[L8ERBRO]

Originally Posted by djfury05

So you went from $1600-1999 to almost $3000 now. Not interested. Additionally the data posted earlier by Intimidator is not impressive as under load he quoted normal temps. I could care less what the temps are cruising. Perhaps he posted incorrect data?

I was thinking the exact same thing! I even went back to previous posts where he stated the amount he intended to charge but couldn’t find them.

3k for 20 more HP isn’t an investment I personally would ever make.

[Chris V]

Originally Posted by L8ERBRO

I was thinking the exact same thing! I even went back to previous posts where he stated the amount he intended to charge but couldn’t find them.

3k for 20 more HP isn’t an investment I personally would ever make.

Depending on how it shakes out, it's not 20 more hp, but keeping a hundred or more, like most intercoolers are.

My car is basically a heavy SS once it gets too hot. My IATs were pretty good, but my oil and coolant got really hot, and it pulled power after 12-15 minutes of open track time. If this could keep me at the full power for a 20 minute session, that'd be worth the money to me.

I'm cutting a hole in the hood and adding an oil cooler to help, and we'll see how that works out.

[L8ERBRO]

Originally Posted by Chris V

Depending on how it shakes out, it's not 20 more hp, but keeping a hundred or more, like most intercoolers are.

My car is basically a heavy SS once it gets too hot. My IATs were pretty good, but my oil and coolant got really hot, and it pulled power after 12-15 minutes of open track time. If this could keep me at the full power for a 20 minute session, that'd be worth the money to me.

I'm cutting a hole in the hood and adding an oil cooler to help, and we'll see how that works out.

You’re a braver soul than me. I would need some more real world data first or at least a few back to back Dyno pulls before investing that kind of cha ching. It looks like the cooler tank is very small, so with the loss of one HX, how do you know the coolant in that little tank can even keep up with a 20 min track session?

I was ready to pull the trigger and really wanted to be impressed by this system. So far, I am not. ...at least until proven otherwise by some impressive data

Curios as to why there was nothing was posted in regards to Intimidator’s Dyno pull before chiller and after chiller.

[Chris V]

Originally Posted by L8ERBRO

You’re a braver soul than me. I would need some more real world data first or at least a few back to back Dyno pulls before investing that kind of cha ching. It looks like the cooler tank is very small, so with the loss of one HX, how do you know the coolant in that little tank can even keep up with a 20 min track session?

I was ready to pull the trigger and really wanted to be impressed by this system. So far, I am not. ...at least until proven otherwise by some impressive data

Curios as to why there was nothing was posted in regards to Intimidator’s Dyno pull before chiller and after chiller.

I'm not ready to pull the trigger either. I'd have to see how it holds up on track first. 20 minutes is a lot more than back to back 10 second runs. I'm doing 120 mph and 150 mph separately each lap on some tracks. I don't know that I'd remove any of the exchangers, unless they proved detrimental.

With ~3 gallons of water/coolant in the AWIC system, I was at 87* IAT2 over a 77* ambient. If I can get the car back together in time, I'll test it again on Tuesday to see how it holds up (waiting on some parts for the oil cooler, not-stock is not the easy button for those parts).

If I could get IAT2 down to below ambient, I'm wondering if that would help or hurt oil and coolant temps. It could counterintuitively make it worse since I'd be making even more power

[WEAPON-X]

Originally Posted by djfury05

So you went from $1600-1999 to almost $3000 now. Not interested. Additionally the data posted earlier by Intimidator is not impressive as under load he quoted normal temps. I could care less what the temps are cruising. Perhaps he posted incorrect data?

Originally Posted by L8ERBRO

I was thinking the exact same thing! I even went back to previous posts where he stated the amount he intended to charge but couldn’t find them.

3k for 20 more HP isn’t an investment I personally would ever make.

Originally Posted by Chris V

I'm not ready to pull the trigger either. I'd have to see how it holds up on track first. 20 minutes is a lot more than back to back 10 second runs. I'm doing 120 mph and 150 mph separately each lap on some tracks. I don't know that I'd remove any of the exchangers, unless they proved detrimental.

With ~3 gallons of water/coolant in the AWIC system, I was at 87* IAT2 over a 77* ambient. If I can get the car back together in time, I'll test it again on Tuesday to see how it holds up (waiting on some parts for the oil cooler, not-stock is not the easy button for those parts).

