[Christian1LE]

Originally Posted by 5.M0NSTER

That looks like a pro driver not giving a F@&$ about HPDE rules or participants, and considers trading paint a day-in-a-life.

I don't know. It seems like if it was open passing on that straight away it was just a result of differences in speed. I don't think he did anything wrong, you probably shouldn't have prototypes that fast running with HPDE imo. HPDE loves to split classes by "experience" but HPDE experience is not the same as racing experience. At some point fast race cars shouldnt be on track with HPDE. Also begs the question if where he passed him was considered the straight or if he wasnt supposed to "open pass" until further ahead.

[Badmojo]

I'm still pissed off about this Supra driver in an Advanced group at Charlotte Motor Speedway a couple years ago. Lucky that he only got himself.



I assume:
1. He had never driven Charlotte Motor Speedway
2. Was not an Advanced Driver
3. Took a pass without a point-by
4. Did not know there was a corner. I was done with my braking and was about to start turn in.
5. Had no regard for standing water in the corner after a heavy rain.
6. Didn't even know where pit-in was to get off the track after the incident.

[MechanicalEng]

Originally Posted by Christian1LE

I don't know. It seems like if it was open passing on that straight away it was just a result of differences in speed. I don't think he did anything wrong, you probably shouldn't have prototypes that fast running with HPDE imo. HPDE loves to split classes by "experience" but HPDE experience is not the same as racing experience. At some point fast race cars shouldnt be on track with HPDE. Also begs the question if where he passed him was considered the straight or if he wasnt supposed to "open pass" until further ahead.

I agree that purpose built race cars that are so significantly faster should not be with regular street cars, that car can take the Bowl ~30mph faster than a "normal" car.
The main straight starts right after the cone, he passed me on the inside of a 100mph+ turn without a point by, this is by any measure reckless and unnecessary on a DE, we both had damage to our cars as a result. The guy got his wrist slapped by the organizers after they saw this video.

[Christian1LE]

Originally Posted by MechanicalEng

I agree that purpose built race cars that are so significantly faster should not be with regular street cars, that car can take the Bowl ~30mph faster than a "normal" car.
The main straight starts right after the cone, he passed me on the inside of a 100mph+ turn without a point by, this is by any measure reckless and unnecessary on a DE, we both had damage to our cars as a result. The guy got his wrist slapped by the organizers after they saw this video.

Attachment 1110105

yeah no doubt he's at fault then, sucks that you have to deal with the damage because that guy was trying to set a PB during an HPDE session.

[beworthy3]

The forum asked so I must deliver. Here is the video of that close call with the Miata. Coming out of the pits at NJMP Lightening. Excuse the language at the end, dirty flying in my eyes + adrenaline

Ive had a big spin there before so I know how it goes lol

[5.M0NSTER]

Originally Posted by beworthy3

The forum asked so I must deliver. Here is the video of that close call with the Miata. Coming out of the pits at NJMP Lightening. Excuse the language at the end, dirty flying in my eyes + adrenaline

Ive had a big spin there before so I know how it goes lol

Thanks for sharing!

So the Miata was coming out of the pits and lost it?

[beworthy3]

Originally Posted by 5.M0NSTER

Thanks for sharing!

So the Miata was coming out of the pits and lost it?

The Miata was actually coming out of turn 1 (a fairly swift uphill bling corner). Thats where he lost it. I was coming out of the pits which blends in on the run down to turn 2

[Dabjbr]

Unsure if going off counts as a close call but had I not gone off straight, I’m certain the end result would’ve been much worse!

[N Camarolina]

Originally Posted by Dabjbr

Unsure if going off counts as a close call but had I not gone off straight, I’m certain the end result would’ve been much worse!

Thanks for posting. I've not driven Thunderhill before, but your spin looks similar to one I had at VIR under similar conditions (my first, and definitely the scariest) and a very good learning opportunity.

Your replay doesn't show throttle and brake pedal position, but by the sound of things, you were off the throttle completely as you turned in, and looks like you had scrubbed a little speed, so the weight of the car was shifted somewhat toward the front. Speed through the corner (as you mention in your video) was not likely the cause of the spin, but rather way you had the car balanced (or lack thereof) on corner entry. In a high speed corner like this, you want to get your braking done early before turn in and apply a little bit of throttle (call it maintenance) to shift weight slightly toward the rear to keep those tires planted as you are turning in toward the Apex. Then start squeezing onto the throttle more as you pass the apex and are opening the steering wheel toward the exit. If you had everything balanced well and were simply going too fast through the corner, you would have instead experienced some understeer and had a wider turn radius than you desired.

