[ember1205]

Hi, all.

I'm trying to do a bit of a "research project" and could potentially use your help.

I have a 2020 SS with the standard exhaust and I want to swap it out to something else. While there are a lot of videos and such out on YT, they pretty much all lack at least one of the following two things:

- They are not actual tests with data being gathered empirically and in a reproduce-able manner.
- They don't focus on both external AND internal sound level comparisons.

Exhaust vendors will sometimes product videos that compare their own exhausts to each other, but these also have no sound LEVEL data in them. To me, there are three important aspects to an exhaust: How loud it is outside and inside the car, whether there is drone or not, and how it actually sounds.

In a nutshell, I would like to record a number of different things (cold start, idle, revs at specific RPM's, driving at certain speeds, etc.) about all of the different exhausts I can gather together to A) aid me in deciding which direction I want to go in swapping out my exhaust and B) help everyone else looking for actual measurable data points like this.

If you own a Gen 6 Camaro and live in CT (just because of proximity to me) and would be able to offer a car to be recorded, let me know. I am also sometimes in the Western MA area and that could work as well when I'm in that area. I expect that this is going to take some time because there are a variety of different exhaust vendors and types out there.

I would be happy to have anyone out there help out by recording their own content and sharing it with me to put it all together (we would all need to be able to use the same recording and measuring equipment to get consistent data).

If this stays a local/regional endeavor, I want to focus on the LT1/1SS/2SS trims because that's where mine falls. If we go national, then all cars are viable candidates to be included (although 1LT/2LT, LT1/1SS/2SS, and ZL1 would likely all be in distinct groups).

Since a national effort could make for a LOT of different combinations of things, I'd ask that there be no additional engine or exhaust mods other than the swapped exhaust itself (this includes no "tune" to the motor). Let me know the following info:

- Trim Level
- Coupe or Convertible
- Aftermarket Exhaust Brand and Model
- Axle Back or Cat Back
- Resonated or non (for cat back only)
- Whether you retained NPP, did not retain NPP, or don't have NPP
- Whether you have cutouts
- Any additional mods on the car's engine or exhaust (hopefully none)

[Zaqwert6]

Borla has all those with a DB meter on their site.

[ember1205]

Originally Posted by Zaqwert6

Borla has all those with a DB meter on their site.

Where? I've never seen spec's on any of the vendor's sites. And, unless they provide specific details about the equipment used to take measurements, distance and orientation (exact) from the tips, etc. then nothing from one vendor can be matched up against that from another vendor.

It takes 10 feet of distance (in a straight line) to make a difference of 3dB of sound pressure. Subtle differences in orientation of the sound meter will throw the numbers off as well. And no two manufacturers will do it the same because there's no standard for taking these measurements. This is why I was reaching out in the hopes of members wanting to put this together ourselves and do what the vendors don't / won't do so that we can all benefit.

[Zaqwert6]

Originally Posted by ember1205

Where? I've never seen spec's on any of the vendor's sites. And, unless they provide specific details about the equipment used to take measurements, distance and orientation (exact) from the tips, etc. then nothing from one vendor can be matched up against that from another vendor.

It takes 10 feet of distance (in a straight line) to make a difference of 3dB of sound pressure. Subtle differences in orientation of the sound meter will throw the numbers off as well. And no two manufacturers will do it the same because there's no standard for taking these measurements. This is why I was reaching out in the hopes of members wanting to put this together ourselves and do what the vendors don't / won't do so that we can all benefit.

I would have to look in order to be able to tell you. But they are there, because that's how I picked my exhaust. They had Db meters inside and outside of the car standing still rolling excetera.

With all due respect, you're not going to be able to do it either. Unless you get one car and swap out all the exhaust options on it. In order to get a dozen plus cars with all the same amount of mods miles configurations Etc and all those different exhaust, virtually impossible.

[ember1205]

Originally Posted by Zaqwert6

I would have to look in order to be able to tell you. But they are there, because that's how I picked my exhaust. They had Db meters inside and outside of the car standing still rolling excetera.

With all due respect, you're not going to be able to do it either. Unless you get one car and swap out all the exhaust options on it. In order to get a dozen plus cars with all the same amount of mods miles configurations Etc and all those different exhaust, virtually impossible.