If I could get IAT2 down to below ambient, I'm wondering if that would help or hurt oil and coolant temps. It could counterintuitively make it worse since I'd be making even more power

First off, sorry for the lack of info shared this week. I needed to get the dyno graphs off of the tower but I ended up sick a couple of days and am just now crawling back into action, but Monday will be the earliest chance I'll get.

It looks like we need to take a step back here and provide some education. First off, the numbers Intimidator posted are accurate; however, it has nothing to do with what you're comparing it to. IAT2 is a worthless PID on the Gen 5 LT engines, because the timing/spark table is based on "Manifold Air Temp" [MAT], which is a calculated algorithm that is barely affected by anything, even upgraded heat exchangers. IAT2 is valuable to show you what the air temps actually are coming out of the intercooler bricks, but that is only 1 part of the equation for allowable spark resulting in power.

MAT Timing table, NOT IAT2:



As you'll see in the following logs, the IAT2s NEVER get over 120*, but as you will see the IAT spark is pulling timing, because it's based on Manifold Air Temp, not IAT2. Ask ANY gen 5 tuner how long it takes those MAT temps to come back down to even a reasonable temperature , it's a half hour or so and back to starting point is about an hour. To see those temps drop down from 140* to under 120* in just minutes is absolutely astonishing!

[WEAPON-X]

On a stock ZL1 (sans the NX lid and our no-tune intake) looking at logs you will see. With the stock pulley which is making just under 11 PSI of boost, the MAT on a hot day normally start over 130* and STAY over 130*, oh and you're pulling -3 to -4 of spark/timing at 133*.

Car starts with:
Engine coolant 178*
IAT1 99*
IAT2 109*
MAT 135*?!!!! Trust me, tuners HATE this new calculated value

By the time we get the car up to gear 7 (which is 1 to 1 on the 10 speed for accurate HP and TQ output):
Engine coolant 185*
IAT1 95*
IAT2 113*
MAT 132* - yes ECT, IAT1 and IAT2 are going up, and MAT went down?!!!

Top of gear 7:
Engine coolant 203*
IAT1 100*
IAT2 108*
MAT 139* and as you can see by this graph, you're losing -2* of timing and that is with the IAT2s just 8* over IAT1s and that MAT line continues to rise us the log stops and will soar to over 160*!
You can see there are tickles of knock [KR] as high as 2* over 5700 RPMs and we see this frequently on the long pull of a loaded dyno on a stock LT4 car.

Look below:
The RED boxed highlighted air temps are the values referenced above.
The YELLOW star shows the 2* being pulled on the STOCK calibration for IAT, yet the IAT2 value only shows 108*.
The PINK box around the Manifold Air Temp (MAT) which is what the IAT Spark Table references.
The YELLOW Bubble shows the knock aka KR on the STOCK calibration.

[WEAPON-X]

Now I want you guys to see just HOW HOT the temps get and stay!!! Here are 5 dyno pulls, all with the same combo approx 33 minutes apart start to finish, around 8-10m between each pull and while it's not a legit comparison to a car on the track with heat entering on the straights and coming out of the turns and cooling off between with the fans on blast.

Intimidator's 2.3 aka 9% Upper Pulley:
On this ZL1 looking at logs, you will see. With the 2.3 upper pulley making nearly 13 PSI of boost, the MAT on a hot day normally start over 130* and STAY over 130*, but since it's been tuned, we removed the IAT spark pull from the 133* column, so the next threshold is 154*.

Dyno Pul #1 at 2:20PM
Car starts with:
Engine coolant 126*
IAT1 82*
IAT2 84*
MAT 112*

By the time we get the car up to gear 6 (shorter pulls for tuning so it's nto as long and the car doesn't get as hot):
Engine coolant 171*
IAT1 84*
IAT2 93*
MAT 122*

Top of gear 7:
Engine coolant 174*
IAT1 91*
IAT2 91*
MAT 125* - Not bad right? Well unless you're pushing your car up to the starting line, you're not going to see this in the real world, read on

Look below:
The RED boxed highlighted air temps are the values referenced above.
The PINK box around the Manifold Air Temp (MAT) which is what the IAT Spark Table references.
The YELLOW Bubble shows the knock aka KR on the modified calibration.



