[mlee]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

I hear ya. Just know that the A8 in the C7 is a completely different animal than the A8 in Camaro and trucks and the A10 is a third different animal.

I was lucky enough to own the 2nd Production A10 trans and that includes Ford and Chevy. The 10L90 is the only thing that could possibly cause me to trade off my current Camaro for a 2023 ZLE.

I had a Corvette instructor with me on the NCM track and he couldn't believe how the car shifted. He originally thought it was an A8 and mentioned that the Vettes didn't shift anywhere near this trans. I really can't wait to get back in one again. Too bad the vette didn't have room for this trans.

A10 is a HUGE Pro!!

[UnknownJinX]

Originally Posted by ember1205

Lifelong habit here as well. When you truly understand what represents "normal", you can identify an anomaly. How do you truly know whether you should be concerned about your MOG or not? You need a solid baseline to compare it to. Tracking fuel use can help with that.

That is true. It's a good way to catch a problem early on.

It's also funny to see how the estimated fuel economy in my Camaro is always 10% better than the actual gas mileage.

Originally Posted by ThirdGenNut

I heard the most beautiful sound the other day. I was sitting at a red light and there sat a pristine black rx7 sitting in the turning lane. ::sad face:: I promise that guy has never been bummed about his MPG's, size or power. No matter how bad I would have stomped his ass in any situation.

If it's an FD, then yeah, I wouldn't complain, either. That car is beautiful, and it still pulls decently well stock with modern standards(5 seconds 0~60, so it would be even with a V6 Camaro today). Even in the 8, I have to partially blame myself for revving it to 9k RPM all the time for the bad gas mileage. It's just what happens when you push your car.

[ember1205]

Originally Posted by UnknownJinX

That is true. It's a good way to catch a problem early on.

It's also funny to see how the estimated fuel economy in my Camaro is always 10% better than the actual gas mileage.

EPA estimates are done on a dyno where they can mimic things like rolling resistance, but I don't believe they EVER get the level of wind resistance correct. My Silverado gets about 30% better fuel economy at 68MPH compared to 75. So, the EPA estimates aren't necessarily THAT far off.

In New England, however, there really are no flat (level) roads. And that seems to never be accounted for....

[Timbo-1LE]

Best thing, you can have a.real crap day, and starting the V8 and rising the gears never gets old!

[BrianL]

Originally Posted by Cedar

Here's the deal: He's 74, retired and he's not going to track the car. As being a former 60's GTO gear head he just wants a car to have a little fun with. He's got a wife and a dog so the back seats and the trunk won't be an issue either.
I'm sure he'll enjoy the ride.

Thank you!

If he's an old gear head looking to have one last muscle car & comparing that to his GTO, he will be astounded with todays performance cars like the Camaro. My first muscle car was a '69 428 Cobra Jet Mach One Mustang that got all of maybe 8 MPG. It was stout for its day, loud as hell after I put on headers and shorty glass packs, but very nose heavy, had really bad brakes (drums), and was really built for a quarter mile run that by today's standards would be considered slow. Didn't corner worth a damn, but those were the days of bias ply tires and chassis flex too. I likely should have killed my 20 year old self in that one looking back. I still miss the classic look and cringe when I see what they are worth today...

But my 2SS is superior in every metric. Way more power and torque across the entire power band, handles like a slot car, great brakes, wonderful manual transmission, the Alp[ha chassis is so stiff you lift one corner the entire side lifts, and maintains great gas mileage when cruising. Have him try a few test drives. I figured I had one last hot rod in me in my retirement, and will drive the manual until my knees no longer cooperate.

Cheers

[Cedar]

Originally Posted by BrianL

If he's an old gear head looking to have one last muscle car & comparing that to his GTO, he will be astounded with todays performance cars like the Camaro. My first muscle car was a '69 428 Cobra Jet Mach One Mustang that got all of maybe 8 MPG. It was stout for its day, loud as hell after I put on headers and shorty glass packs, but very nose heavy, had really bad brakes (drums), and was really built for a quarter mile run that by today's standards would be considered slow. Didn't corner worth a damn, but those were the days of bias ply tires and chassis flex too. I likely should have killed my 20 year old self in that one looking back. I still miss the classic look and cringe when I see what they are worth today...

But my 2SS is superior in every metric. Way more power and torque across the entire power band, handles like a slot car, great brakes, wonderful manual transmission, the Alp[ha chassis is so stiff you lift one corner the entire side lifts, and maintains great gas mileage when cruising. Have him try a few test drives. I figured I had one last hot rod in me in my retirement, and will drive the manual until my knees no longer cooperate.

Cheers

That's exactly what his intentions are. His 69 GTO w/Ram air 4 was the fastest of the three he had. He did end up buying a left-over 2020 w/ 2SS and he went with an A10 so his wife could drive it. He's commented on how superior this Camaro is over his GTO. This will be his last hot rod also and he just wanted to revert back in time to enjoy a hobby that he put aside because of his career.

Take Care!

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by Cedar

Here's the deal: He's 74, retired and he's not going to track the car. As being a former 60's GTO gear head he just wants a car to have a little fun with. He's got a wife and a dog so the back seats and the trunk won't be an issue either.
I'm sure he'll enjoy the ride.

Thoughts from a 73 y/o . . .

