More thoughts about M6 bog...

Johnjan · 03-15-2019, 02:44 PM

Has anyone tried one of these?

https://www.jmschip.com/pedalmax/

Or this, which is similar in concept but appears to have some adjustability?

https://www.sprintboosterusa.com/product/sbch0073s-sprint-booster-select-v3/

Assuming that it is a calibration issue, which I think it is. Who wants to be the Guinea pig?

SteveV · 03-15-2019, 02:56 PM

What is this bog that you speak of? Never seen it..

FringBirdAloha · 03-15-2019, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnjan

Has anyone tried one of these?

https://www.jmschip.com/pedalmax/

Or this, which is similar in concept but appears to have some adjustability?

https://www.sprintboosterusa.com/product/sbch0073s-sprint-booster-select-v3/

Assuming that it is a calibration issue, which I think it is. Who wants to be the Guinea pig?

It may be a calibration thing, but it’s definitely intentional. The M6 can’t handle as much off the line torque as the A10 with a torque converter, so the computer quickly reacts to save it from detonation. Maybe Chevy will build a better M6 for the next gen Camaro, but judging how DCT seems to be in Camaro’s future... probably won’t happen.

rlarsen462 · 03-15-2019, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FringBirdAloha

It may be a calibration thing, but it’s definitely intentional. The M6 can’t handle as much off the line torque as the A10 with a torque converter, so the computer quickly reacts to save it from detonation. Maybe Chevy will build a better M6 for the next gen Camaro, but judging how DCT seems to be in Camaro’s future... probably won’t happen.

Have people been blowing up the M6? I don't know that I've seen evidence of many failures but granted I haven't been looking that hard either.

RealG · 03-15-2019, 03:25 PM

The problem is manufactures keep developing the motor but there is no development with the manual transmission. Yes the automatics have amazing torque capacity and power handling characteristics so will the new dual clutch stuff but the traditional six speed manual transmission that they’ve been using for years is not up to the task of this big new modern power and traction.

SHE'Z 18 · 03-16-2019, 09:04 PM

This looks very intriguing. Almost seems like the perfect answer. Anyone have a reason "not" to buy and install this?

Liquidstone · 03-18-2019, 10:55 AM

https://youtu.be/kkGAFw2v8IM

Similar product, same idea. Seems worth it.
Anybody have this installed?

SHE'Z 18 · 03-18-2019, 11:36 AM

L

L.. I was actually watching that video when I saw your post.. I'm sold on this and plan to get it.. Definitely looking forward to installing it. Even if she doesn't have the same lag/bog that others are experiencing, this should only improve the throttle response and giddy-up... I realize it won't affect HP or speed. But, for the thrill, performance and safety factors, I'm sold.

SteveV · 03-18-2019, 11:55 AM

All kidding aside about the bog, I don't think Chevy "makes" the M6 in these. From what I understand, it is made by Tremec.

According to a few websites I just looked at, it is built to withstand up to 700lb/ft of torque. So, I see where you guys are concerned. It can handle a stock motor, but if you take it up to 800lb/ft, it could break things...

Liquidstone · 03-18-2019, 12:02 PM

Quote:

LL.. I was actually watching that video when I saw your post.. I'm sold on this and plan to get it.. Definitely looking forward to installing it. Even if she doesn't have the same lag/bog that others are experiencing, this should only improve the throttle response and giddy-up... I realize it won't affect HP or speed. But, for the thrill, performance and safety factors, I'm sold.

Lol ya its intriguing to say the least. I can see it helping the 60ft times. Good chance I'll buy it

Can'tHave2MuchHP · 03-18-2019, 05:10 PM

I am no professional tuner, but I'm 99.9% sure that this won't help performance one iota. It may FEEL more responsive, less bog prone, and easier to not stall. But the computers in this car are way too smart to let a little accelerated throttle ramp get around it's limitations. That's all that these throttle controllers do; in essence, multiply the throttle input to make the ECU think the throttle is being opened quicker. However, the ECU will still manage the throttle as it sees necessary to keep the stock torque parameters to protect the drivetrain. So yeah, it may open to 40% throttle faster under WOT in first gear, but it's still 40% throttle...

SJFGTO · 03-18-2019, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Can'tHave2MuchHP

I am no professional tuner, but I'm 99.9% sure that this won't help performance one iota. It may FEEL more responsive, less bog prone, and easier to not stall. But the computers in this car are way too smart to let a little accelerated throttle ramp get around it's limitations. That's all that these throttle controllers do; in essence, multiply the throttle input to make the ECU think the throttle is being opened quicker. However, the ECU will still manage the throttle as it sees necessary to keep the stock torque parameters to protect the drivetrain. So yeah, it may open to 40% throttle faster under WOT in first gear, but it's still 40% throttle...

I think you are absolutely right. For these exact reasons I do not believe there would be any tangible performance increase.

BMWM.D. · 03-18-2019, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Can'tHave2MuchHP

I am no professional tuner, but I'm 99.9% sure that this won't help performance one iota. It may FEEL more responsive, less bog prone, and easier to not stall. But the computers in this car are way too smart to let a little accelerated throttle ramp get around it's limitations. That's all that these throttle controllers do; in essence, multiply the throttle input to make the ECU think the throttle is being opened quicker. However, the ECU will still manage the throttle as it sees necessary to keep the stock torque parameters to protect the drivetrain. So yeah, it may open to 40% throttle faster under WOT in first gear, but it's still 40% throttle...