In my incident, I had been practicing trail braking at other corners and (incorrectly) applied that technique to a 90mph corner with the same results as you. After some coaching feedback, I now use the above suggested technique, have not had any spins there since, but also am carrying the same speed.

Glad it all turned out OK for you. Nice that track has generous run-off areas.

[cdrptrks]

I have had a few HPDE instructors in the passenger seat tell me to get uncomfortably close to the rear bumper of the car in front of me in a corner while waiting for a point by. This is at least the second time I would have hit someone's car if I had been following that advice.

[ponyboy96]

Originally Posted by MechanicalEng

I agree that purpose built race cars that are so significantly faster should not be with regular street cars, that car can take the Bowl ~30mph faster than a "normal" car.
The main straight starts right after the cone, he passed me on the inside of a 100mph+ turn without a point by, this is by any measure reckless and unnecessary on a DE, we both had damage to our cars as a result. The guy got his wrist slapped by the organizers after they saw this video.

Attachment 1110105

I had a guy in a Radical do that same thing to me in my first session in DE3 at road atlanta going into turn 1. I mean my very first session after moving up. Scared the heck out of me. Luckily my blind spot detector lit up and I was checking my mirrors before I turned in. That same session a guy in a race car clipped a DE3 car after a red flag. It was the most chippy session I’ve ever had. Must of been 60 cars on track with most of them being W2W race cars.

[N Camarolina]

[QUOTE=cdrptrks;11305720]I have had a few HPDE instructors in the passenger seat tell me to get uncomfortably close to the rear bumper of the car in front of me in a corner while waiting for a point by. This is at least the second time I would have hit someone's car if I had been following that advice.

I know what you mean. To follow very close you have trust that the driver in front has the skills to keep their car under control and be aware of situations developing in front of them. At HPDEs, it can be a stretch to make that assumption, especially the ones that don't use standardized skills grading to guide run-group promotion or those that essentially let drivers rate self determine their run group.

I tend to hang back a little more to try to leave myself more options to avoid problems in front of me.

[Dabjbr]

Originally Posted by N Camarolina

Thanks for posting. I've not driven Thunderhill before, but your spin looks similar to one I had at VIR under similar conditions (my first, and definitely the scariest) and a very good learning opportunity.

Your replay doesn't show throttle and brake pedal position, but by the sound of things, you were off the throttle completely as you turned in, and looks like you had scrubbed a little speed, so the weight of the car was shifted somewhat toward the front. Speed through the corner (as you mention in your video) was not likely the cause of the spin, but rather way you had the car balanced (or lack thereof) on corner entry. In a high speed corner like this, you want to get your braking done early before turn in and apply a little bit of throttle (call it maintenance) to shift weight slightly toward the rear to keep those tires planted as you are turning in toward the Apex. Then start squeezing onto the throttle more as you pass the apex and are opening the steering wheel toward the exit. If you had everything balanced well and were simply going too fast through the corner, you would have instead experienced some understeer and had a wider turn radius than you desired.

In my incident, I had been practicing trail braking at other corners and (incorrectly) applied that technique to a 90mph corner with the same results as you. After some coaching feedback, I now use the above suggested technique, have not had any spins there since, but also am carrying the same speed.

Glad it all turned out OK for you. Nice that track has generous run-off areas.

I missed your post previously. Yes, I agree, I could have been more smooth with my inputs as there’s much going on at this turn. In addition to the things you pointed out, there’s a concrete triangle (nick named Dorito chip) that further upsets the car with a bump and change of surface impacting traction. All that plus too cold tires equaled an off.

And yes, Thunderhill is a very forgiving course which allows me to press the limits more. I definitely am more conservative at the next closest track ~ Sonoma Raceway

[Dabjbr]

Originally Posted by cdrptrks

I have had a few HPDE instructors in the passenger seat tell me to get uncomfortably close to the rear bumper of the car in front of me in a corner while waiting for a point by. This is at least the second time I would have hit someone's car if I had been following that advice.

Although I see your point, I would add that for most cases, just continually scanning ahead would greatly lessen potential contact.

Personally, I feel comfortable getting close provided I can see ahead. It’s when theres a blind corner or crest that space seems to be smarter choice.