posted by Doc

The 5th gen concept car was the vision of a single designer; it had nothing to do with committees, focus groups or polls. It wasn't perfect, but the moment I saw it I wanted one; it didn't have to 'grow' on me. It was a huge hit right out of the gate. Sangyup Lee, the original designer is no longer with Chevy.

What I'm seeing now is just confirmation of what I've felt has been going on ever since they did the first 'refresh'. This latest refresh to me, just illustrates the sad fact that the Chevy design department has no idea what to do with the Camaro. They have no vision of what a Camaro truly is or should be. The engineering team has delivered a spectacular performer; best high-performance sports gt America has ever produced. The body and interior however, just don't rise to the same level of brilliance.

I'm a Camaro fan. Blue Angel is still in my garage. It'll be 9 years now since I first picked it up after ordering it sight-unseen. I'd never driven one or seen one before I ordered it in May of 2009. I just knew I wanted it, and I've never regretted that decision. It pains me to see the design department floundering around with inconsistent, "I wonder if they'll like this?" attempts to modify the Camaro's looks and style.

Chevy's problem is they've priced the car into territory that has some seriously stiff competition. In September of last year, I bought a brand new Alfa Romeo Giulia Ti Lusso. It's Monte Carlo Blue with a Crema interior that's a stunning combination of Italian leather and real walnut. It came with a 280 hp turbo 4, and a chassis that's flat-out the best I've ever experienced. The car was designed by a team of Ferrari and Maserati engineers, and developed and tested in Ferrari's development center and wind tunnel. Essentially, it's a 4 door Ferrari. The price? The base model starts at about $39k, and the one I got which has just about every option you can get, retailed for about $53k. Their top performer, the Giulia Quadrifoglio has the Ferrari V6 with 505 hp, goes 190 mph and starts at about $75k.

For the same $50k, there's no comparison between the Camaro SS and the Giulia Ti. The Camaro has more power and would out-perform the Giulia on the track, but only because of horsepower. The steering and chassis of the Giulia is simply incredible. However... the body and interior of the Giulia exudes refinement, class and style. Pictures don't come close to doing it justice. When you see one in person the styling radiates beauty; a beautiful Italian sculpted masterpiece, with consistent lines and styles from front to back, and inside too. This car clearly was designed by people who had a distinct idea and understanding of what a modern Alfa Romeo should look like and be. All Giulia's, even the base model, come with a carbon fiber driveshaft standard.

Just because the Giulia was designed by Ferrari and Maserati designers, that shouldn't make that much difference. A pencil and sketchpad costs the same no matter what you're designing. Chevy's problem is a lack of vision. They just don't know what to do with the Camaro, which is sadly starting to make it look like the 5th gen was a fluke; inotherwords, they basically got lucky.

I haven't been in this forum for awhile, but I remember having discussions with Number 3 about the need for Chevy to re-invent the pony car and come out with a base Camaro that positions itself back in the sweet spot of the market base it used to be in. It's now gotten to the point where they're going to be in trouble with this car, unless they pull a pretty big rabbit out of their hat. It's getting killed in the price segment it's sitting in now. Track performance isn't enough. You can't really use that kind of performance on the street anymore, and how many people actually take their car to a track?

Keep the high performance models, but come out with a new vision of a re-invented Camaro pony car. The $40k-$80k affluent customer is not at all like the $20k-$30k customer. They are much more demanding, and they can be, because every car maker is going out of their way to cater to them. This includes style, features and looks; not just track performance.

Mark Reuss, or whoever is in charge of the Camaro... PLEASE find a designer with a vision! Forget polls and focus groups. That only leads to design that looks like something the government would do. No more toy robot crap. No more design by committee with 5 different groups in charge of 5 different parts of the car.

Compare what $50k gets you from the new Camaro SS versus the Alfa Romeo Giulia, and this is just in the style and looks department, which believe me, is seriously important to the buyer who can spend $50k:

Alfa Romeo Giulia:
Attachment 930781

Has a definite look of identity to the heritage of Alfa Romeo, yet is clearly a modern design. The cabin is spacious and has good visibility. Very comfortable to be in. A pure joy to drive.


2019 Camaro SS:
Attachment 930782

Everyone's already said enough about the front. The body side is too high, the cabin height is too squashed. Looks out of proportion.


Alfa Romeo Giulia interior:
Attachment 930783

Attachment 930784

Elegant. The display is beautifully integrated into the dash. Steering wheel has the start button on it, and is modern but retains a classic feel.


2019 Camaro:
Attachment 930785

Is this supposed to be some kind of a military look? Thick chunky steering wheel looks like something out of a truck. And the screen... really? Looks like an add-on someone bought at Auto-Zone. For $50k?


The fact that when you start it up, it runs and handles like cars twice it's price, just isn't enough to save it's image. Looks matter. People buy on the basis of how it makes them feel when they look at it. If Chevy doesn't figure this out with the 7th gen, it may be the last Camaro, only this time for real.

Don't know about the A/R aspect, but couldn't agree more with your comments. I was a technician at a Chevy dealer when the concept came out and we received the first delivery, I was hooked. It didn't have to grow on me, I was going to get one some day. Now on my second 5th gen.

[Dolby109]

Originally Posted by T_B

i don't see a difference outside of that extremely cheap looking vent they put on there.

Yeah I wasn't a big fan of that either.
I think it would have looked better if the leading edge was raised a bit, with the inside sunken down a bit more, and that plastic piece either gone or recessed and turned diagonally to funnel air up from the raidator.
Like this:

[indyz]

That red car with black jaw look is really looking good. Drool.....insurance going to be higher though lol

[Realist]

Ok I gonna say it. The restyle is growing on me. Liked the SS hood, tail lights and rear changes from the getgo. It was the flowtie placement I struggled with. The more I see the SS, the front end blends in with the rest of the car and I’m almost ok with it’s placement. Kind of liked the body color nose a few pages back too.