[LESS1]

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes

Yeah, I'd be extremely surprised if the Z06 matches the GT3 RS.

I can understand your skepticism and would add that as someone else previously pointed out it wouldn't be the first time the lowly Vette has been in front of Rennesport cars. Time will tell, and I will be surprised if C8Z fails to surpass GT3RS. And if recent history is an indication of what we can expect... C7Z surpassed C6ZR1 and if C8Z can pull that off then a lot of people will be very happy and GM will build a lot of C8Z cars!

[JamesNoBrakes]

Originally Posted by LESS1

I can understand your skepticism and would add that as someone else previously pointed out it wouldn't be the first time the lowly Vette has been in front of Rennesport cars. Time will tell, and I will be surprised if C8Z fails to surpass GT3RS. And if recent history is an indication of what we can expect... C7Z surpassed C6ZR1 and if C8Z can pull that off then a lot of people will be very happy and GM will build a lot of C8Z cars!

Doubt it, although C8Z at a very high level, the GT3 RS is just next level...a few levels beyond really. C8Z is still an everyday car. GTR RS is like the Lambo STO.

I'm no porsche fan-boy, but they are pouring tons of development R&D into the GT3 RS and going to far greater lengths. They are stretching the inferior rear engine chassis as far as they can, but every time someone comes out with something like a C8, it ups the bar, they have to push it even further. They will, they will do whatever they have to so they can keep the idea of the 911 alive, but it will run out at some point. Will it run out before electric cars take over? That's the real question.

[L78toLT1]

What are the chances I will be able to sell my ZLE for 85% of MSRP in four years? I probably can’t even do that now.[/QUOTE]

The times, they are a changing. I'll bet you could do better than 85% on your ZLE now, and from the looks of it, a decent ZLE may never be available for less than 85%. Of course, the Cayman will probably bring well over MSRP in perpetuity

[DaveC113]

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes

C8Z is still an everyday car.

"Everyday" car with 345/21 rear tires and 670 hp? Ummm, ok...

[TRZ06]

Thought I would update this thread. I have since 86ed the Cup 2 tires in favor of the Goodyear F1 SC3 tires that come stock on the SS 1LE and ZL1.

That transformed the GT4 in many ways. 95% of the chassis moving around is all but GONE!! Cup 2's just have really soft sidewalls and I had no clue that was where most of my issues stemmed from.

Moving to the SC3's was like gong from a rear end on rubber bushings and moving to a hard mounted rear-end, it made that much of a difference.

Also, maybe on track the Cup 2's are a midge quicker, but one the street I am able to match all my corner speeds and lateral G's as I was on the Cup 2's. In fact there are a few places where the SC3's are faster because the lateral movements are gone so you can press on more.

[DaveC113]

Originally Posted by TRZ06

Thought I would update this thread. I have since 86ed the Cup 2 tires in favor of the Goodyear F1 SC3 tires that come stock on the SS 1LE and ZL1.

That transformed the GT4 in many ways. 95% of the chassis moving around is all but GONE!! Cup 2's just have really soft sidewalls and I had no clue that was where most of my issues stemmed from.

Moving to the SC3's was like gong from a rear end on rubber bushings and moving to a hard mounted rear-end, it made that much of a difference.

Also, maybe on track the Cup 2's are a midge quicker, but one the street I am able to match all my corner speeds and lateral G's as I was on the Cup 2's. In fact there are a few places where the SC3's are faster because the lateral movements are gone so you can press on more.

Yeah, SC3s are great tires once warm enough.

Any regrets or advise in buying a GT4? I am considering ordering one in a year or two. I was considering ordering a ZLE now, but will just keep my SLE and maybe do heads/cam at some point. Will be nice to have both a SLE and GT4...

[TRZ06]

Originally Posted by DaveC113

Yeah, SC3s are great tires once warm enough.