----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dyno Pul #2 at 2:29PM - the car sat on the dyno with the fans on it and the entire system was heat soaked in 9 minutes shut off and the MAT was already NOT happy, despite the Engine coolant, IAT1, and IAT2 being reasonable, and remember MAT is what our power is based on.

Car starts with:
Engine coolant 180*
IAT1 88*
IAT2 106*
MAT 145* - HOT after sitting 9 min

By the time we get the car up to gear 6:
Engine coolant 171*
IAT1 88*
IAT2 106*
MAT 140*

Top of gear 6:
Engine coolant 174*
IAT1 86*
IAT2 99*
MAT 141* - pulling .2* of timing already despite the window being opened to 154* IAT spark pull

Look below:
The RED boxed highlighted air temps are the values referenced above.
The PINK box around the Manifold Air Temp (MAT) which is what the IAT Spark Table references.
The YELLOW Bubble shows the knock aka KR on the modified calibration.



-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dyno Pul #3 at 2:39PM - the car sat on the dyno with the fans on it and the entire system was even MORE heat soaked in another 10 minutes after just a NINE SECOND PULL and the MAT was pissed off now LOL, despite the Engine coolant, IAT1, and IAT2 ALL still being reasonable, and don't forget again, the MAT aka Manifold Air Temp is what our power is based on.

Car starts with:
Engine coolant 171*
IAT1 91*
IAT2 104*
MAT 171* - REALLY HOT after sitting 10 min

By the time we get the car up to gear 6:
Engine coolant 172*
IAT1 88*
IAT2 104*
MAT 152*

Top of gear 6:
Engine coolant 174*
IAT1 88*
IAT2 102*
MAT 151* and up to 157* just 14 seconds later as the car is winding down on the rollers before the log stops. Just think of how hot the system gets when you're on and off the throttle on a real world road course.

As you can see the knock is back as high as 5* with just 18* of timing on a 9% pulley! I'd love to know if you road course guys are logging KR, especially if you're modded.

Look below:
The RED boxed highlighted air temps are the values referenced above.
The PINK box around the Manifold Air Temp (MAT) which is what the IAT Spark Table references.
The YELLOW Bubble shows the knock aka KR on the modified calibration.



-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dyno Pul #4 at 2:47PM - the car sat on the dyno with the fans on it and the MAT seems to somewhat settle into this 17X* area as the previous pull was only 8 minutes previous and the temps are only a little hotter than run 3 starting out, but still a timing killer at that heat range, despite again the Engine coolant, IAT1, and IAT2 ALL still being reasonable, and don't forget again, the MAT aka Manifold Air Temp is what our power is based on.

Car starts with:
Engine coolant 181*
IAT1 95*
IAT2 104*
MAT 174* - REALLY HOT after sitting 8 min

By the time we get the car up to gear 6:
Engine coolant 172*
IAT1 88*
IAT2 104*
MAT 152*

Top of gear 6:
Engine coolant 174*
IAT1 88*
IAT2 102*
MAT 151*

Knock spike is still there at 5600 RPM at nearly 5* with just a 9% pulley with less than 19* of timing.

Look below:
The RED boxed highlighted air temps are the values referenced above.
The PINK box around the Manifold Air Temp (MAT) which is what the IAT Spark Table references.
The YELLOW Bubble shows the knock aka KR on the modified calibration.



-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dyno Pul #5 at 2:53PM - the car sat on the dyno with the fans on it and the entire system was even MORE heat soaked in just 6 minutes after just a NINE SECOND PULL and the MAT was pissed off now LOL, despite the Engine coolant, IAT1, and IAT2 ALL still being reasonable, and don't forget again, the MAT aka Manifold Air Temp is what our power is based on.
Car starts with:
Engine coolant 189*
IAT1 93*
IAT2 104*
MAT 182* - and now it is REALLY REALLY HOT after sitting less at just 6 min

By the time we get the car up to gear 6:
Engine coolant 178*
IAT1 90*
IAT2 106*
MAT 164*

Top of gear 6:
Engine coolant 183*
IAT1 90*
IAT2 100*
MAT 163* - and as you can see, the knock is aggressive again with just 13 PSI and less than 18* of timing!


Look below:
The RED boxed highlighted air temps are the values referenced above.
The PINK box around the Manifold Air Temp (MAT) which is what the IAT Spark Table references.
The YELLOW Bubble shows the knock aka KR on the modified calibration.

