[Zone5]

You know, you think about the thousands of SCCA racers, NASA racers, Porsche Club racers, Stock Car and Oval racers, HPDE instructors and students, road-course lappers, autocrossers, rally drivers, drifting enthusiasts, and all of the other driving-proficient people out there who would flag driving infractions based on the incredibly stupid metrics the insurance companies have devised.

Then, contrast that with teenage drivers, very old drivers, distracted drivers, reckless and irresponsible drivers, timid drivers, and texting drivers. The latter group (teenagers, old, reckless, etc.) would probably have less insurance-company devised infractions. But who do you think would have less accidents: racers/skilled drivers driving on the road, or texting, teenage, timid, etc. drivers? Come on. Who comes up with those metrics? I think a lot of those derived metrics are based on speculation and extrapolation, not facts. Actuaries come up with that stuff. Actuaries use statistics. Statistics can be presented in ways to justify any conclusion.

Baby-soft braking, turn signal use, and slow accelerations mean nothing. Accident record, focus (not texting), situational awareness, and driving ability should be the metrics by how we are judged.

[3.8TransAM]

Originally Posted by UnknownJinX

I could see this being sort of fine on a slow family car, but depending on where you live, calling them to tell them you are braking hard for a deer/pedestrian crossing a red light/car running a stop sign could get old quick, for both you and them.

And even then, there are too many variables at play. Some highways in interior BC is totally fine to do 20~30 km/h or 12~20 mph over on a hot sunny day in the summer, to the point that even cops don't care. I don't imagine those going so well with insurance, though. And what about passing on a 2-lane highway? You have to accelerate fast to a high speed to complete the overtaking as fast as possible. If conditions like weather come into play then I could see it being fair(passing on a snowy day is a no go), but I doubt they will bother making their system that competent.

Ultimately, I think this will just create the exact opposite of those car-share service drivers, whereas car-share drivers are infamous for driving too fast/aggressively to save a couple of bucks, insurance discount drivers will probably be known for driving too slow(so your stereotypical Toyota driver) for conditions for a couple of bucks. At least the car-share cars are easy to tell apart and avoid.

With that being said, I see it could be useful for people who are known for numerous previous infractions. Think of a breathalyzer ignition lock for people who have a record of DUI. But again, roads are too unpredictable for a system like this to ever be perfect.



I highly doubt GM will spend the money and effort involved to poll your GPS location at all times. That also doesn't play out PR-wise. I think they will just poll it when necessary, like when you need them to disable the car or when you need them to rescue you in a crash.

And turning off your phone location service is not too useful since it could still be traced just with local cell towers. It's less precise but it could get the job done. You could turn off the cell service but that defeats the purpose of a phone.

Honestly, if you are that concerned, you need a phone like this.

The only real reason to be concerned at all is if these services get hacked by malicious people - hence why I personally don't like signing up for new accounts just for random crap, but that doesn't seem to be your argument.

One of my favourite articles of all times is this one. Worth a read.

https://askleo.com/youre-just-not-that-interesting/

This entire logic is why we are were we are today......


It's just this and it's just that is how it starts. It then keeps growing and growing with people to sheeple to stop it.


You buy a product it is yours, not theirs to get a lifetime of data from and while they don't track you real time you can bet your ass they are seeing where u go, where u stop for gas, where the mistress lives at 3am and on an on.


Data is huge money and frankly it's bullshit that they are allowed to screw you over like this on small purchases, let alone major ones. We are worth more alive than dead only for the sole purpose that what we do, where we go and the data they collect from us.


Onstar is not providing you goods and services, they are there to make money. Do people pay for it, yep they sure do. Are there millions upon millions of embedded onstar systems to take advantage off for data collection? Now u found where the money comes from.....


Shall we talk about "infrastructure" and how tracking all purchases off $600 or more? Data is used for good and bad, people are stupid for allowing it to continue however.

[JKSully]

Originally Posted by 3.8TransAM

This entire logic is why we are were we are today......

I'd say "we are where we are" because of the crappy educational system and this newfound sense of "everybody's an expert because they read about it on the internet." The lack of clarity in your post pretty much proves the first point, and your obvious misunderstanding of the two points in your last sentence proves the second.

[Rnovrit]

Does the unit read the info from the vehicle ecu or does it have it’s own sensors internally?

