[JFWJR179]

Originally Posted by Cedar

My brother is seriously looking at a new 2020 Camaro 2SS with an A8 and I was wondering what were the major pros and cons were about the car.

Thanks

The major CON (deal breaker) for me:
1. T93 Transmission Control Module
in 2020 and newer Camaros with 10 speed
automatic transmission is encrypted and
cannot be tuned and it will never be supported
or cracked by HP Tuners.

If you never plan to modify and or tune
your vehicle, then it doesn’t matter,
but I will not buy a brand new Camaro that
I cannot mod/tune to obtain maximum performance

[Petrol Head]

Originally Posted by JFWJR179

The major CON (deal breaker) for me:
1. T93 Transmission Control Module
in 2020 and newer Camaros with 10 speed
automatic transmission is encrypted and
cannot be tuned and it will never be supported
or cracked by HP Tuners.

If you never plan to modify and or tune
your vehicle, then it doesn’t matter,
but I will not buy a brand new Camaro that
I cannot mod/tune to obtain maximum performance

Really? What they told us would happen is happening already, that the mfgs would make it impossible to tune cars in the future

[Cedar]

Originally Posted by NYJets12

Sorry to hear that at least you caught it early. I had skin cancer 20 years ago I was lucky as sh@t, I hurt my back couldn’t move went to the hospital. As usual you go to the doctors a couple weeks later he checked my back didn’t like what he saw removed a small spot on my back.
He said it just started to turn to cancer after the results came back,he caught it as early as possible.
Also told me once you have it once it usually comes back.
It didn’t come back yet, but watch yourself.
Now I got diabetes I inherited that, runs in the family, that’ll kill me before anything else does .

Thanks, I have a similar story to yours. A year ago I went to the hospital for some pre-surgical tests for my left knee replacement and one of them was a chest x-ray. when I got home after work my primary care Doctor had called my house 6 times that day and said call us immediately and I couldn't figure out what they wanted because I hadn't been to the office for 6 months. When I called at 4:30, I was told I had a good size mass in my right lung and the had a CT scan scheduled for me at 6:00. It was Stage 2 ( small cell carcinoma ) lung cancer. After all the tests and biopsies, I had my right upper lobe of my lung and 4 lymph nodes removed with chemo to follow.

[gtfoxy]

Originally Posted by Cedar

Thanks, I have a similar story to yours. A year ago I went to the hospital for some pre-surgical tests for my left knee replacement and one of them was a chest x-ray. when I got home after work my primary care Doctor had called my house 6 times that day and said call us immediately and I couldn't figure out what they wanted because I hadn't been to the office for 6 months. When I called at 4:30, I was told I had a good size mass in my right lung and the had a CT scan scheduled for me at 6:00. It was Stage 2 ( small cell carcinoma ) lung cancer. After all the tests and biopsies, I had my right upper lobe of my lung and 4 lymph nodes removed with chemo to follow.

Wow man, talk about getting a shock.

MiL was diagnosed with sarcoma in her left shoulder. It’s been a long road.

[Fraxum]

Just to pile on. Consider the Camaro as a sports/muscle car.

Pros: The LT1 powered Camaros ARE the most fun cars to drive in the Camaro's price range.

Cons:

• None

Unless you want to look at the Camaro as a car. Then:

Cons:

• A barely usable back seat. (but you can fold it down)
• The visibility is poor. (But you can get used to it)
• Not much headroom. (avoid the sun roof if you are tall and want to wear a helmet)
• The interior design is weird. (but very driver oriented and all day comfortable)

Think of the Camaro as a more practical and cheaper Corvette. A number of former Corvettes owners agree.

[JT58]

I love my 2016 Camaro 1LT and have 0 Cons- except that I am contemplating upgrading to a 1LT or an SS. It has "only" a V6 but it eliminates a couple of cons some of you have mentioned. It is dirt cheap to own and operate, fun to drive with decent performance and handling. Regular 87 gas, 334 HP and i average 33 MPG with the 6 speed manual and insurance is cheap.

You get used to the seating and visibility and it's super comfortable. I am 6' 1" with 34" inseam. I cannot get comfortable in a lot of cars as the seat does not go back far enough or the steering wheel does not telescope enough. I am super comfy in the Camaro and daily drive it 35 miles each way back and forth to work.

I really want a V8 but some concerns about increase in operating cost. If you want a really fun Camaro on the cheap the V6 is the way to go. Even the turbo 4 requires premium fuel, increasing operating cost. So the only con I see is that you will at some point want a V8.

