[Doin It For Dale]

Originally Posted by motorhead

I love have people think the Gen6 Camaro is a lightweight sports car. While it's lighter than the Gen5, it's still a tank. So now we're comparing it to Hondas just because it comes with a 4banger option? Maybe GM should kill it. What a shame.

I'd buy a Civic Si over a 4-banger Camaro. That car is fantastic.

[Gen6_1Le]

Originally Posted by motorhead

I'll be amazed if the 2019 SS helps the situation. Although millennials are starting to make enough money for toys. Maybe that is what GM is banking on. Someone should be looking at what Fiat is doing with the Challenger and take note. A chassis design that has been out since 2005 is still kicking ass heading into 2019. That's funny.

If those Challengers could take a turn like they sell we may have something, but how many it sells is meaningless, you can have them. People are happy with the image over total performance .

[Snrub]

Originally Posted by motorhead

I love have people think the Gen6 Camaro is a lightweight sports car. While it's lighter than the Gen5, it's still a tank. So now we're comparing it to Hondas just because it comes with a 4banger option? Maybe GM should kill it. What a shame.

The I4 is 3300lbs, V6 3400lbs. That's not lightweight, but it's competitive with sports cars like the 370Z. I think it's more fun to drive than the 2700lbs FRS/86/BRZ. What a shame.

Let's be frank, the Camaro is never going to win against people who like to drive Challengers and Mustangs. Those people don't care about driving dynamics. The winning play is to try to broaden the customer appeal.

[NW-99SS]

Originally Posted by motorhead

I love have people think the Gen6 Camaro is a lightweight sports car. While it's lighter than the Gen5, it's still a tank. So now we're comparing it to Hondas just because it comes with a 4banger option? Maybe GM should kill it. What a shame.

It's the lightest of the pony cars at the moment...so other than Euro and Imports, there aren't any other lighter options except a Corvette.

[motorhead]

Originally Posted by Gen6_1Le

If those Challengers could take a turn like they sell we may have something, but how many it sells is meaningless, you can have them. People are happy with the image over total performance .

Well, that is where just about everyone including GM is not getting it. They drive as good as any other car on the road today for the street, are more practical and have things people want. Most people don't care how fast a car will run at VIR or anywhere else. That means nothing going to the movies or on vacation. Say whatever you want ,but facts don't lie. Fiat is giving people what they want with an old design. I don't care two shits about how well a car goes around a road course ,and I'm not alone. It means nothing going down the highway on a Sunday afternoon. Fiat figured this out. I drove cars from the 60's, 70's. You want to talk about handling? Lol

These cars today are all good. Guys like you make it sound like sending anything other than a Camaro off into a corner will mean instant death. That just isn't so.

[DorkMissile]

There are a lot of things that can influence the "sale" of a car. Terms, financing, rebates, supplier discounts, fleet sales (there are some in my company that drive Mustang fleet / company cars), options,. etc....... none of which define if the car itself is worth owning or not.

I personally came close to buying a Mustang GT in 2017, and in the end just couldn't pull the trigger. It felt like a $15k car with a good engine, horrible transmission (manual), with a Fusion interior.

IMO in order to get something worth owning in a Mustang you start at the Perf Pack 2 car (which still has the Getrag trans) which costs more money than a 1LE1SS, and it still is not a real refined setup.

I could care less how many Mustangs or Chargers they sell, too many variables influence the transaction in the end

[Corvette_Mike]

I am a Chevy person. I only buy Chevrolet products. When I shop I only look at chevrolets. I don't care what other people say. I am enjoying my 2018 SS.

[Aragorn]

Originally Posted by motorhead

I'll be amazed if the 2019 SS helps the situation. Although millennials are starting to make enough money for toys. Maybe that is what GM is banking on. Someone should be looking at what Fiat is doing with the Challenger and take note. A chassis design that has been out since 2005 is still kicking ass heading into 2019. That's funny.

I could see them going for the 4cyl turbo.