I agree that trying to coordinate all of the mods would be virtually impossible. That's why my focus is on cars with ONLY the exhaust having been changed. No tune, no headers, etc. If everyone with a LT1/1SS/2SS has a car that's otherwise stock, we're working with the same baseline and the only difference would be the exhaust itself.

[Zaqwert6]

Originally Posted by ember1205

I agree that trying to coordinate all of the mods would be virtually impossible. That's why my focus is on cars with ONLY the exhaust having been changed. No tune, no headers, etc. If everyone with a LT1/1SS/2SS has a car that's otherwise stock, we're working with the same baseline and the only difference would be the exhaust itself.

Oh I know. Good luck :-)

Plus if you wanna have owners submit their own clip, then you're going to have to specify microphone brand, position and every other spec right down to the recording parameters and submission type.

I'm a musician and an engineer, so I can tell you of the futility of that. :-) but again like I said, good luck. I will participate, but my car is not a hundred percent Stock.

[ember1205]

Originally Posted by Zaqwert6

Oh I know. Good luck :-)

Plus if you wanna have owners submit their own clip, then you're going to have to specify microphone brand, position and every other spec right down to the recording parameters and submission type.

I'm a musician and an engineer, so I can tell you of the futility of that. :-) but again like I said, good luck. I will participate, but my car is not a hundred percent Stock.

Yes, the recording equipment has to be at least significantly similar. My thinking is that every owner will either own or know someone that owns an iPhone that's relatively new. It may be possible to standardize on one or two models so that the results will be at least very similar. As soon as this gets opened up to using multiple pieces of equipment, the variables will be hard to control but it can at least be reasonably "contained."

BTW... I am also a musician (not professionally) and understand that sound has all kinds of variables that influence it.

My goal would be to produce two key pieces of data for each exhaust:

- Its sound at cold start, certain revs, and during deceleration
- Its sound LEVEL at cold start, idle, certain revs, during deceleration, and from within the car while being driven at certain speeds (30, 50, and 65 maybe)

While certainly not perfect, an iPhone or Android phone with a dB app could at least gather numbers that I'll have to figure out a way to normalize after the fact.

[L8Apex]

Zaq is right, Borla has the best info your going to get without spending a lifetime and a small fortune. Youtube videos do not sound much at all like they do in real life. Cold starts are loud in these cars with aftermarket exhaust, just a fact. I have the Borla S-Type and LOVE it, sounds amazing, not loud at all after the cold start calms down, really no louder than stock until you put your foot in it.

[ember1205]

Originally Posted by L8Apex

Zaq is right, Borla has the best info your going to get without spending a lifetime and a small fortune. Youtube videos do not sound much at all like they do in real life. Cold starts are loud in these cars with aftermarket exhaust, just a fact. I have the Borla S-Type and LOVE it, sounds amazing, not loud at all after the cold start calms down, really no louder than stock until you put your foot in it.

Where is the empirical data? I haven't been able to find it. And what about being able to compare measured values against stock?

Also, Borla is one of only a couple of vendors that I have come across that seems to have a NPP-compatible system and I'd like to know how THAT system compares to the others. And since none of the other vendors appears to provide any measured data, there's no way to compare one to another.

I, personally, need to have an exhaust that is either on par with the non-NPP system at cold start for volume, or would be only marginally louder. If that means I swap to a factory NPP exhaust and wire my own controllers and switch, then that's fine. I am in the minority that is looking for a quality SOUND and not just LOUD.

[closs2sx]

Put the corsa sport on it and be done
If that’s not loud enough do their x pipe that eliminates the secondary cats and if that’s not loud enough do headers
If you want your more then welcome to come check out my zl1 1le with corsa sport and the x pipe with secondary cat delete no drone great sound although a little quiet for me but that’s because all my other cars have headers so that’s next along with a 2650r once I get the ss 1le done.

[LT4Greg]

I agree on the Corsa Sport exhaust. It seems to me you are reaching for the sky with your research ember and I wish you good luck!��

[ember1205]

Originally Posted by closs2sx

Put the corsa sport on it and be done
If that’s not loud enough do their x pipe that eliminates the secondary cats and if that’s not loud enough do headers
If you want your more then welcome to come check out my zl1 1le with corsa sport and the x pipe with secondary cat delete no drone great sound although a little quiet for me but that’s because all my other cars have headers so that’s next along with a 2650r once I get the ss 1le done.

