[KirkH]

A bottle of ceramic coating costs $50 wholesale and will cover 2.5 cars.

A good paint correction should take 5-8 hours at $75/hr.

It takes about an hour to apply the coating at $75/hr.

So it should take 6-9 hours to perform a ceramic coating.

That's how much I charge for a ceramic coating job.

Ceramic is not magic. It is prone to get water spots if you have hard water. It will still get swirl scratches if you aren't vigilant with your wash methods and towels.

It will give you a very slick surface for about a year. That very slick surface SHOULD allow you to wash less frequently and keep bugs and things from sticking as much as an uncoated surface.

[Artryan]

Originally Posted by Joshinator99

Guess my experience is the exact opposite of yours. I find myself almost never having to wash my car with my Crystal Serum & EXO V4 ceramic coatings. When I do, the touch free foam cannon and an air dry make short work of it. I’ve had to break out the mitt once this summer and that was after a trip to the drag strip...

Ceramic is SIGNIFICANTLY harder and more durable than wax. It’s a broadband vs dial-up internet difference level of protection. But, it’s all in the prep. I think I did 5 different steps to get the car prepped for ceramic, not including the Sonax Perfect Finish polish work. If any corners were cut there, I can see why you could have had problems. The surface has to be impeccably clean before application IMO.

That kind of touches on my theory. When people traditionally wax their cars, they don't spend several hours doing prep work and paint correction. IMHO, people discount the effects of all the extra work that goes into applying ceramics when they see the final product. It's just not the same as a clay bar and a coat of wax, and the results should obviously be better. However, I seriously doubt there would be a noticeable difference if the same prep work were done prior to applying a coat of wax.

As far as there being this massive difference in protection, I personally have not seen it. I top my ceramics with Polish Angel Cosmic Spritz and I would say that bugs come off a little easier, but beyond that, I have had the same issues with dirt, dust, and bird droppings adhering to the surface.

We have not seen rain here in over a month, so really the only thing accumulating on my paint is dust and pollen. Even hitting it with a pressure washer doesn't remove all of that.

All that said, even though the Cosmic Spritz is expensive, it is by far the best maintenance coating/ polish I have used.

[Joshinator99]

Originally Posted by Artryan

That kind of touches on my theory. When people traditionally wax their cars, they don't spend several hours doing prep work and paint correction. IMHO, people discount the effects of all the extra work that goes into applying ceramics when they see the final product. It's just not the same as a clay bar and a coat of wax, and the results should obviously be better. However, I seriously doubt there would be a noticeable difference if the same prep work were done prior to applying a coat of wax.

As far as there being this massive difference in protection, I personally have not seen it. I top my ceramics with Polish Angel Cosmic Spritz and I would say that bugs come off a little easier, but beyond that, I have had the same issues with dirt, dust, and bird droppings adhering to the surface.

We have not seen rain here in over a month, so really the only thing accumulating on my paint is dust and pollen. Even hitting it with a pressure washer doesn't remove all of that.

All that said, even though the Cosmic Spritz is expensive, it is by far the best maintenance coating/ polish I have used.

Good prep work is good prep work, wax or ceramic. If you want your paint to look it’s best, you’re doing that work either way. I think ceramic just forces you to do the right thing since it’s *much* more difficult to remove if you do need to correct something after the fact. And that proves my point about protection: most waxes and sealants are coming off after a wash in Dawn dish detergent or a few spritzes of spray...lol. Ceramic removal usually requires a medium cutting polish and a machine to remove. The molecular bonding and hardness of ceramic protection is simply way beyond what any wax can do.

Just because you’re not seeing it personally, doesn’t mean that is normally the case...Think about it, a pressure washer is not removing dust & pollen?!? Crazy, since that shouldn’t be an issue for either wax or ceramic. It just sounds like you have some issues with your coating. Bad product, bad prep, who knows. But a proper ceramic coating will give *years* of protection. My buddy has the old last generation EXO (V3) ceramic on his ride. It’s been on for 2 years as a *daily driver* in New England...a serious test! I saw him pressure wash it a couple of weeks ago, still looks great, beading like crazy, and no mitt needed.

Moral of the story: meticulous prep work plus fresh product will give you great results. It’s a bummer that didn’t happen for you.

