[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by 396ssrat

I suspect uber will be less expensive than an electric self driving car. If you have to be bored to tears then Uber is a great choice.

As of 2019, perhaps. But maybe not such a great choice today, given Covid-19 and an unknowable number of variants.


Norm

[Crushin_LT1]

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

As of 2019, perhaps. But maybe not such a great choice today, given Covid-19 and an unknowable number of variants.


Norm

We were tracking something like thousands of variants this time last year. None of them are truly concerning unless you're trying to sell newspapers or keep/maintain power.


Uber/Lyft are minimal concern, if you see someone who is openly sick - sure don't get in the car/pick them up, otherwise....

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by FarmerFran

Think bigger. Software, aftermarket motors...come on man

Aftermarket motors essentially puts you at the engine swap level, which is well beyond what most ICE enthusiasts ever really get into, beyond even a heads-cam-intake swap which is itself past what the average enthusiast gets involved with (wheels, tires, exhaust, and appearance).

I didn't mind doing my own tuning for an aftermarket EFI, but that was a means to an end and only part of a larger project. Not the entire project by itself. And really, it only amounted to revising a couple of maps and a few curves for various fuel corrections. It wasn't a matter of writing the actual code, or making sure it still played nice with anything else in the car.


Norm

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by Crushin_LT1

We were tracking something like thousands of variants this time last year. None of them are truly concerning unless you're trying to sell newspapers or keep/maintain power.

It doesn't matter if there's only a couple of variants or thousands of them, given that we still don't have any of them under control yet . . .

Uber/Lyft are minimal concern, if you see someone who is openly sick - sure don't get in the car/pick them up, otherwise....

I wasn't talking about the uber/lyft driver himself. I was thinking about the passengers who would be getting in his ride having no idea how many of the previous passengers were infected but either asymptomatic or pre-symptomatic. Like I said, my own car I have some control over the cleanliness of.


Norm

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by FarmerFran

i am personally excited about it. I have been in tech since I graduated school for Electronics. Many many moons ago. I thrive on tech, in phones, cars, PCs, TVs it is everywhere and I am excited.

For me, it's closer to "Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler.". Said by somebody far smarter than I.

So while I do see the advantage of using tech for some things, I'm opposed to so many things needing to be done using high-tech complexity.

EFI, sure, as there's no way a human can keep up with fueling and ignition in real time. Even carburetors and points-ignition systems were doing that much for us.

But going through a BCM to get my car's horn to blow? Or politely speaking to Alexa to turn on the lights when I can damn well flip the switch myself when I walk into the room? Gimme a break.


Norm

[cellsafemode]

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

Aftermarket motors essentially puts you at the engine swap level, which is well beyond what most ICE enthusiasts ever really get into, beyond even a heads-cam-intake swap which is itself past what the average enthusiast gets involved with (wheels, tires, exhaust, and appearance).

I didn't mind doing my own tuning for an aftermarket EFI, but that was a means to an end and only part of a larger project. Not the entire project by itself. And really, it only amounted to revising a couple of maps and a few curves for various fuel corrections. It wasn't a matter of writing the actual code, or making sure it still played nice with anything else in the car.


Norm

Aftermarket engines on an EV level would be less than engine swaps in an ICE setup by far. We're talking drop-in replacements where the mechanics of the motor can be upgraded without altering how the rest of the car interacts with it in many cases. And even just that kind of drop-in change would/could make performance differences even without any change to tuning.

This would often be something easier done by a company or person who does it all the time than to diy yourself. Though you could diy it yourself if you want. But it's a thing that's much more convenient in EV land ...than suggesting the same kind of thing for an ICE setup.

That's one of the benefits of EV motors being so much less complex than an ICE engine. they can be refurbed and unless something mechanically breaks on one of the few non-replaceable parts ...modified and re-used over and over. Core charges would be a thing. Shipping would be insane, but there would be more places offering the service since there's less investment needed to do the work.

Of course, all of that depends on any performance aftermarket existing for new cars in the future. If manufacturers are allowed to continue encrypting parts and hiding servicing vehicles behind expensive subscription based approved-partner setups then we've already entered the appliance era and we're all stuck either going illegal or shrinking down to only the most hardcore that gut their cars and replace with custom off-the-shelf or old repurposed parts that came before everything was locked down (ice or ev)

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by cellsafemode

Aftermarket engines on an EV level would be less than engine swaps in an ICE setup by far. We're talking drop-in replacements where the mechanics of the motor can be upgraded without altering how the rest of the car interacts with it in many cases. And even just that kind of drop-in change would/could make performance differences even without any change to tuning.

Less involved? Maybe, depending on accessibility. But it's still a bigger job than most enthusiasts ever contemplate. I've done a few engine/powertrain replacements and swaps, and honestly I wouldn't be comfortable working with what, 800-volt wiring. Not just for reasons of personal safety while doing the actual work, either. I'd rather piece together a fussy exhaust system and re-plumb a fuel line or two.

Just so you know, I'm comfortable enough working with house wiring.

This would often be something easier done by a company or person who does it all the time than to diy yourself. Though you could diy it yourself if you want. But it's a thing that's much more convenient in EV land ...than suggesting the same kind of thing for an ICE setup.