All he has to do is go into it with the attitude that "fun to drive" is something he's still entitled to. That's the biggest 'pro' of them all, and by comparison all those things that typically get listed as 'cons' tend to diminish in importance.

Who knows, he just might give HPDE a try.


Norm

[UnknownJinX]

Originally Posted by ember1205

EPA estimates are done on a dyno where they can mimic things like rolling resistance, but I don't believe they EVER get the level of wind resistance correct. My Silverado gets about 30% better fuel economy at 68MPH compared to 75. So, the EPA estimates aren't necessarily THAT far off.

In New England, however, there really are no flat (level) roads. And that seems to never be accounted for....

I was referring to the estimate in the gauge cluster. Sorry for not being clear.

The EPA highway ratings are usually more useful while the city ratings are pretty useless.

Sent from toaster or something

[ember1205]

Originally Posted by UnknownJinX

I was referring to the estimate in the gauge cluster. Sorry for not being clear.

The EPA highway ratings are usually more useful while the city ratings are pretty useless.

Sent from toaster or something

Oh... Gotcha. Yeah, I've never had a cluster gauge that wasn't at least 10% off from actual. I also find that the difference varies and the percentage that it's off of sometimes more like 20%.

[Orangeman13]

The ONLY pro that matters - It puts a big smile on my face!

[Fraxum]

Car and Driver Mustang PP2 VS Camaro SS 1LE Comparison

OP, this comparison points out very clearly the Pros and Cons of the Camaro once you get past it is really just a V8 powered toy. It is also gives a very clear driving wonk perspective. I love C&Ds good writing.

Some Relevent quotes:
"The 1LE is a holistic performance-car package; it’s just the car’s packaging you’ll have to overlook."

• "Highs: Precise, feelsome steering; ass-kicking V-8; daily-driver ride quality.
• Lows: That damn interior again, botched facelift.
• Verdict: A sports car with the bellow of a muscle car. A muscle car with the finesse of a sports car."

"If you think you’re tired of reading our complaints about the Camaro’s cramped, cheap interior and pitiful outward visibility, just imagine how we feel writing those things over and over again. Please, Chevy, correct this on the next-generation car (assuming there is one). Pretty please."

"But here we go again: The Camaro’s cabin design is ridiculous. The materials are substandard. Every secondary thing that you need to reach, such as a map pocket or a USB port, is inexplicably behind your back or at such an awkward angle, like the mirror adjusters and navigation screen, that you grow resentful of the car. And why do we have to feel so cramped in such a large car?"

"Okay, with that out of the way, there isn’t much else to dislike about the Camaro 1LE. Its ride quality is good enough that even older enthusiasts won’t complain. Despite an aggressive suspension tune and sticky tires, the 1LE doesn’t tramline. It is a drama-free straight shooter when you want it to be, such as on the expressway drives that lead to fun roads."

"Once on those roads, the Camaro excels. It’s not exactly playful. It is instead precise. The steering system is a no-slack, hyperlinear control device. And though it’s wearing narrower front tires than the Mustang, the Camaro 1LE has immediate and certain turn-in. Its somewhat less aggressive Goodyears help the 1LE deliver 1.11 g’s on the skidpad, stop from 70 mph in 140 feet, and claw through the slalom at 45.3 mph. Those numbers effectively match the Mustang’s. The difference is that the Camaro never feels as though it’s breaking a sweat while performing those feats."

"But it’s the powertrain that truly allows the Camaro to pull away from the Mustang. It might be the waning days for big-displacement, naturally aspirated V-8s, but we’d be happy to drive this small-block into the sunset. It sounds *positively furious basically all the time, regardless of drive mode. We might dial down the programmed-in popping and cracking on overrun, at least in the less sporty modes. But, generally, we don’t mind our V-8s being a little outspoken. And even with relatively tall gears in the six-speed manual, the V-8 seems always at the ready to deliver as much thrust as you might desire."

[gtfoxy]

Originally Posted by Cedar

That's exactly what his intentions are. His 69 GTO w/Ram air 4 was the fastest of the three he had. He did end up buying a left-over 2020 w/ 2SS and he went with an A10 so his wife could drive it. He's commented on how superior this Camaro is over his GTO. This will be his last hot rod also and he just wanted to revert back in time to enjoy a hobby that he put aside because of his career.

Take Care!

Tell him congrats for me!

[ember1205]

Originally Posted by Cedar

That's exactly what his intentions are. His 69 GTO w/Ram air 4 was the fastest of the three he had. He did end up buying a left-over 2020 w/ 2SS and he went with an A10 so his wife could drive it. He's commented on how superior this Camaro is over his GTO. This will be his last hot rod also and he just wanted to revert back in time to enjoy a hobby that he put aside because of his career.

Take Care!

It's obviously "too late" now, but the six speed in these cars is one that I personally believe would be a good one to learn on... Even with the V8. You wouldn't want to be too overzealous with the gas, obviously.

I handed the keys of mine over to my GF. It was the first time she had to drive a manual in probably twenty years. Zero issues at launch, upshifts are super smooth, and Active Rev Match makes downshifting a breeze as well. And, if needed, Hill Start Assist is hugely helpful as well.

[Staves]

I think C/Ds criticism of the interior is BS. I personally love the vents, love the big screen and ease of apple car play, love the base cloth SS seats. The shallow center console is the only negative. Interior doesn’t feel cheap to me. It’s not flashy but who cares. I didn’t pay huge $ for this beast.