08-16-2022, 05:09 PM | #99 | |
Drives: 2016 Camaro 1LT Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: California
Posts: 3,491
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Not sure i have any sympathy there. Some workers have to be more adaptable than others because their work deals with transitional technology. That's something you know going into it. The better ones will adapt and find new ways to make money and support themselves as those transitions occur. Most of the items you listed above are things that cost me money. Not things i enjoy spending money on. I'm not going to miss spark plugs or oil changes so I'm on board with leaving that to history. The heavy anti-ev sentiment in regards to the phasing out of muscle/pony cars is really amusing though. As if remaining ICE would have kept them around. I've heard literally no reason being attributed to EV's that wasn't already a factor and part of the manufacturer's ICE plans leading to this same result. These cars were going away no matter what barring some massive reversal of the entire public's buying habits of cars. Cars are going to be less/no fun to drive no matter what. Cars are going to be nickle and dimed for features and services no matter what. Cars are going to get more expensive in relation to all other living expenses no matter what. Cars are going to start driving themselves in more and more situations no matter what. The public is going to favor less invested money in car ownership and this is going to drive fleet ownership and services to replace personal ownership for low/mid income consumers. There's just too many financial reasons for all parties involved (personal, govt, corporate, manufacturer, safety conscious, environmental concerns, etc) to go in this direction and not enough reasons not to. edit: and what is the aftermarket these days besides aesthetic parts and snakeoil for like 90% or more of their sales? I'm sure EV's will have the opportunity for that still. So they wont be able to sell a handful of 6000 dollar supercharger/turbo setups anymore. Big deal. They probably make more money selling fiberglass/plastic stick on parts by far than what they get after R&D on something like a supercharger setup. I'm not convinced they're very scared. Plus think of all of the money they'll get selling "Monster" style cables to improve your ground loops and reduce resistance, etc that they'll be able to sell to take the place of the nonsense cold air intake money they'll be missing out on. I'm sure they'll be fine unless they're really bad at their job. Last edited by cellsafemode; 08-16-2022 at 05:23 PM. |
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08-16-2022, 05:19 PM | #100 | |
Drives: 2022 1LT RS 2.0t/6spd Join Date: Mar 2022
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 219
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GM used to sell hundreds of thousands of Cavaliers at huge losses every year just to buy enough CAFE credits to allow them to sell the volume of high profit vehicles they were selling. The idea that they will be be able to actually sell a $30k Equinox at a profit (again assuming this isn't a fake number created with tax credits, etc.) given today's EV economics is hard to believe. I believe they are losing money on the Bolts as well. If true this is a recycled marketing strategy. And how specific are they being about the content of this "$30k Equinox"? You can buy an Equinox pretty cheap today if you get a base model with few options. An equivalent electric model with a short range battery, selling for $30k, would meet the commitment w/o being something most people would actually buy. Now that is also a GM tried and true marketing strategy. |
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08-16-2022, 05:35 PM | #101 |
Drives: SS 1LE, 89 TTA, 91 GTA, 91 Formula Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: NW IN
Posts: 600
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Let's get to the heart of the matter, the government far outstepping its bounds. The 2012 EPA mandates courtesy of Obama were a joke foisted upon the too stupid public to see the writing on the walls. Sure it will save you $200 in gas a year, but the car will cost 1200 more, then 1800, then 2500 more and on and on. The EPA should have had its wings clipped a long time ago. No one bothers to read bills and the stupidity contained therein and that is a problem. There is more than one way to tax people and that is arbitralily increasing their costs for the same purpose. So once again the sleeping public has had the wool pulled over their eyes once again and the middle class pay the price.
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08-16-2022, 05:36 PM | #102 |
Drives: 2018 Camaro RS 3.6 A8 Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 171
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The main reason why they're going out of production is that heavy fines for not meeting CAFE requirements are going into effect for the 2022 model year, per previous administration's timing.
https://www.reuters.com/business/aut...in-2022-03-27/ And for everyone who doesn't believe in EV "subsidies", almost all the Insterstate, state, county, and municipal roads were paid for by the government through taxation. So please do spare us the hypocrisy of ignoring "subsidies" when it suits you personally (by driving on those roads), and opposing them when it doesn't. |
08-16-2022, 05:45 PM | #103 | |
Drives: SS 1LE, 89 TTA, 91 GTA, 91 Formula Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: NW IN
Posts: 600
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This is.... just laughable at best. Go check out the billions in out tax dollars that have gone to EV, solar and all the other hyped garbage that is going to change the world while the people espousing them gobble up beach front ocean property and fly around in private jets while telling u what to drive because of global warming. As long as the middle class pays for it, they;ll keep trying to make it happen. Again, someone who never bothered to read the 2012 EPA mandates Obama signed. It's right up there with NAFTA for ****ing us all. |
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08-16-2022, 05:53 PM | #104 | |
Drives: 2022 CT4-V Blackwing Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Florida
Posts: 2,723
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Ford is pushing for the Tesla ordering model. You build it, leave a deposit and wait for a VIN. You select your local dealership/service center for delivery. All the paperwork is done ahead of time, no haggling over price, etc. Its not perfect but the younger generation prefers this model over dealing with a guy in finance trying to sell you undercoating.