[UnknownJinX]

Originally Posted by Zone5

You know, you think about the thousands of SCCA racers, NASA racers, Porsche Club racers, Stock Car and Oval racers, HPDE instructors and students, road-course lappers, autocrossers, rally drivers, drifting enthusiasts, and all of the other driving-proficient people out there who would flag driving infractions based on the incredibly stupid metrics the insurance companies have devised.

Then, contrast that with teenage drivers, very old drivers, distracted drivers, reckless and irresponsible drivers, timid drivers, and texting drivers. The latter group (teenagers, old, reckless, etc.) would probably have less insurance-company devised infractions. But who do you think would have less accidents: racers/skilled drivers driving on the road, or texting, teenage, timid, etc. drivers? Come on. Who comes up with those metrics? I think a lot of those derived metrics are based on speculation and extrapolation, not facts. Actuaries come up with that stuff. Actuaries use statistics. Statistics can be presented in ways to justify any conclusion.

Baby-soft braking, turn signal use, and slow accelerations mean nothing. Accident record, focus (not texting), situational awareness, and driving ability should be the metrics by how we are judged.

Yep, totally see where this is coming from.

Originally Posted by Chutzpah

My argument is I like my privacy…I’m not concerned about cell tower tracking… that’s general information. I consciously make the decision to own a phone and I control when I carry it and turn it off and on. I want the same type of ability with my vehicle.

There may be a more up to date versions…

https://www.onstar.com/content/tcps/...tementold.html

https://techcrunch.com/2020/11/18/gm...ance-business/

Originally Posted by 3.8TransAM

This entire logic is why we are were we are today......

It's just this and it's just that is how it starts. It then keeps growing and growing with people to sheeple to stop it.

I mean, if your goal is to make yourself feel better then alright. There is always the option to rip OnStar out if it makes you feel better. But IMO, that's all this achieves. You feel better. I just personally think it's not worth my time to worry about because, as the article I linked mentioned, you as an individual just aren't that interesting, and I don't mean it in a rude way. Being conscious about what you say on Social Media is far more important.

I held a data analyst job before and trust me, interpreting data is no easy task(well, it's partially due to the fact that a lot of data comes from human entries, but still) and sure, you could automate the process to help, but interpreting the tens of millions of cars GM sells on an individual level is expensive and frankly, pointless. If there is a whistleblowing event about OnStar collecting/doing too much with the data, that will be a huge blow to GM's PR. If GM's is there to make money, spending a ton of resources to do something extremely risky doesn't sound like a smart idea to me.

What matter in that millions of GB of data are trends. It could be useful to see data trends from variables like age and gender. Nobody is gonna bother digging through that data to specifically look at you and me. That is, unless you pay for their insurance and only then you become "interesting" to them.

Now, I understand the slippery slope component, but IMO OnStar isn't stepping into that yet. I am sure everyone has a different level of tolerance, though.

[ember1205]

Originally Posted by Puddin

Nationwide does the same thing. I did it for mine and knocked 40% off my bill so I can't complain. As long as you don't drive like an ass you really have nothing to worry about.

The problem is that you have to "not drive like an ass" according to THEIR definition, which they can change at any time. AND... They will ABSOLUTELY use gathered information to deny a claim if they feel they can.

There is no reason for this level of monitoring.

[Mike7409]

The one from State Farm links to your phone and uses the gps in your phone.

[Puddin]

Originally Posted by ember1205

The problem is that you have to "not drive like an ass" according to THEIR definition, which they can change at any time. AND... They will ABSOLUTELY use gathered information to deny a claim if they feel they can.

There is no reason for this level of monitoring.

That is a bunch of "what ifs". I'm just saying I had no issue with Nationwide and their setup and my car can't even sit still at a red light. I drove like a normal person and maxed out their discount even with the infractions that I got. Anytime I get a chance to save money I'll take it whether it be on insurance, buying a new car or whatever else I'm looking at spending money on.

[UnknownJinX]

Originally Posted by Puddin

That is a bunch of "what ifs". I'm just saying I had no issue with Nationwide and their setup and my car can't even sit still at a red light. I drove like a normal person and maxed out their discount even with the infractions that I got. Anytime I get a chance to save money I'll take it whether it be on insurance, buying a new car or whatever else I'm looking at spending money on.

But the whole point of insurance is to protect you from "what ifs", LOL.