[Daily1LE]

Originally Posted by TRZ06

Again though, if you have to "do maintenance" on it every 6 mths or so, then again, a good Polymer wax will be just as good and cost much less.

I used Zaino on my previous cars every 9 mths or so and the protection, shine, and hydrophobic properties are just as good. My point is there is no need to spend the additional money if you will be "refreshing" every 6 mths anyways.

But the maintenance is simple. I don't have to clay, polish, and apply a wax/sealant again every 6/mo. The C2v3 is simply a spray on wipe off product, takes less than 5 minutes to do the whole car and them I am good to go.

Originally Posted by Joshinator99

Guess my experience is the exact opposite of yours. I find myself almost never having to wash my car with my Crystal Serum & EXO V4 ceramic coatings. When I do, the touch free foam cannon and an air dry make short work of it. I’ve had to break out the mitt once this summer and that was after a trip to the drag strip...

Ceramic is SIGNIFICANTLY harder and more durable than wax. It’s a broadband vs dial-up internet difference level of protection. But, it’s all in the prep. I think I did 5 different steps to get the car prepped for ceramic, not including the Sonax Perfect Finish polish work. If any corners were cut there, I can see why you could have had problems. The surface has to be impeccably clean before application IMO.

Agreed. I think the cost is why most people knock ceramic coatings. But the majority of the cost for a ceramic coating isn't for the actual product, it is for the paint correction that is required before you can apply the coating. While you can't buy gtechniq yourself (i don't think anyway) there are companies that sell ceramic coating bottles for $100 or less, so the actual product is not that expensive.

[TRZ06]

Originally Posted by Daily1LE

But the maintenance is simple. I don't have to clay, polish, and apply a wax/sealant again every 6/mo. The C2v3 is simply a spray on wipe off product, takes less than 5 minutes to do the whole car and them I am good to go.




Agreed. I think the cost is why most people knock ceramic coatings. But the majority of the cost for a ceramic coating isn't for the actual product, it is for the paint correction that is required before you can apply the coating. While you can't buy gtechniq yourself (i don't think anyway) there are companies that sell ceramic coating bottles for $100 or less, so the actual product is not that expensive.

I don't do my own hardcore detail anymore, I have better use of my time.

I go to a respected detailer and whether you get a ceramic "booster" or a good, clay bar/wax reapply, the costs are very similar. I would venture that the profit margins on ceramic related stuff is higher than non ceramic options.

[harner]

Originally Posted by Daily1LE

But the majority of the cost for a ceramic coating isn't for the actual product, it is for the paint correction that is required before you can apply the coating.

While I agree that the majority of the cost is in the labor/time, paint correction is NOT required before a coating is applied. With that being said, a coating only looks as good as the paint under it and I'd highly recommend correction and polishing prior to a coating. The paint surface should still be prepped prior to any coating - sio2, wax, etc or it'll fail prematurely.

[harner]

Gtechniq sells one of the best consumer-grade ceramic products on the market IMO. CSL topped with EXO is a solid combo.

[Joshinator99]

Originally Posted by harner

Gtechniq sells one of the best consumer-grade ceramic products on the market IMO. CSL topped with EXO is a solid combo.

This. Agree 100%.

[Artryan]

Originally Posted by Joshinator99

Good prep work is good prep work, wax or ceramic. If you want your paint to look it’s best, you’re doing that work either way. I think ceramic just forces you to do the right thing since it’s *much* more difficult to remove if you do need to correct something after the fact. And that proves my point about protection: most waxes and sealants are coming off after a wash in Dawn dish detergent or a few spritzes of spray...lol. Ceramic removal usually requires a medium cutting polish and a machine to remove. The molecular bonding and hardness of ceramic protection is simply way beyond what any wax can do.

Just because you’re not seeing it personally, doesn’t mean that is normally the case...Think about it, a pressure washer is not removing dust & pollen?!? Crazy, since that shouldn’t be an issue for either wax or ceramic. It just sounds like you have some issues with your coating. Bad product, bad prep, who knows. But a proper ceramic coating will give *years* of protection. My buddy has the old last generation EXO (V3) ceramic on his ride. It’s been on for 2 years as a *daily driver* in New England...a serious test! I saw him pressure wash it a couple of weeks ago, still looks great, beading like crazy, and no mitt needed.