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2002 Corvette Z06 - Black - Sold
2013 Camaro SS 1LE - Black - M6 - Sold 2016 Camaro SS - Mosaic Black - A8 - Sold 2017 C7 Stingray - M7 Coupe - Sold 2019 C7 Grand Sport M7 Vert - Sold 2021 Camaro ZL1 - Black - A10 - Sold 2019 Tesla Model 3 2022 CT4-V Blackwing - M6 |
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08-16-2022, 06:14 PM | #105 | |
Sell Low, Buy High
Drives: 2022 ZLE, 2023 ZLE (Inbound) Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Varies
Posts: 542
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08-16-2022, 06:18 PM | #106 |
Drives: like an old lady Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: indiana
Posts: 2,393
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same sentiment as always
eff EVs. i think i'm going to gen v swap a c4 anyway.
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2016+ camaro: everyone’s first car
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08-16-2022, 06:22 PM | #107 | |
Retired from GM
Drives: 2017 Camaro Fifty SS Convertible Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Detroit
Posts: 5,173
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Fast forward to 2019. GM introduced C8 Corvette with a long run-up saying that the new Corvette would be priced under $60,000. The C8 launched at $59,995 before tax and license. For 2021 the base price went way up. Good luck finding a base car, no options. Expect similar treatment with Equinox EV. There will likely be a few unicorn base / no options units built at $29,995 before tax and license.
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2017 CAMARO FIFTY SS CONVERTIBLE
A8 | MRC | NPP | Nav | HUD | GM Performance CAI | Tony Mamo LT1 V2 Ported TB | Kooks 1-7/8” LT Headers | FlexFuel Tune | Thinkware Q800 Pro front and rear dash cam | Charcoal Tint for Taillights and 3rd Brakelight | Orange and Carbon Fiber Bowties | 1LE Wheels in Gunmetal Gray | Carbon Fiber Interior Overlays | Novistretch bra and mirror covers | Tow hitch for bicycle rack | |
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08-16-2022, 06:27 PM | #108 | |
Drives: 2016 Camaro 1LT Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: California
Posts: 3,491
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Quote:
There is no reality where resisting change and progress will keep you living the quality of life you remember having when the world is changing that supported that reality at that time. It's not a stance that sustains anything, it just results in decline, because everyone else is moving on. And if the US is not leading, whatever wealth generated from being on top is going to go to another country. We can't be conservative with technological progress unless we want to switch places with the kind of life you read about in developing countries. We have a wealth gap issue in the US that is contributing more to the middle class being screwed than any epa policy. Blaming the epa because the middle class is being priced out of what it means to be middle class is silly. The richest 1% in the US gained 6.5 trillion (gained) last year. That's an increase in their wealth that could pay every single citizen in this country like 20k usd. Would you be doing significantly better with an extra 20k post-tax income? But lets attack a policy that is trying to get rid of parasitic costs to the welfare of the public instead of what is actually causing the source of why you feel poorer now than you used to be. The only wool being put over the eyes of the middle class is that these pro-social efforts that are dragging corporations that only care about short term profit into practices that benefit the public in the long term are what's wrong and not the ever widening disparity between the ultra rich and everyone else. |
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08-16-2022, 06:39 PM | #109 |
Drives: 2023/2SS/1LE/RadiantRed/A10 Join Date: Jul 2022
Location: Great Lakes
Posts: 307
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Ev prices will drop after the infrastructure is in place and all debts have been paid. It’s a lot simpler than people are making it out to be. And if a stupid Plaid can beat a zl1 then I can not wait to see what an ev zl1 will do ooooh baby!
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08-16-2022, 06:46 PM | #110 | |
Drives: 2016 Camaro 1LT Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: California
Posts: 3,491
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Unfortunately, driving tests would not be able to weed out the dumbest drivers that would find themselves owning such a vehicle and it would ruin the fun for everyone else. There's going to have to be an acceleration cap for the cars most people end up being able to own, cuz i doubt they'll make the driving test harder. |
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08-16-2022, 06:50 PM | #111 | |
Retired from GM
Drives: 2017 Camaro Fifty SS Convertible Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Detroit
Posts: 5,173
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2017 CAMARO FIFTY SS CONVERTIBLE
A8 | MRC | NPP | Nav | HUD | GM Performance CAI | Tony Mamo LT1 V2 Ported TB | Kooks 1-7/8” LT Headers | FlexFuel Tune | Thinkware Q800 Pro front and rear dash cam | Charcoal Tint for Taillights and 3rd Brakelight | Orange and Carbon Fiber Bowties | 1LE Wheels in Gunmetal Gray | Carbon Fiber Interior Overlays | Novistretch bra and mirror covers | Tow hitch for bicycle rack | |
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08-16-2022, 06:54 PM | #112 |
Drives: 2020 Camaro LT1 Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: Kansas City Metro
Posts: 541
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As of right now the order banks for new EVs like the Ford Lightning are selling out but we will see how it goes long term. This isn't a wealth issue either and it is hilarious how the anti EV crowd and pro Ev crowd think the opposing group is too small and won't make things difficult. The thing is this is not Europe and there is more than enough resistance to EVs that unlike Europe and what California wants ICE will remain especially in pickup trucks way past what they desire. I have delved long and hard from many different sources from this issue. I will say this though the V8 performance vehicle is probably numbered so get your Camaro, Challenger and Mustang now while you still can. There is actually places available like near me that will help you to keep it running for a long time.
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