I’d say that’s spot on. All these things do is change how the ECU sees your input from the accelerator pedal. All the torque limits and controls are still in place. This is the same thing the ‘sport’ button did on the E46 M3, Z8, and others nearly 20 years ago now. Makes the throttle feel snappier, but that’s really it.

I’m just an amateur self tuner, but you should be able to do the same by tweaking the driver demand table. That’s what controls requested torque vs throttle pedal position. I’ve never felt a need to mess with the part throttle settings though, as I don’t have any issues with the feel. Especially in Sport mode, where it’s already opening quicker in relation to pedal travel.

SHE'Z 18 · 03-18-2019, 07:31 PM

I'm definitely not a professional tuner either. However, for the limited amount of $ and effort needed to install a throttle controller, I think it you'd absolutely get a "result" that fits the bill. From everything that I've seen and read, its clear that this device "will not" increase HP or torque. However, it does appear to get the most out of the HP at a much quicker rate than the stock set-up. The other thing is that it does "not" interfere with the tune, which I think we all would agree is by far the best option. I just don't want to give a dealership any reason whatsoever to tell me "no" to any warranty claims / issues. Perhaps when she'z beyond the warranty, I'll reconsider that plan.

On that note, are there any (other) known fixes for "bog" that would not void warranty? I'd love to have options..

Thanks guys..

03-15-2019, 02:44 PM	#1
Johnjan Drives: 2018 Camaro ZL1 Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Dripping Springs, TX Posts: 25	More thoughts about M6 bog... Has anyone tried one of these? https://www.jmschip.com/pedalmax/ Or this, which is similar in concept but appears to have some adjustability? https://www.sprintboosterusa.com/product/sbch0073s-sprint-booster-select-v3/ Assuming that it is a calibration issue, which I think it is. Who wants to be the Guinea pig?

03-15-2019, 02:56 PM	#2
SteveV Drives: 2018 ZL1 Camaro 6M Red Hot Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Cary, NC Posts: 1,137 View My Garage	What is this bog that you speak of? Never seen it.. __________________ People are a lot like slinky's: not very helpful most of the time, but they bring a smile to your face when pushed down the stairs...

03-18-2019, 11:55 AM	#9
SteveV Drives: 2018 ZL1 Camaro 6M Red Hot Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Cary, NC Posts: 1,137 View My Garage	All kidding aside about the bog, I don't think Chevy "makes" the M6 in these. From what I understand, it is made by Tremec. According to a few websites I just looked at, it is built to withstand up to 700lb/ft of torque. So, I see where you guys are concerned. It can handle a stock motor, but if you take it up to 800lb/ft, it could break things... __________________ People are a lot like slinky's: not very helpful most of the time, but they bring a smile to your face when pushed down the stairs...

03-15-2019, 03:25 PM	#5
RealG Drives: 2024 2SS Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: SoCal Posts: 602	The problem is manufactures keep developing the motor but there is no development with the manual transmission. Yes the automatics have amazing torque capacity and power handling characteristics so will the new dual clutch stuff but the traditional six speed manual transmission that they’ve been using for years is not up to the task of this big new modern power and traction.

03-16-2019, 09:04 PM	#6
SHE'Z 18 Drives: 18 ZL1 - M6 Join Date: Mar 2019 Location: MI Posts: 440	This looks very intriguing. Almost seems like the perfect answer. Anyone have a reason "not" to buy and install this?

03-18-2019, 10:55 AM	#7
Liquidstone Drives: 2018 ZL11LE Join Date: Feb 2019 Location: Vancouver B.C. Posts: 84 View My Garage	https://youtu.be/kkGAFw2v8IM Similar product, same idea. Seems worth it. Anybody have this installed?

03-18-2019, 11:36 AM	#8
SHE'Z 18 Drives: 18 ZL1 - M6 Join Date: Mar 2019 Location: MI Posts: 440	LL.. I was actually watching that video when I saw your post.. I'm sold on this and plan to get it.. Definitely looking forward to installing it. Even if she doesn't have the same lag/bog that others are experiencing, this should only improve the throttle response and giddy-up... I realize it won't affect HP or speed. But, for the thrill, performance and safety factors, I'm sold.

03-18-2019, 05:10 PM	#11
Can'tHave2MuchHP Drives: Fast Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: Michigan Posts: 3,696	I am no professional tuner, but I'm 99.9% sure that this won't help performance one iota. It may FEEL more responsive, less bog prone, and easier to not stall. But the computers in this car are way too smart to let a little accelerated throttle ramp get around it's limitations. That's all that these throttle controllers do; in essence, multiply the throttle input to make the ECU think the throttle is being opened quicker. However, the ECU will still manage the throttle as it sees necessary to keep the stock torque parameters to protect the drivetrain. So yeah, it may open to 40% throttle faster under WOT in first gear, but it's still 40% throttle...

03-18-2019, 07:31 PM	#14
SHE'Z 18 Drives: 18 ZL1 - M6 Join Date: Mar 2019 Location: MI Posts: 440	I'm definitely not a professional tuner either. However, for the limited amount of $ and effort needed to install a throttle controller, I think it you'd absolutely get a "result" that fits the bill. From everything that I've seen and read, its clear that this device "will not" increase HP or torque. However, it does appear to get the most out of the HP at a much quicker rate than the stock set-up. The other thing is that it does "not" interfere with the tune, which I think we all would agree is by far the best option. I just don't want to give a dealership any reason whatsoever to tell me "no" to any warranty claims / issues. Perhaps when she'z beyond the warranty, I'll reconsider that plan. On that note, are there any (other) known fixes for "bog" that would not void warranty? I'd love to have options.. Thanks guys..

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