Moral of the story: meticulous prep work plus fresh product will give you great results. It’s a bummer that didn’t happen for you.

I've never used dish soap to wash a car, and I've never had a coat of wax come off after months of washing, let alone one wash.

My point is that I believe ceramics are overhyped. Sure, the average ceramic coating is probably better than the average coat of wax, BUT it is also much more expensive and just as involved in terms of maintenance.

All I can really say is that I've tried 3 different coatings and two different professional installers. I have been disappointed in the performance of ceramics compared to what I was led to believe by reading countless reviews and testimonials prior to having my vehicles coated. Trust me, I REALLY wanted to have my socks knocked off, but that just didn't happen. It's not that they're bad, it's just that there are products out there now that offer similar results for a lot less money.

IMHO, if you think you're going to get a ceramic and walk away with a car you hardly have to work at to keep clean and shiny for years to come, you're sorely mistaken. There is still a lot of work involved to maintain the coating and the finish.

If you are willing to put in the work and take pride in protecting your finish, a quality wax or spray will do just as well for a lot less money.

Either way, it's an exciting time in the car care industry. There are lots of new and inexpensive products coming out that seem to be fantastic.

[Daily1LE]

Originally Posted by TRZ06

I don't do my own hardcore detail anymore, I have better use of my time.

I go to a respected detailer and whether you get a ceramic "booster" or a good, clay bar/wax reapply, the costs are very similar. I would venture that the profit margins on ceramic related stuff is higher than non ceramic options.

I still don't think the costs would be similar. The c2v3 is a spray on product, you can even use it as a drying aid after washing a car so it doesn't even add any extra steps to apply it. I doubt a detailer would even charge you extra if you asked them to spray it on before they dry the car on any normal wash. A clay/wax is a way more involved process, there is no way the costs are even close. But prices will vary, perhaps you have a hook-up, so i guess it all depends on the person. For me, it's free since I wash my own car so that is where I am coming from when I say that there isn't much cost in upkeep for ceramic coatings.

Originally Posted by harner

While I agree that the majority of the cost is in the labor/time, paint correction is NOT required before a coating is applied. With that being said, a coating only looks as good as the paint under it and I'd highly recommend correction and polishing prior to a coating. The paint surface should still be prepped prior to any coating - sio2, wax, etc or it'll fail prematurely.

Hmm, good question. I am not sure any detailer would apply a coating for you without requiring prep work first. I know they have pretty high standards with Gtechniq (and other major ceramic brands) and they might not be willing to apply the coating on an unprepped surface. Interesting though, I'll ask my detailer tomorrow as I am picking up a truck I just dropped off for tint yesterday, see what they say.

Originally Posted by Artryan

I've never used dish soap to wash a car, and I've never had a coat of wax come off after months of washing, let alone one wash.

My point is that I believe ceramics are overhyped. Sure, the average ceramic coating is probably better than the average coat of wax, BUT it is also much more expensive and just as involved in terms of maintenance.

All I can really say is that I've tried 3 different coatings and two different professional installers. I have been disappointed in the performance of ceramics compared to what I was led to believe by reading countless reviews and testimonials prior to having my vehicles coated. Trust me, I REALLY wanted to have my socks knocked off, but that just didn't happen. It's not that they're bad, it's just that there are products out there now that offer similar results for a lot less money.

IMHO, if you think you're going to get a ceramic and walk away with a car you hardly have to work at to keep clean and shiny for years to come, you're sorely mistaken. There is still a lot of work involved to maintain the coating and the finish.

If you are willing to put in the work and take pride in protecting your finish, a quality wax or spray will do just as well for a lot less money.

Either way, it's an exciting time in the car care industry. There are lots of new and inexpensive products coming out that seem to be fantastic.

Sad to hear you had bad results. I am still shocked as for me it was a night and day different to this day. Perhaps I haven't had the coating on long enough, and i'll be in your boat somewhere down the line.

[arpad_m]

Originally Posted by Artryan

I've never used dish soap to wash a car, and I've never had a coat of wax come off after months of washing, let alone one wash.

My point is that I believe ceramics are overhyped. Sure, the average ceramic coating is probably better than the average coat of wax, BUT it is also much more expensive and just as involved in terms of maintenance.