Ember also has a solid point there: insurance companies are businesses that need to turn a profit, and they will use anything they have to deny your claim. Your driving data could help them deny your claim if they feel like they can use it against you. While they won't bother shuffling through your data if you don't do anything to warrant their attention, an accident(especially an at-fault one) will certainly warrant them to shuffle through that GPS data.

Saving money is great, but you have to think about the consequences. If you get into an accident and they deny your claim with the data they collect, your savings, even over a couple of years, are drops in a bucket compared to the medical, repair/replacement, settlement bills you will stack up. It's really just like buying auto insurance coverage that's too low for the medical bills of today. No one plans to get into an accident, but it will bite you the moment you least expect it.

Also, driving like a "normal" person? What's normal, anyway? Like a Toyota Camry? I can't manage how you drive, but what's the point to drive a Camaro SS like a Prius? You may as well just pick up a Prius and save some gas money, then.

[hotlap]

I daily drive a Camaro 1LE. It uses expensive gas, expensive tires, expensive brakes, 10 qts. of expensive oil, etc... Saving $20 each month on insurance by plugging in a big brother monitoring device, that forces me to drive like an old lady, is of no interest to me. I have Allstate

[indyz]

Add progressive to the list. They use an app on your phone called snapshot.

Some idiot pulls out in front of you and you have to slam on the brakes? Guess what it's your fault. It counts an event against you.

And no discount either.... Sayonara

[Puddin]

Originally Posted by UnknownJinX

But the whole point of insurance is to protect you from "what ifs", LOL.

Ember also has a solid point there: insurance companies are businesses that need to turn a profit, and they will use anything they have to deny your claim. Your driving data could help them deny your claim if they feel like they can use it against you. While they won't bother shuffling through your data if you don't do anything to warrant their attention, an accident(especially an at-fault one) will certainly warrant them to shuffle through that GPS data.

Saving money is great, but you have to think about the consequences. If you get into an accident and they deny your claim with the data they collect, your savings, even over a couple of years, are drops in a bucket compared to the medical, repair/replacement, settlement bills you will stack up. It's really just like buying auto insurance coverage that's too low for the medical bills of today. No one plans to get into an accident, but it will bite you the moment you least expect it.

Also, driving like a "normal" person? What's normal, anyway? Like a Toyota Camry? I can't manage how you drive, but what's the point to drive a Camaro SS like a Prius? You may as well just pick up a Prius and save some gas money, then.

Normal as in matching the surrounding vehicles around you. There are plenty of places for you to take your Camaro if you want to drive fast. I take mine to the strip about every two weeks just to air it out the rest of the time it's my daily driver. I don't need to save money on gas E85 is cheap and that's all I run.

[CamaroSSStlfan]

Originally Posted by indyz

Add progressive to the list. They use an app on your phone called snapshot.

Some idiot pulls out in front of you and you have to slam on the brakes? Guess what it's your fault. It counts an event against you.

And no discount either.... Sayonara

Here in Floriduh that's literally everyday if you drive lol.

I use USAA and Liberty Mutual before that. None of this extra BS for savings.

[sandm]

here's my results. ymmv.

had progressive and got their obd2 nannies for all 3 cars. had a saturn sc2 daily commuter, 00 f1504x boat towing rig and 16 genesis coupe at the time.
I joined in the fall as I put the gennie coupe away for the winter. 20% discount as there were NO miles on it.
ford was only driven a few miles over the 6 month time frame but I did register a couple hard braking events due to towing the boat to the storage unit and also a couple of acceleration events to get the boat moving. 18% discount on it.
saturn was daily. I tried hard to drive it like my gma but in the end scored a 12% discount on it.
these discounts are good for the life of the vehicle/policy. once you replace one, you have to go through the process again based on our policy and snapshot experience.

for me, it was completely worth them knowing what I did. discounted rates were what I probably should have been paying all along but without them tracking, they inflate and make you work for it imo. nothing to back that up other than gut.
fast forward to today and all the above vehicles have been replaced and we are not currently using it. I would NEVER use one on my phone. there are countless stories out there of bad data being sent up. we may explore it again in the future but right now we feel pretty good about our rates so no reason to invite them into our life again.

on a related note, if you're not shopping insurance every few years, there are usually bigger gains to be had swapping companies than doing stuff like this every couple of years. no reason to stay loyal to an "agent" if you don't have claims. my last auto claim was 1998.