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Old 06-05-2021, 12:30 PM   #29
Malbjey
 
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Originally Posted by UnknownJinX View Post
ND2 Miata(the newest ones with 181 BHP) is not much slower than a 2.0T Camaro. Do some math and you will see that the power-to-weight ratio of these two cars are getting fairly close. I drove one of my friend's ND2, and that thing has some go in the straight at lower speeds. Helps that Mazda didn't gear it for 0-60 but instead for good low-speed acceleration and fun.

The 2.0 BRZ is a bit lazy for sure, but maybe the 2.4 BRZ will change the game. The torque-dip is still there and that's a bit annoying, though.

Good catch on Miata. I didn't know the new engine was putting out those numbers!


I'd still maintain the I4 Camaro/Mustangs are better buys for performance cars. The MSRP for them is close to the MSRP for a base Miata, but realistically the Mustang/Camaro is always much cheaper due to incentives. Plus they are far more practical and will be easier to tune for more power if that's you thing.
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Old 06-05-2021, 02:39 PM   #30
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Good catch on Miata. I didn't know the new engine was putting out those numbers!


I'd still maintain the I4 Camaro/Mustangs are better buys for performance cars. The MSRP for them is close to the MSRP for a base Miata, but realistically the Mustang/Camaro is always much cheaper due to incentives. Plus they are far more practical and will be easier to tune for more power if that's you thing.
Miata's interior is a lot better than Camaro or Mustang's, though. Part of the door interior trim is painted body colour as well. It overall just looks more luxurious than the pony cars.

The two ponies would win in the practicality department for sure, but that's also why they are 50%+ heavier than a Miata.

Turbo engines are actually a bit of a cons for me. I know how easy they are to tune, but that voids the warranty and especially in Camaro 2.0T's case, the engine is factory tuned like a family car turbo - it runs out of breath at higher RPM. That's why I would really take 3.6 V6 if we are talking about non-V8 Camaro. The V6 is debatably cheaper on fuel since it only needs regular while 2.0T prefers premium. Given a sports car that's driven hard, I also don't think it can hold up as well as an NA engine in the long run. And oh, turbo engines are known for their Eco/Boost effect. Want good gas mileage? Better be driving like a grandma and never use the boost. Drive it hard and watch the gas mileage become worse than a similarly powered NA engine - gotta run it rich to prevent knock. I only know Mazda has a solution to combat this(EGR cooling), but their 2.5T isn't a performance engine, either. And turbo lag, can't forget that.
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Old 06-08-2021, 09:41 PM   #31
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Miata's interior is a lot better than Camaro or Mustang's, though. Part of the door interior trim is painted body colour as well. It overall just looks more luxurious than the pony cars.

The two ponies would win in the practicality department for sure, but that's also why they are 50%+ heavier than a Miata.

Turbo engines are actually a bit of a cons for me. I know how easy they are to tune, but that voids the warranty and especially in Camaro 2.0T's case, the engine is factory tuned like a family car turbo - it runs out of breath at higher RPM. That's why I would really take 3.6 V6 if we are talking about non-V8 Camaro. The V6 is debatably cheaper on fuel since it only needs regular while 2.0T prefers premium. Given a sports car that's driven hard, I also don't think it can hold up as well as an NA engine in the long run. And oh, turbo engines are known for their Eco/Boost effect. Want good gas mileage? Better be driving like a grandma and never use the boost. Drive it hard and watch the gas mileage become worse than a similarly powered NA engine - gotta run it rich to prevent knock. I only know Mazda has a solution to combat this(EGR cooling), but their 2.5T isn't a performance engine, either. And turbo lag, can't forget that.
Great points and they match what I went through in shopping/buying. I didn't like how most modern turbo engines just died in the upper revs. I suppose that's the tradeoff for low-end torque. I was shopping for a RWD sports car, not a muscle car, and the Miata would have been the winner if I weren't too tall for it. I'm actually glad about that since I do like having the rear seats for my kids. The 86/BRZ was super fun but felt slower than the '15 Mazda 6 I was replacing. I wanted just a bit of reaction from the car when I put my foot down.

Once I test-drove the V6 1LE I was in love. It's the perfect balance of everything for me, and I'd argue it sounds great on its own merit (though the V8 still sounds even better). A bonus is that my car was even cheaper than a base Miata, and maybe $1k more than a BRZ/86. Honestly, in that ~30k price range it's very hard to beat if you want RWD.
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Old 06-09-2021, 07:07 AM   #32
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And u want rwd
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Old 06-09-2021, 08:20 AM   #33
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And u want rwd
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Old 06-10-2021, 07:55 PM   #34
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I'd go with the T4 Camaro.


While I like the power delivery of the Ecoboost Mustang, and it does handle very well, the Camaro still feels more nimble, and I like it's styling and interior better.