Any regrets or advise in buying a GT4? I am considering ordering one in a year or two. I was considering ordering a ZLE now, but will just keep my SLE and maybe do heads/cam at some point. Will be nice to have both a SLE and GT4...

As I have the GT4 set-up now, NO, I am loving it now. The ONLY thing that the SS 1LE has on my current set-up is just on the larger bumps you find on the freeway that you hit at speed, the MRC and longer spring travel on the 1LE is just better able to cope with that. But that is more a function of a muscle car with good spring travel VS a sports car with less spring travel.

In stock form, and if you plan to stay stock in the GT4, I would choose the ZLE over the GT4. The GT4 is not well sorted stock. It needs a lot of suspension work and supporting suspension pieces to make it compentent when driven in anger on anything less than smooth pavement.

With the exception of a few suspension pieces, I have basically replaced the entire suspension on my GT4.

That list includes...

MCS 2-way remote dampers, springs, rear toe links, front bumps steer kit, adjustable caster pucks, alignment, SC3 tires are all needed to make the GT4 feel great (when the roads are not smooth)

[DaveC113]

Originally Posted by TRZ06

As I have the GT4 set-up now, NO, I am loving it now. The ONLY thing that the SS 1LE has on my current set-up is just on the larger bumps you find on the freeway that you hit at speed, the MRC and longer spring travel on the 1LE is just better able to cope with that. But that is more a function of a muscle car with good spring travel VS a sports car with less spring travel.

In stock form, and if you plan to stay stock in the GT4, I would choose the ZLE over the GT4. The GT4 is not well sorted stock. It needs a lot of suspension work and supporting suspension pieces to make it compentent when driven in anger on anything less than smooth pavement.

With the exception of a few suspension pieces, I have basically replaced the entire suspension on my GT4.

That list includes...

MCS 2-way remote dampers, springs, rear toe links, front bumps steer kit, adjustable caster pucks, alignment, SC3 tires are all needed to make the GT4 feel great (when the roads are not smooth)

Thanks! I'm not sure I'll need the car to handle bumps well, would probably trailer it to the track and autox events mostly, and I don't drive too fast on the street. GT4s are great at both track and autox, which is nice, many cars only excel at one.

ZLE is tempting but I think I'm going to keep my SLE, it has a lot of handling mods and is heads and cam away from keeping up with a stock ZLE without needing a supercharger. GT4 w/PDK is a totally different car and I can't imagine it depreciating much, and my business can buy it so I can justify it a little easier. In the past I've spent too much cash on building cars, that's money you'll never recover, if I can buy a car like a GT4 that I can be happy with keeping mostly stock, and it may even appreciate all the better. I'm sure my SLE will appreciate eventually too, but it has 35k miles on it already. They are such good cars it's tempting to trade my '18 in and order a new one.

Z06 Vette is also tempting but it's huge and heavy vs the GT4, would probably cost 2x as much in consumables to drive on track and it's width is unwieldy for autox but it'll likely be very fast. IMO if buying you need Z07 and cf wheels, making it cost closer to a GT3 or GT4 RS, both pretty compelling choices as well...

[NinthWave]

Originally Posted by DaveC113

Yeah, SC3s are great tires once warm enough.

Any regrets or advise in buying a GT4? I am considering ordering one in a year or two. I was considering ordering a ZLE now, but will just keep my SLE and maybe do heads/cam at some point. Will be nice to have both a SLE and GT4...

Just 2c worth, it may not be possible to order a new GT4 in a year or two. It's difficult to get an allocation now and some buyers are paying ADms. There are reports the Cayman/Boxster will go electric in the next gen. Not sure what that means for the GTs on that platform. Buying used may be the only option.

I had a 981 GT4 for a few years and it was a great car. only suspension mods I did were shims in the front to gain camber and rear toe arms also for camber/toe. Fun car on track.