I'm not going for loud.

[Abubaca]

I say this respectfully, but I think you're overthinking it. Everyone asks the questions you are asking. Through YT vids and maybe a few local cars, you put together a general picture of sound quality and volume, drone, etc. etc. and most will tell you they're happy with their choice, even though many times it's a system never actually heard in person before buying. You said you're a musician right? Well a spreadsheet won't write a classic masterpiece. It takes heart and soul, -emotion! ...and in it's own way, an exhaust is just that. It evokes an emotional response. It's not data from a spreadsheet. Picking an exhaust for your car is a time honored tradition done since the early days of hot rodding. I don't know that it's supposed to be a science really.



Still....I mean no disrespect. I support the endeavor if you proceed. I just think most don't need quite this level of "data" to make a choice. Best of luck to you, and if I'm able, I'll measure my AWE system for the sake of science!!!

[ember1205]

Originally Posted by Abubaca

I say this respectfully, but I think you're overthinking it. Everyone asks the questions you are asking. Through YT vids and maybe a few local cars, you put together a general picture of sound quality and volume, drone, etc. etc. and most will tell you they're happy with their choice, even though many times it's a system never actually heard in person before buying. You said you're a musician right? Well a spreadsheet won't write a classic masterpiece. It takes heart and soul, -emotion! ...and in it's own way, an exhaust is just that. It evokes an emotional response. It's not data from a spreadsheet. Picking an exhaust for your car is a time honored tradition done since the early days of hot rodding. I don't know that it's supposed to be a science really.



Still....I mean no disrespect. I support the endeavor if you proceed. I just think most don't need quite this level of "data" to make a choice. Best of luck to you, and if I'm able, I'll measure my AWE system for the sake of science!!!

I appreciate you chiming in.

I wholeheartedly agree that a spreadsheet will never translate to something that evokes emotion. While a spreadsheet would be part of this, that's not the part I expect to be what draws someone in.

The first thing that people will fall in love with is the sound itself. The rumble, sputter, "braaaap" noise that is in the pattern that they love. Keeping with thinking in terms of being a musician, it's like hearing a new song on the radio and loving it immediately.

I've heard some exhausts in YT videos that I don't care for overall, and I have heard others that seem appealing. Then you get to the part where everyone is raving about how "loud" that particular exhaust is and that becomes a sticking point for me. How loud is loud? That's like asking how wet is wet or how red is red?

For pure sound, there are a couple of AWE systems that are appealing. But, AWE does (IMHO) a very poor job of advertising the volume levels of the exhausts because they use a "made-up" scale of 1 to 6 and place the stock exhaust at about 1.5 on that scale. What's worse is that the Axle Back Touring (the only option for me with a convertible - the Track Edition will be way too loud) is rated a 3.5 on that scale. What does that mean? Is it 1dB louder than stock? 10? 30? Back to "how loud is loud"?

For me, I would love to be able to quickly narrow down my choices by ones that sound how I want them to sound and then to be able make the "perfect choice" based on actual volume level. It's two specific things combined together to get what I want, and there doesn't exist a place to get that second variable defined anywhere right now.

Borla, AWE, Corsa, GM, MagnaFlow, Flowmaster, Hearthrob, MBRP, RPI Designs, Stainless Works, and I don't even know how many other brands (let alone specific models from each brand)!

I love the cold start sound of my base exhaust and the NPP one sounds good on videos as well. If I could get something that had a similar volume level AND sound for Cold Start (even if I have to wire up NPP valves and build a control circuit to obtain a muted volume level) but would allow me to open -a little- while driving and maybe bark slightly under heavy acceleration off of the line (I don't necessarily want that while speeding up to merge onto a highway or when trying to pass - draws way too much attention that I'm not looking for).

This is what I'm trying to learn for myself, and if I happen to help some others along the way... even better!

Let me know which AWE you have and I'll count you in. I think tomorrow I'll take some time to start building out that spreadsheet to track who's able to help and what the measurements are that they can pull together. It will take some time, but for me it would be worth the wait.