[Snrub]

Originally Posted by motorhead

Well, that is where just about everyone including GM is not getting it. They drive as good as any other car on the road today for the street, are more practical and have things people want. Most people don't care how fast a car will run at VIR or anywhere else. That means nothing going to the movies or on vacation. Say whatever you want ,but facts don't lie. Fiat is giving people what they want with an old design. I don't care two shits about how well a car goes around a road course ,and I'm not alone. It means nothing going down the highway on a Sunday afternoon. Fiat figured this out. I drove cars from the 60's, 70's. You want to talk about handling? Lol

These cars today are all good. Guys like you make it sound like sending anything other than a Camaro off into a corner will mean instant death. That just isn't so.

Handling is FUN. A car which communicates with its driver creates enjoyment. IMO it's far more important than the absolute cornering ability.

Some people buy cars for utility, some for looks or image or some combination of factors. There's a place in the market for lots of different types of vehicles. If we're judging things by the 60s then perhaps the perfect vehicle is the Odyssey or Pacifica. They have lots of utility, have a comfortable ride look as good or better than 80% of the vehicles out there, out handle and out brake every car from the 60s and have a reasonable amount of thrust. Maybe what most people really need is the Corolla. Super reliable, practical/frequently usable size, great fuel economy. No one "needs" anything the Camaro has to offer.

[90503]

Originally Posted by Aragorn

I could see them going for the 4cyl turbo.

The 4cyl turbo has already been in Camaros for a few years now....The OP and the article discuss that the 4 will put Camaro "back in the race" with a 1LE version....I doubt it....The issue they believe is price, and a more expensive 1LE model isn't at the low entry level end...

Like I said earlier, if the 4cyl was the answer to Camaro's sales troubles, the 4cyl would have made a huge difference already in the previous two years or so, and it hasn't.


Look for Camaro and Chevy to keep chasing their tail until the 7thGen comes out. It will need to be radically different. Nothing wrong with the 5th or 6th Gens at all, but if they only look at sales numbers, the logical thing would be to make the Camaro a Cross-over, SUV, Econo Box.

The Camaro should stay on the top of the performance race, not necessarily the sales race....If they want to bump up sales, make a 1LS Camaro with a V-8 for 30K....Lower the price for a V-8 Camaro, don't raise it for a turbo 4....

[MackSteelPrivateEye]

Hey Chevy...take a hint from this....do we need to pound it into your brain about advertising and promotion????

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/f...110000841.html

[torqueaddict]

Originally Posted by motorhead

Well, that is where just about everyone including GM is not getting it. They drive as good as any other car on the road today for the street, are more practical and have things people want. Most people don't care how fast a car will run at VIR or anywhere else. That means nothing going to the movies or on vacation. Say whatever you want ,but facts don't lie. Fiat is giving people what they want with an old design. I don't care two shits about how well a car goes around a road course ,and I'm not alone. It means nothing going down the highway on a Sunday afternoon. Fiat figured this out. I drove cars from the 60's, 70's. You want to talk about handling? Lol

These cars today are all good. Guys like you make it sound like sending anything other than a Camaro off into a corner will mean instant death. That just isn't so.

You're right in that more people are choosing the Challenger for the reasons outlined, but at the end of the day, we as enthusiasts do care about what the Camaro has to offer in terms of performance, and that's a crucial point.

GMs problem from a sales standpoint, is that we are small group. Still, I would not want much changed regarding the Camaro for the sake of sales. A little more space and power, sure, but nothing drastic.

Dropping the price on the lower end models would help for sure, but if they're looking for Challenger like sales, they'll need a complete redesign. If they want to keep the enthusiasts and appeal to the public, they just may just need two separate platforms.

[MackSteelPrivateEye]

Originally Posted by SecondZ28

It's true. Since it's so close to the 5th Gen styling, it's stale and long in the tooth to potential buyers. It's hasn't aged as gracefully as the Challenger.

LOL

[MackSteelPrivateEye]

Originally Posted by motorhead

I love have people think the Gen6 Camaro is a lightweight sports car. While it's lighter than the Gen5, it's still a tank. So now we're comparing it to Hondas just because it comes with a 4banger option? Maybe GM should kill it. What a shame.

A tank?? Compared to what? Your Honda Civic. The 2017 have basically the same dimensions of the 1st and 2nd Gen camaro. Nobody wants a camaro the size of a Civic.