[WEAPON-X]

So, what you can see is the Manifold Air Temps aka MAT will actually go DOWN once it's hot on the 9% pulley, and you can clearly see the IAT2s are very close to the IAT1s the entire time and never got over 120*. But, beyond the cold pull, the MAT are just insane and every SINGLE pull beyond the first cold pull was over the first threshold for timing pulling with the stock calibration, and you can remove this, but do so, and you're seeing a lot of knock in the upper RPM band.

Next, we jumped up to the 15% pulley with headers thinking we can get a little more boost with less restriction from the cats right? Let's check it out...

Intimidator's 2.175 aka 15% Upper Pulley:
On this ZL1 looking at logs, you will see. With the 2.175 upper pulley with headers makes a peak of 13.4 PSI of boost so we gained and lost some with headers. The MAT started hot on this pull despite letting the engine cool off from some previous pulls with this combo, dialing it in. I'll skip those for this since the previous group showed the drastic jumps in Manifold Air Temps from run to run and just focus on the amazing chiller results.

Dyno Pul #1 at 2:10PM
Car starts with:
Engine coolant 167*
IAT1 97* - muggy day
IAT2 104*
MAT 140* at the start and it KEPT GOING UP

By the time we get the car up to gear 7 (gear 1 to 1 for accurate hp/tq):
Engine coolant 172*
IAT1 97*
IAT2 106*
MAT 140*

Top of gear 7:
Engine coolant 174*
IAT1 113*
IAT2 106*
MAT 151* and just 16 seconds later were up to 168*!!! - This 15% combo causes the MAT to keep heating up more and more and again this combo would knock regardless of adding more fuel and pulling some timing until it wasn't worth the upgrade.

Look below:
The RED boxed highlighted air temps are the values referenced above.
The PINK box around the Manifold Air Temp (MAT) which is what the IAT Spark Table references.
The YELLOW Bubble shows the knock aka KR on the modified calibration.



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Intimidator's 2.175 aka 15% Upper Pulley WITH THE BOOST FREEZE CHILLER:
On this ZL1 looking at logs, you will see. With the 2.175 upper pulley with headers makes a peak of 13.4 PSI of boost so we gained and lost some with headers. The MAT started hot on this pull despite letting the engine cool off from some previous pulls with this combo, dialing it in. I'll skip those for this since the previous group showed the drastic jumps in Manifold Air Temps from run to run and just focus on the amazing chiller results.

Dyno Pul #1 at 2:10PM
Car starts with:
Engine coolant 145*
IAT1 93* - muggy day
IAT2 99*
MAT 115* at the start and it KEPT GOING DOWN

By the time we get the car up to gear 7 (gear 1 to 1 for accurate hp/tq):
Engine coolant 176*
IAT1 95*
IAT2 102*
MAT 112* - LOOK AT ALL PREVIOUS RUNS, NEVER DID IT GO DOWN WHEN IT WAS UNDER 140*!

Top of gear 7:
Engine coolant 174*
IAT1 138*
IAT2 108*
MAT 124* - This was 27* colder than the previous pull with the stock heat exchangers, despite removing the side cooler for the chiller.

Look below:
The RED boxed highlighted air temps are the values referenced above.
The PINK box around the Manifold Air Temp (MAT) which is what the IAT Spark Table references.
NOTICE LESS BOOST AND 4* MORE TIMING resulting in 61 wheel HP more!



So looking at this, the stock heat exchanger system can stave off an increase in manifold air with just a 9% pulley but it will still show knock; however, a 15% pulley cannot stave off the increased manifold air temps and that is why we have the Triple X Heat Exchangers in the X800 package. Those have 150% more fluid and drastically improve the MATs as well as the recovery time. You guys pushing the car with the stock hx system are not getting the most out of your car's potential power!

This was the point where we stopped pushing the car and didn't add the ported supercharger because the setup was not happy as it was. We added the chiller setup without ANY other modifications and the results were nothing short of phenomenal:

• We were able to advance the timing 4* more gaining a great amount of HP putting down an extra 61 to the wheels!
• The boost DROPPED a pound and a half due to the cooler temps in the intercooler bricks
• The IAT2s although worthless for tuning the Gen5 LTs show the true benefit were just 102 at the start of the pull, dropped down to 100, and then ended at 108* despite the IAT1s being 133* at the end as it was sucking in hot air with the hood open. That fought off over 30* of temps as it drew the air into the supercharger, then compressed it giving off even MORE heat, and then cooled it back down to nearly 100* as it entered the cylinders.