For reference: Prior to getting my 2018 SS, in 2016 did get to drive a friends Ecoboost auto trans Mustang and drive it hard on some byways and highways. My experience in the T4 Camaro was a test drive in an auto trans model, so I really couldn't fling it about. I ended up buying a V6 because I wanted a nightfall gray car and that's what they had on the lot, and I couldn't afford an SS at that time. V6 Camaro was clearly the better handler IMO.
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Old 06-11-2021, 07:11 AM   #35
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I'd go with the T4 Camaro.


While I like the power delivery of the Ecoboost Mustang, and it does handle very well, the Camaro still feels more nimble, and I like it's styling and interior better.


For reference: Prior to getting my 2018 SS, in 2016 did get to drive a friends Ecoboost auto trans Mustang and drive it hard on some byways and highways. My experience in the T4 Camaro was a test drive in an auto trans model, so I really couldn't fling it about. I ended up buying a V6 because I wanted a nightfall gray car and that's what they had on the lot, and I couldn't afford an SS at that time. V6 Camaro was clearly the better handler IMO.
I will second this, I liked the V6 Camaro power delivery better also.
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Old 06-11-2021, 10:30 AM   #36
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mustang got rid of the v6 pretty sure camaro will do the same thing here soon
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Old 06-14-2021, 07:29 AM   #37
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Whatever old folks!

The T4 Camaro is much faster than almost every single pre-2000 V8 Camaro that exists in the world. The V6 is now 355 hp.

Nobody NEEDS a 455 hp street car.

The Camaro chassis and looks is nice, why can't you have it with better fuel economy and "only" 300-355 hp? The need for a V8 is based in your ego, which isn't doing you any good.

After owning my SS 1LE I love it and will never get rid of it, but it's massive overkill for street driving. I could definitely see also having an RS and making the SLE into more of a track weapon.

And Randy Pobst owns an T4 1LE, I guess his reasoning is invalid, he may not have enough experience...
at 63 i resemble an "old folk".my 6 cylinder camaro RS is just right,and i think you are right,455 horsepower will only get you in trouble in todays world.this comes from a guy with 30 years of street racing experience and plenty of V8s in the past.8 mpg is just not cool.
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Old 06-15-2021, 05:19 PM   #38
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at 63 i resemble an "old folk".my 6 cylinder camaro RS is just right,and i think you are right,455 horsepower will only get you in trouble in todays world.this comes from a guy with 30 years of street racing experience and plenty of V8s in the past.8 mpg is just not cool.
i guess everyone is different. at 71, my old man did a hci swap on his lsx 72 a body. that truck hasn't seen anything shy of 20 mpg since we pulled the boat anchor gen 1 motor.

personally, i wouldn't buy either car if a 4 cyl was my only option. id opt for a miata, brz etc.
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Old 06-16-2021, 11:40 AM   #39
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If the V6 went away I surely would try the T4. I chose to have the V6, I could have had an SS, didnít want it. I live in the suburbs of Dallas/Ft. Worth TX, on my daily drive to work I might be in 70mph traffic for about 10 minutes, most of the time its 35mph with plenty of stop lights. I have no trouble staying in the pack at 70mph and have the power to move out if I need (or want especially when Iím listening to RUSH). I love my Camaro, Iíve had more compliments on this car than any other Iíve owned and Iíve owned 4 other Camaros, a Mustang, a Firebird, a Charger (1971 R/T, 440 Magnum). Again, I could have an SS, I just donít want one.
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Old 06-21-2021, 10:23 PM   #40
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LMAO. Kinda related but I've seen a few people with the 4.0 badge on their Mustangs lol. And this guy put American Muscle on his door too.


The 4.0 is one of the biggest turds Ford ever put in a car or Mustang. Totaly opposite of the 5.0 Coyote.


Luckily it appears they were not serious hurt. I'd hate to see people like this driving a Coyote engine or other V8.


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Old Yesterday, 02:58 PM   #41
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LMAO. Kinda related but I've seen a few people with the 4.0 badge on their Mustangs lol. And this guy put American Muscle on his door too.


The 4.0 is one of the biggest turds Ford ever put in a car or Mustang. Totaly opposite of the 5.0 Coyote.


Luckily it appears they were not serious hurt. I'd hate to see people like this driving a Coyote engine or other V8.


Yeah, those 4.0 V6 made 210 BHP stock. I seriously think that my RX-8 is faster than that(lighter and actually more power).

And if you think this is bad, I have seen a V6 Mustang pretending to be a Shelby on Craigslist once around here.

And maybe the car is modded and has more power?

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Old Yesterday, 07:44 PM   #42
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Yeah, those 4.0 V6 made 210 BHP stock. I seriously think that my RX-8 is faster than that(lighter and actually more power).

And if you think this is bad, I have seen a V6 Mustang pretending to be a Shelby on Craigslist once around here.

And maybe the car is modded and has more power?

Sent from my MHA-L29 using Tapatalk

I see lot of poser Mustangs. The S197 people would install the large GT fog lights on the front of the v6 ones or replace the smaller ones with the large ones.


Why does the Mustang crowd attract so many posers?
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