[gtfoxy]

Originally Posted by JT58

I love my 2016 Camaro 1LT and have 0 Cons- except that I am contemplating upgrading to a 1LT or an SS. It has "only" a V6 but it eliminates a couple of cons some of you have mentioned. It is dirt cheap to own and operate, fun to drive with decent performance and handling. Regular 87 gas, 334 HP and i average 33 MPG with the 6 speed manual and insurance is cheap.

You get used to the seating and visibility and it's super comfortable. I am 6' 1" with 34" inseam. I cannot get comfortable in a lot of cars as the seat does not go back far enough or the steering wheel does not telescope enough. I am super comfy in the Camaro and daily drive it 35 miles each way back and forth to work.

I really want a V8 but some concerns about increase in operating cost. If you want a really fun Camaro on the cheap the V6 is the way to go. Even the turbo 4 requires premium fuel, increasing operating cost. So the only con I see is that you will at some point want a V8.

The performance of the V6 is certainly impressive. It’s right up there with 4Gen LS’s & totally eclipses the 3Gen LT1.

That being said, I can’t stand the sound of that motor. It’s just, weird. The new firing order of the LT1/LT4 is just heaven & the NPP is really not a bad tone.

As far as V8 power, maybe a few go from an LT4 back to an LT1, but for most, & this includes those that mod anything, including the V6,, more is the goal.

[Staves]

Originally Posted by Fraxum

Just to pile on. Consider the Camaro as a sports/muscle car.


Cons:

• Interior design is weird. (but very driver oriented and all day comfortable)

I don't see this as much as a con. Besides the lame/shallow armrest, I find the interior design superb.

[JSH]

I mean, come on, the ZL1 1LE is a race car with license plates. It has a track setting for every condition and it rides like a race car - snug seats to keep you from moving around, and stiff and loud and very nimble. Probably the shortest turning radius of any car I've owned. I love this car.

[Staves]

Originally Posted by JSH

I mean, come on, the ZL1 1LE is a race car with license plates. It has a track setting for every condition and it rides like a race car - snug seats to keep you from moving around, and stiff and loud and very nimble. Probably the shortest turning radius of any car I've owned. I love this car.

He's looking at an SS and I'm guessing doesn't have a $60K++ budget. I wouldn't want a ZLE suspension at 74yrs old either.

[UnknownJinX]

Originally Posted by CreeperRS

Tires will last about 15-16,000 miles, about $1500 to swap them out. Basically, maintenance is going to be the only down side as far as money goes. It’s only natural, the more you drive the more you pay. Other than that this thing is a beast all the way around!

Don't get runflats and cut the tire cost goes down a bit.

The GY SC3 on my 1LE costs CAN$1800 a set to buy and install, tax included. This is US$1400 and this is for an SS 1LE. Probably closer to US$1200 or so for an SS.

Tire life is gonna suck for anything that grips well and is driven hard, no way around it. Well worth the money, though.

Originally Posted by CamaroSSStlfan

You mean the Scatpack Challenger right? The standard R/T Challenger is too slow.

The Coyote Mustangs will blow standard R/T away.

If not a Challenger then an SS or Coyote Mustang.

Coyote, Scatpack, and SS all pretty much the same performance wise. The 5.0 might be slightly slower than the SS but there is a lot of aftermarket stuff for it to easily get it up to par.

The Coyote is a pretty nice engine and revs high, which some people might like.

That MT-82 is a deal breaker for me, though. Feels like a family car manual trans and it's not very reliable, either.

Originally Posted by Fraxum

Think of the Camaro as a more practical and cheaper Corvette. A number of former Corvettes owners agree.

Well, depends on if you need the back seats or cargo space.

The C7 Fastback is very practical when it comes to cargo space. Far more so than the Camaro. It just doesn't have back seats.

That said, the C7 scraped almost everywhere I went which is not fun. Haven't scrape my Camaro so far.

Originally Posted by JT58

I love my 2016 Camaro 1LT and have 0 Cons- except that I am contemplating upgrading to a 1LT or an SS. It has "only" a V6 but it eliminates a couple of cons some of you have mentioned. It is dirt cheap to own and operate, fun to drive with decent performance and handling. Regular 87 gas, 334 HP and i average 33 MPG with the 6 speed manual and insurance is cheap.

You get used to the seating and visibility and it's super comfortable. I am 6' 1" with 34" inseam. I cannot get comfortable in a lot of cars as the seat does not go back far enough or the steering wheel does not telescope enough. I am super comfy in the Camaro and daily drive it 35 miles each way back and forth to work.