You need to know that I am enough of a DIY'er that paying somebody else to do a job for me is hardly ever my first thought. The attitude that first looks at finding somebody to do a job for me just isn't there. Though as I have gotten older, I didn't do the last roofing job. And we did have a crew come in to cut down a couple of large trees where 40 years ago I would not have thought twice about cutting them down myself. I've got plans for a Tremec swap that I still intend to do myself.

Of course, all of that depends on any performance aftermarket existing for new cars in the future. If manufacturers are allowed to continue encrypting parts and hiding servicing vehicles behind expensive subscription based approved-partner setups then we've already entered the appliance era and we're all stuck either going illegal or shrinking down to only the most hardcore that gut their cars and replace with custom off-the-shelf or old repurposed parts that came before everything was locked down (ice or ev)

I wouldn't want to go back to carburetors and HEI-style ignition systems, but . . .


Norm

[Crushin_LT1]

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

It doesn't matter if there's only a couple of variants or thousands of them, given that we still don't have any of them under control yet . . .



I wasn't talking about the uber/lyft driver himself. I was thinking about the passengers who would be getting in his ride having no idea how many of the previous passengers were infected but either asymptomatic or pre-symptomatic. Like I said, my own car I have some control over the cleanliness of.


Norm

We probably won't ever have them under control and we've known that since the beginning.


Asymptomatic folks are known as healthy folks and are not known to spread COVID and are not known to be drivers of epidemics.


This is also not the venue and I urge you to take appropriate precaution to ensure you are adequately managing your risk and following applicable laws.

[cellsafemode]

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

You need to know that I am enough of a DIY'er that paying somebody else to do a job for me is hardly ever my first thought. The attitude that first looks at finding somebody to do a job for me just isn't there. Though as I have gotten older, I didn't do the last roofing job. And we did have a crew come in to cut down a couple of large trees where 40 years ago I would not have thought twice about cutting them down myself. I've got plans for a Tremec swap that I still intend to do myself.



I wouldn't want to go back to carburetors and HEI-style ignition systems, but . . .


Norm

Being scared of electricity comes from not understanding how it works. You certainly wouldn't want people who have no clue mucking around it but the people who work on power lines aren't special. It's just not common knowledge to most people how to play around high voltage.


And i'm not suggesting you have to take your car in to get something swapped, i'm suggesting it's more like your tranny swap ... You didn't take your old transmission out of your car, rebuild/change it's guts and then put it back together. You bought a transmission that had already been built and are going to swap out your current one for it.


Obviously that's the happy path. The realist in me still says that our days of modifying new cars is coming to a quick end and it was and will have done so even if EV's weren't in the picture.

it'll be aesthetic mods only or playing with old stuff unless i'm happily proven wrong by some miracle of customer focused legislation.

[Crushin_LT1]

When EVs eventually become accessible to the masses and equal ICE cars in usability, accessibility, performance, range, I will happily take one up. Nothing against them, but they are toys for the wealthy and status symbols as it stands.

[cellsafemode]

Originally Posted by Crushin_LT1

When EVs eventually become accessible to the masses and equal ICE cars in usability, accessibility, performance, range, I will happily take one up. Nothing against them, but they are toys for the wealthy and status symbols as it stands.

the same could be said for 500hp 2 seater cars.

[Petrol Head]

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

I wouldn't want to go back to carburetors and HEI-style ignition systems, but . . .


Norm

Carburetors are great until emission controls complicated everything with them. NASCAR stayed with them until about 2013 and even now, use only a modified version of the digital fuel injection system actually designed in the early 80s for the 368 Cadillac Eldorado.

[cellsafemode]

Originally Posted by Petrol Head

Carburetors are great until emission controls complicated everything with them. NASCAR stayed with them until about 2013 and even now, use only a modified version of the digital fuel injection system actually designed in the early 80s for the 368 Cadillac Eldorado.

carbs are not great, they're just cheap and fully mechanical in nature (ignoring tbi-types) that require no external controller to manage. They have issues dealing with temperature extremes (being hard to start in the cold if setup to run good in the heat and vice versa). They are not efficient fuel users (not considering emissions here but fuel costs and power creation).

nascar's part choices are not connected with best for the job. They're what they are for a variety of verifiable control and safety (not making too much power) reasons so the races are less about the cars and more about the drivers.

[Petrol Head]

Originally Posted by cellsafemode

carbs are not great, they're just cheap and fully mechanical in nature (ignoring tbi-types) that require no external controller to manage. They have issues dealing with temperature extremes (being hard to start in the cold if setup to run good in the heat and vice versa). They are not efficient fuel users (not considering emissions here but fuel costs and power creation).

nascar's part choices are not connected with best for the job. They're what they are for a variety of verifiable control and safety (not making too much power) reasons so the races are less about the cars and more about the drivers.

You can tune a carb to run well in all weather, and if you know what you’re doing there’s nothing wrong with them.

Your idea that they’re not great probably comes from just bolting it on and wondering why it runs like crap, and then trying to start a cold one in the middle of winter by pumping the accelerator 50 times

A good carb tuned properly is every bit as good as fuel injection. Just not as good on fuel or as low in emissions.