[URBAN LEGEND]

Facts are facts. Piece meal your facts from different sources and select your winner.
SMH.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by URBAN LEGEND

Facts are facts. Piece meal your facts from different sources and select your winner.
SMH.

Huh?

[13vertss]

One tell tale of the gt500 is the time lost each lap. They did 3 hot laps and the fastest was the 1st lap. Lost .8 on sec lap, then another.2 on 3rd lap. So it lost a full sec after 1st lap. The gt3 only lost .1 total after 3 laps. So the weight of the car will hold it back once laps get added. So for one lap, it can put up a fast lap, it just can’t sustain it.

[ZRacerLE]

Originally Posted by 13vertss

One tell tale of the gt500 is the time lost each lap. They did 3 hot laps and the fastest was the 1st lap. Lost .8 on sec lap, then another.2 on 3rd lap. So it lost a full sec after 1st lap. The gt3 only lost .1 total after 3 laps. So the weight of the car will hold it back once laps get added. So for one lap, it can put up a fast lap, it just can’t sustain it.

Interesting...

[Checkmate1]

Originally Posted by 13vertss

One tell tale of the gt500 is the time lost each lap. They did 3 hot laps and the fastest was the 1st lap. Lost .8 on sec lap, then another.2 on 3rd lap. So it lost a full sec after 1st lap. The gt3 only lost .1 total after 3 laps. So the weight of the car will hold it back once laps get added. So for one lap, it can put up a fast lap, it just can’t sustain it.

Just in case anyone was wondering where this information came from, please watch this video -



Among the much information from this video, I learned Car and Driver's tests are the most accurate in the business.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by 13vertss

One tell tale of the gt500 is the time lost each lap. They did 3 hot laps and the fastest was the 1st lap. Lost .8 on sec lap, then another.2 on 3rd lap. So it lost a full sec after 1st lap. The gt3 only lost .1 total after 3 laps. So the weight of the car will hold it back once laps get added. So for one lap, it can put up a fast lap, it just can’t sustain it.

This is where development comes in. A well developed car won't have these types of issues. Not to this extent. Also this is why I say the GT500 is simply a car that can do well on certain tracks as opposed to being a track car. It is basically a GT with a PP2-ish suspension, and a blower thrown on top...with some additional cooling. Pushing a car that heavy around a track for extended periods is going to eventually cause a loss of performance.

Also, this is where statements I made about conditions affecting the GT500 come in. Despite the Mustang guy's most severe protests, the 500 loses a full second after 3 laps while the GT3 loses 1 tenth of a second. This is a significant difference. And it shows just how much more so the 500 (and Mustangs in general) are affected by conditions.

And this is why I asked if Ford really put 6 years of development into this car or if it was just gone for 6 years and they spent maybe just a small portion of that time developing it.

[URBAN LEGEND]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Huh?

Huh?

[ZRacerLE]

Originally Posted by URBAN LEGEND

Huh?

Do what??

[unavailablezl1]

Originally Posted by Rayvan

Perhaps for a few laps. But only until that ultra tiny 16 gallon gas tank rears it's ugly head. WTF, Ford!

A true deal breaker, and it would bring back bad memories of the teeny 16 gal. tank that was in my '70 GTO. Every 160 miles, I was filling the bastard up again, and I could run that Rochester Quadrajeted thing right down to empty. No way one can use all 16 gallons in a modern Fuel Injected car. Fun car, but the tiny tank SUCKED!

Ford was trying to save weight with the tiny tank with all fluids full. They knew they were making a 4225 lb car.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by URBAN LEGEND

Facts are facts. Piece meal your facts from different sources and select your winner.
SMH.

Dissecting this source you can see why the ZL1 1LE was the better car. Not for subjective reasons either.

Below I bullet point the positive comments made about each car.

ZL1 1LE

• GT500's as-tested price of $94,665 is nearly $19,000 more than the Camaro
  
• Manual-transmission fans have an easy choice as the Chevy offers a standard six-speed manual.
  
• 200 pounds less mass
  
• with a weight distribution closer to 50/50
  
• beats the GT500 to 60 mph by .2 second, 3.4 seconds versus 3.6
  
• the Camaro averaged a fuel economy of just 14 mpg, a single mile per gallon ahead of the Mustang
  
• Its range, however, is far superior to the Shelby's. The Mustang's fuel tank is only 16 gallons,
  
• Camaro also outgripped and outstopped the Mustang, with a 1.17-g skidpad performance
  
• and stops from 70 mph in 137 feet
  
• and from 100 mph in 268 feet.
  
• The ZL1 is more stable, and it puts its power down better
  
• a more sophisticated traction-control system,
  
• and an excellent electronic limited-slip differential
  
• Camaro is easier to drive quickly. The fun is more accessible and therefore more easily enjoyed.
  