I think the results speak for themselves

[L8ERBRO]

Originally Posted by WEAPON-X

So, what you can see is the Manifold Air Temps aka MAT will actually go DOWN once it's hot on the 9% pulley, and you can clearly see the IAT2s are very close to the IAT1s the entire time and never got over 120*. But, beyond the cold pull, the MAT are just insane and every SINGLE pull beyond the first cold pull was over the first threshold for timing pulling with the stock calibration, and you can remove this, but do so, and you're seeing a lot of knock in the upper RPM band.

Next, we jumped up to the 15% pulley with headers thinking we can get a little more boost with less restriction from the cats right? Let's check it out...

Intimidator's 2.175 aka 15% Upper Pulley:
On this ZL1 looking at logs, you will see. With the 2.175 upper pulley with headers makes a peak of 13.4 PSI of boost so we gained and lost some with headers. The MAT started hot on this pull despite letting the engine cool off from some previous pulls with this combo, dialing it in. I'll skip those for this since the previous group showed the drastic jumps in Manifold Air Temps from run to run and just focus on the amazing chiller results.

Dyno Pul #1 at 2:10PM
Car starts with:
Engine coolant 167*
IAT1 97* - muggy day
IAT2 104*
MAT 140* at the start and it KEPT GOING UP

By the time we get the car up to gear 7 (gear 1 to 1 for accurate hp/tq):
Engine coolant 172*
IAT1 97*
IAT2 106*
MAT 140*

Top of gear 7:
Engine coolant 174*
IAT1 113*
IAT2 106*
MAT 151* and just 16 seconds later were up to 168*!!! - This 15% combo causes the MAT to keep heating up more and more and again this combo would knock regardless of adding more fuel and pulling some timing until it wasn't worth the upgrade.

Look below:
The RED boxed highlighted air temps are the values referenced above.
The PINK box around the Manifold Air Temp (MAT) which is what the IAT Spark Table references.
The YELLOW Bubble shows the knock aka KR on the modified calibration.



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Intimidator's 2.175 aka 15% Upper Pulley WITH THE BOOST FREEZE CHILLER:
On this ZL1 looking at logs, you will see. With the 2.175 upper pulley with headers makes a peak of 13.4 PSI of boost so we gained and lost some with headers. The MAT started hot on this pull despite letting the engine cool off from some previous pulls with this combo, dialing it in. I'll skip those for this since the previous group showed the drastic jumps in Manifold Air Temps from run to run and just focus on the amazing chiller results.

Dyno Pul #1 at 2:10PM
Car starts with:
Engine coolant 145*
IAT1 93* - muggy day
IAT2 99*
MAT 115* at the start and it KEPT GOING DOWN

By the time we get the car up to gear 7 (gear 1 to 1 for accurate hp/tq):
Engine coolant 176*
IAT1 95*
IAT2 102*
MAT 112* - LOOK AT ALL PREVIOUS RUNS, NEVER DID IT GO DOWN WHEN IT WAS UNDER 140*!

Top of gear 7:
Engine coolant 174*
IAT1 138*
IAT2 108*
MAT 124* - This was 27* colder than the previous pull with the stock heat exchangers, despite removing the side cooler for the chiller.

Look below:
The RED boxed highlighted air temps are the values referenced above.
The PINK box around the Manifold Air Temp (MAT) which is what the IAT Spark Table references.
NOTICE LESS BOOST AND 4* MORE TIMING!



So looking at this, the stock heat exchanger system can stave off an increase in manifold air with just a 9% pulley but it will still show knock; however, a 15% pulley cannot stave off the increased manifold air temps and that is why we have the Triple X Heat Exchangers in the X800 package. Those have 150% more fluid and drastically improve the MATs as well as the recovery time. You guys pushing the car with the stock hx system are not getting the most out of your car's potential power!