All I can really say is that I've tried 3 different coatings and two different professional installers. I have been disappointed in the performance of ceramics compared to what I was led to believe by reading countless reviews and testimonials prior to having my vehicles coated. Trust me, I REALLY wanted to have my socks knocked off, but that just didn't happen. It's not that they're bad, it's just that there are products out there now that offer similar results for a lot less money.

IMHO, if you think you're going to get a ceramic and walk away with a car you hardly have to work at to keep clean and shiny for years to come, you're sorely mistaken. There is still a lot of work involved to maintain the coating and the finish.

If you are willing to put in the work and take pride in protecting your finish, a quality wax or spray will do just as well for a lot less money.

Either way, it's an exciting time in the car care industry. There are lots of new and inexpensive products coming out that seem to be fantastic.

I can kind of relate to this, having ceramic applied to 2 of my cars and neither fully meeting my expectations.

The thing is, however, it's so easy to overlook or minimize advantages once we secure them. I honestly don't touch the car most of the time, a "spray-off, foam, spray, foam, rinse, dry with a leaf blower" cyle practically cleans it up---for a year or so before the coating starts to give out a bit (I have Ceramic Pro on the Camaro).

Obviously, wheels and tires and glass and plastic do need additional treatment, plus occasionally I have to break out the mitt and thus almost inevitably put minor scratches into the clear over time, yet whenever I wash my wife's SUV, I realize the difference again and again and no longer regret going with the ceramic.

[Artryan]

Originally Posted by arpad_m

I can kind of relate to this, having ceramic applied to 2 of my cars and neither fully meeting my expectations.

The thing is, however, it's so easy to overlook or minimize advantages once we secure them. I honestly don't touch the car most of the time, a "spray-off, foam, spray, foam, rinse, dry with a leaf blower" cyle practically cleans it up---for a year or so before the coating starts to give out a bit (I have Ceramic Pro on the Camaro).

Obviously, wheels and tires and glass and plastic do need additional treatment, plus occasionally I have to break out the mitt and thus almost inevitably put minor scratches into the clear over time, yet whenever I wash my wife's SUV, I realize the difference again and again and no longer regret going with the ceramic.

I will say that both my truck and car are black. Perhaps that is the difference between myself and others that say they can basically rinse dirt off without having to was it in a tradition manner. I think if I had white or silver, perhaps, my opinion would probably be different.

[harner]

Originally Posted by Daily1LE

Hmm, good question. I am not sure any detailer would apply a coating for you without requiring prep work first. I know they have pretty high standards with Gtechniq (and other major ceramic brands) and they might not be willing to apply the coating on an unprepped surface. Interesting though, I'll ask my detailer tomorrow as I am picking up a truck I just dropped off for tint yesterday, see what they say.
.

Actually, detailers forget to surface prep quite frequently, not always. Also, many don't do it properly. For anyone who wants to question their local detailer(s) when shopping for a coating, ask them what their prep process is. If they get defensive, that's a red flag.

Personally, I have received calls in my 2 years of business where someone asks me to fix other detailers' mistakes. They're usually a failed coating due to improper prep.

Also, my personal prep process is a bit redundant, but gets it done. I hit each panel separately right before it's coated. I first spray it down with Prep All, wipe with a microfiber, then spray it down again with Gyeon Prep and wipe with a separate microfiber. Overkill, but I know any polish left over has been completely removed and no weird spots missed.

[harner]

Originally Posted by Artryan

I will say that both my truck and car are black. Perhaps that is the difference between myself and others that say they can basically rinse dirt off without having to was it in a tradition manner. I think if I had white or silver, perhaps, my opinion would probably be different.

My last few toys were black. It's still my favorite color due to it essentially being a mirror when properly polished and clean. Keeping black clean is a full time job. Even with a polymer sealant, wax, and spray sealant, they also seemed to scratch and mar super easy. It wasn't until I finally caved and coated my last black car that I was able to care for the thing with sense without it scratching every time I looked at it.

I'm also a bit obsessive about hand washing regularly. Quality coating add just enough hardness to help with damages caused by washing IMO. I use the two bucket method with microfiber mitts/pads and Dreadnaught drying towels with light pressure.