• the Mustang's steering is numb compared to the Camaro's, and its chassis isn't as sorted.
  
• Camaro's Recaro seats are even more comfortable
  
• ZL1 was also packed with features not found on our Mustang, including navigation, heated and cooled seats, a heated steering wheel, a back seat, power seats, and wireless phone charging.
  
• the winner is the Camaro. Its biggest advantage is that it's simply a better value.
  
• but the more affordable ZL1 1LE manages to match or surpass the Shelby's performance while offering a much longer list of features.

GT500 CFTP

• 5.2-liter supercharged double-overhead-cam 32-valve V-8 not only revs to 7500 rpm, it produces 760 horsepower at 7300 rpm
  
• The Shelby's engine is significantly louder than the Camaro's,
  
• outruns the Camaro to 100 mph by .3 second,
  
• and by 150 mph the gap is stretched to more than 4.0 seconds.
  
• Mustang's 11.4-second run at 132 mph just besting the Camaro's time of 11.5 seconds at 124 mph
  
• On the street, we prefer the Shelby's brake feel and firm pedal action,
  
• and the response and precision of its dual-clutch transmission nearly rivals Porsche's PDK.
  
• The Mustang's suspension is al dente, while the Camaro's is uncooked.
  
• digital gauge cluster also clashes with the cars born-from-the-1960s sensibility, the graphics are appealing and informative
  
• Mustang's interior looks, feels, and functions better than the Camaro's
  
• attention to detail and thoughtful design are also found under the Shelby's hood. With a magnesium strut tower brace, carbon-fiber composite panels, and a menacing cobra emblem atop its supercharger, its engine compartment

[unavailablezl1]

Originally Posted by L78toLT1

Dude, stock to stock, the GT500 will kick the ZL1's butt in a straight line regardless of the temperature

I would like to see them race the Texas Mile and see if either runs out of steam. The ZL1 gets to 176 mph all day long with rookies. The GT500's max is 180.

https://youtu.be/tBQIRbZ-sDs

[unavailablezl1]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

This is where development comes in. A well developed car won't have these types of issues. Not to this extent. Also this is why I say the GT500 is simply a car that can do well on certain tracks as opposed to being a track car. It is basically a GT with a PP2-ish suspension, and a blower thrown on top...with some additional cooling. Pushing a car that heavy around a track for extended periods is going to eventually cause a loss of performance.

Also, this is where statements I made about conditions affecting the GT500 come in. Despite the Mustang guy's most severe protests, the 500 loses a full second after 3 laps while the GT3 loses 1 tenth of a second. This is a significant difference. And it shows just how much more so the 500 (and Mustangs in general) are affected by conditions.

And this is why I asked if Ford really put 6 years of development into this car or if it was just gone for 6 years and they spent maybe just a small portion of that time developing it.

I think some of the postponement was Ford was waiting the HP output of the ZR1 755hp monster. Plus, Ford spent so much time on the Mach-E instead of the GT500.

[KingLT1]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

This is an argument I made some time ago. Back in the 90s the GT was a high 14 to mid 15 sec car depending on which one you bought. The Z28 and Z28 SS were high 13s. If you wanted to bang heads against the Zs you had to spring extra cash for the Cobra which was super expensive. Even then the Zs were outrunning them. In the 2000s the trend continued. In fact it got even worse. There were versions of the 350Z and even the damn Honda Accord that, if optioned appropriately, were faster than GTs. So you had to spring for the Cobra and Mach 1s. And now yet again we are right back where we were. Anybody can go to a Chevy dealership and buy a reasonably priced ZL1 brand new and get it for low $60K. And it will come with a shit ton of options as standard. And the GT500 is even more expensive. In fact the gap in price is like 2-3 times as much as it was back then. So how is this Mustang THIS expensive?

One of my buddies told me the site is shut down right now. They claim it is for maintenance or something. LOL!! I do not go over there but I heard lots of stuff was going down and it was getting crazy.

IF it is on a prepped track and IF several other conditions are met. On the streets or on track with less prep and in less than ideal conditions I don't think the GT00 will do as well. It would still catch up but it would be past 120 MPH. And of course, only up to 180 MPH. After that it isn't a race anymore...

Imo The ZL1 will be more traction limited then a GT500 on unprepped surfaces. It has a small PD supercharger on a bigger engine. The LT4 peak torque is in the 3k rpm range. The GT500 should have less traction issues if anything. Much bigger supercharger on a smaller engine that makes peak torque around 4500rpm. LT4 makes quite a bit more torque in the 2-4k rpm range. The 2650 is a bit softer then the little 1.7 on the hit.

[joe944]

It's easier to launch the ZL1 without bogging due to the powerband.

With the GT500 it's a VERY fine line between too much power and overwhelming the tires and not enough and bogging the engine on launch.