I really want a V8 but some concerns about increase in operating cost. If you want a really fun Camaro on the cheap the V6 is the way to go. Even the turbo 4 requires premium fuel, increasing operating cost. So the only con I see is that you will at some point want a V8.

I don't know what it is, but I know two cases of local V6 owners that complain about their gas mileage being about as good as my V8. And from the EPA rating, V6 M6 highway gas mileage will be very close to V8 A10 w/AFM.

The main cost advantage will be from V6 only requiring 87 while V8 will preferably need 91+, which, depending on where you live, could be a big or small gap. Insurance will also be cheaper for the V6.

Otherwise, it's a different engine experience. In exchange of low-end torque, it is more eager to rev. And you can wring it out more in the city without breaking the law.

Sent from toaster or something

[ember1205]

Originally Posted by UnknownJinX

I don't know what it is, but I know two cases of local V6 owners that complain about their gas mileage being about as good as my V8. And from the EPA rating, V6 M6 highway gas mileage will be very close to V8 A10 w/AFM.

The main cost advantage will be from V6 only requiring 87 while V8 will preferably need 91+, which, depending on where you live, could be a big or small gap. Insurance will also be cheaper for the V6.

Otherwise, it's a different engine experience. In exchange of low-end torque, it is more eager to rev. And you can wring it out more in the city without breaking the law.

Sent from toaster or something

I had a V6 rental that the mileage was very comparable to my SS over the week (ish) that I had it. The smaller motors simply have to work harder for things like stop and go traffic, entering highways, maintaining highways speeds against the drag from the air, etc. So, all around, a smaller engine isn't really helping you "that much" because the car really isn't any lighter, smaller, or smoother through the air.

Yes, the V8 (and the turbo 4, I believe) requires Premium fuel. For me, I control that offset handily by buying my gas at Costco at every change I get (it's a Top Tier fuel and the Premium cost is only a very small amount more than buying 87 pretty much anywhere else.

[UnknownJinX]

Originally Posted by ember1205

I had a V6 rental that the mileage was very comparable to my SS over the week (ish) that I had it. The smaller motors simply have to work harder for things like stop and go traffic, entering highways, maintaining highways speeds against the drag from the air, etc. So, all around, a smaller engine isn't really helping you "that much" because the car really isn't any lighter, smaller, or smoother through the air.



Yes, the V8 (and the turbo 4, I believe) requires Premium fuel. For me, I control that offset handily by buying my gas at Costco at every change I get (it's a Top Tier fuel and the Premium cost is only a very small amount more than buying 87 pretty much anywhere else.

The great low-end torque helps a lot. That's why you see a lot of turbocharged family cars nowadays - better low-end torque than their naturally aspirated predecessors, which means you don't have to rev as high. My friend's Mazda6 2.5T that I am borrowing can make 310 lb-ft at 2000 RPM. Not bad at all and that's stronger than a lot of NA V6 engines.

Even in the M6 form without AFM, V8 has a very economical 6th Gear. Going at 75 MPH/120 km/h and I am only revving at 1800 RPM.

I think a smaller engine mostly helps with idling since a smaller engine needs less fuel to idle, and it could be better when cruising at slow highway speeds. The V6 would need to rev higher to get going at the same rate as the V8, though. LT1 makes more torque at 1200 RPM than the LGX is capable of. Even the LTG will have more torque, though I would still pick the V6 between it and the 2.0T because I prefer an NA engine.

Both LT1 and LTG preferably take premium fuel. They will run on 87 but will lose power and fuel economy. I believe LT1 on 87 drops it to LS3 level power, which is still plenty for DD.

My friend claims that his Mazda6 2.5T runs a little rough on the Costco premium gas versus Shell or Chevron. This is in Canada and I don't know how it is in the States. Being a single guy, a Costco membership isn't worth the saving so it's out of consideration anyway for me.

Sent from toaster or something

[HCI2000SS]

I'm really surprised to hear the comments of the V8 being almost as good as the V6 on gas mileage. Case in point is my buddy's A8 SS vs my A8 RS V6. Doing very similar type of driving I'll get a solid 3-4 mpgs better. His best recorded highway was 29 and my best has been 34 so far. Factor in the 75 cents difference between 93 vs 87 octane, and that adds up a lot. But on the flip side getting almost 30 mpgs from a 455 hp V8 is very impressive