This was the point where we stopped pushing the car and didn't add the ported supercharger because the setup was not happy as it was. We added the chiller setup without ANY other modifications and the results were nothing short of phenomenal:

• We were able to advance the timing 4* more gaining a great amount of HP
• The boost DROPPED a pound and a half due to the cooler temps in the intercooler bricks
• The IAT2s although worthless for tuning the Gen5 LTs show the true benefit were just 102 at the start of the pull, dropped down to 100, and then ended at 108* despite the IAT1s being 133* at the end as it was sucking in hot air with the hood open. That fought off over 30* of temps as it drew the air into the supercharger, then compressed it giving off even MORE heat, and then cooled it back down to nearly 100* as it entered the cylinders.

I think the results speak for themselves

So where’s the actual Dyno charts? Let’s see the power difference please

[DavidStrLondon]

Lots of useful information,however I believe some of us still need more...
We understand ECU pulls timing based in MAT and not IAT.
Is the pull timing map editable?I assume yes.
How is this MAT calculated?Is there a proper sensor or it is calculated based on IAT?
Regardless if IAT are lower, car should make more power even without a tune and even more with a tune.
Would also be good to see a system diagram, and a few pics of the full kit before install,just to understand a bit more about the configuration.
What happens at WOT?A/C compressor usually goes off in this condition, so system will be off on.track for a significant amount of time.
Can this be edited /configured through the ECU?
Thanks!

[WEAPON-X]

Originally Posted by DavidStrLondon

Lots of useful information,however I believe some of us still need more...
We understand ECU pulls timing based in MAT and not IAT.
Is the pull timing map editable?I assume yes.
How is this MAT calculated?Is there a proper sensor or it is calculated based on IAT?
Regardless if IAT are lower, car should make more power even without a tune and even more with a tune.
Would also be good to see a system diagram, and a few pics of the full kit before install,just to understand a bit more about the configuration.
What happens at WOT?A/C compressor usually goes off in this condition, so system will be off on.track for a significant amount of time.
Can this be edited /configured through the ECU?
Thanks!

Yes, the map is editable and that is the table I showed you first yesterday; however, as you can see in the 5 log post after the baseline, that just because it's calculated, doesn't mean it's bad, although I would like a more definable table. Regardless, you can see in that 5 log post that we did clear out the IAT reducer in the 133* temp bracket and still saw a lot of knock. The IAT2 values are very low compared to previous LS cars, so the intercoolers in these superchargers are more efficient; however, it also appears that the DI engines are more susceptible to knock at lower "IAT2"s, likely due to the compression and higher boost than the LS cars. So, widening the IAT reducer table just allowed a lot more knock, it didn't help much even at the 9% level without increased cooling.

The MAT is a combined calculation referencing ECT, IAT1, IAT2, and ambient air if I recall, but there isn't a way to tune the calculation in your favor. I have been after HPT for years for more help on this without much response.

Also, unlike the LS cars, the LT cars AC will stay on during a pull as it just destrokes the compressor so you do feel a little less output in the cabin for example, but it's still working and kicks up as soon as you let off the throttle. This destroking helps us out considerably and you can somewhat tune the AC system which is where we are now. We are going to do some fatigue tests to destroke the compressor less to see if it fails on my car, but for now, all results are as is. Even on an 875whp Whipple LT4 car, we were only seeing a 2% difference in power on a cold pull, and in hot pulls, the chiller just buried the heat soaked MATs as you can see above!

[Gunkk]

The gains won't be that huge unless the LT4 blower is significantly overspun due to the pressure drop across the coolers.

What it will do is help avoid heat soak issues in scenarios where heat soak is a problem. Cold dyno pulls isn't one of them.

[WEAPON-X]

Intimidator did post his final dyno #, but I'll have to grab the rest for comparison Monday.

Originally Posted by Intimidator

Highest was 689 when my son and I went to pick it up...over 90 degrees in Cincy....Mustang dyno, no fans at front of car either.lol

[WEAPON-X]

Originally Posted by Gunkk

The gains won't be that huge unless the LT4 blower is significantly overspun due to the pressure drop across the coolers.

What it will do is help avoid heat soak issues in scenarios where heat soak is a problem. Cold dyno pulls isn't one of them.

This is not accurate, as the stock blower is still making over 10 psi and is already a high strong supercharger by definition. If you recal, I showed yesterday the stock blower speed was pulling 2* of timing due to the heat. Later I showed with a 15% pulley we were able to advance the timing an extra 4* with the chiller as well due to more dense air and cooler temps. To draw a similarity, it's the same reason your car feels faster in cold dense air of late fall or early spring vs the dead of winter. Less heat, means more dense air, and more timing of tuned.