[TRZ06]

Originally Posted by DaveC113

Thanks! I'm not sure I'll need the car to handle bumps well, would probably trailer it to the track and autox events mostly, and I don't drive too fast on the street. GT4s are great at both track and autox, which is nice, many cars only excel at one.

ZLE is tempting but I think I'm going to keep my SLE, it has a lot of handling mods and is heads and cam away from keeping up with a stock ZLE without needing a supercharger. GT4 w/PDK is a totally different car and I can't imagine it depreciating much, and my business can buy it so I can justify it a little easier. In the past I've spent too much cash on building cars, that's money you'll never recover, if I can buy a car like a GT4 that I can be happy with keeping mostly stock, and it may even appreciate all the better. I'm sure my SLE will appreciate eventually too, but it has 35k miles on it already. They are such good cars it's tempting to trade my '18 in and order a new one.

Z06 Vette is also tempting but it's huge and heavy vs the GT4, would probably cost 2x as much in consumables to drive on track and it's width is unwieldy for autox but it'll likely be very fast. IMO if buying you need Z07 and cf wheels, making it cost closer to a GT3 or GT4 RS, both pretty compelling choices as well...

The GT4 is great on tracks, smooth roads, and on the twisty back roads. Where the GT4 falls behind is on real world crappy CA roads, the strut rear and limited suspension travel becomes a liability in those situations.

It is great, until it isn't. It's more focused and has a narrower operating range in regards to road conditions.

That was the greatest asset that the SS 1LE had, it felt just as solid at 130 MPH as 60 MPH, regardless of the surface conditions. That does spoil you.

The GT4 though is better in every other way... drive train, lateral G limits, scalpel feel, light weight, interior quality, sounds, and it just pulls harder especially in PDK form.

[Checkmate1]

Originally Posted by TRZ06

As I have the GT4 set-up now, NO, I am loving it now. The ONLY thing that the SS 1LE has on my current set-up is just on the larger bumps you find on the freeway that you hit at speed, the MRC and longer spring travel on the 1LE is just better able to cope with that. But that is more a function of a muscle car with good spring travel VS a sports car with less spring travel.

In stock form, and if you plan to stay stock in the GT4, I would choose the ZLE over the GT4. The GT4 is not well sorted stock. It needs a lot of suspension work and supporting suspension pieces to make it compentent when driven in anger on anything less than smooth pavement.

With the exception of a few suspension pieces, I have basically replaced the entire suspension on my GT4.

That list includes...

MCS 2-way remote dampers, springs, rear toe links, front bumps steer kit, adjustable caster pucks, alignment, SC3 tires are all needed to make the GT4 feel great (when the roads are not smooth)

I have to ask, how much money and time did it take you on modding the GT4 to get to where you like it now?

[TRZ06]

Originally Posted by Checkmate1

I have to ask, how much money and time did it take you on modding the GT4 to get to where you like it now?

All in, including labor, install, and a few iterations of alignment and canister pressure changes... Around $18K, give or take $1K

The biggest expenses were the MCS 2-way remote dampers and the install labor, including corner balancing.

It took me about 9 mths of trying different combinations of compression, rebound, canister pressures, and swaybar settings to get it to my liking for street use. Each change you make, you need to drive on it for a few weeks and throw as many situations at it as possible, then make a change and repeat.

I learned a lot in the process and got a greater appreciation of how detailed suspension tuning can be.

The final piece of the puzzle for me was swapping out the Cup 2 tires for the SC3 tires, which made a big lateral stability change as well as some positive vertical motion changes and that opened up a couple more compression/rebound settings that were just too soft using the Cup 2's with their soft sidewalls.

[Checkmate1]

Originally Posted by TRZ06

All in, including labor, install, and a few iterations of alignment and canister pressure changes... Around $18K, give or take $1K

The biggest expenses were the MCS 2-way remote dampers and the install labor, including corner balancing.

It took me about 9 mths of trying different combinations of compression, rebound, canister pressures, and swaybar settings to get it to my liking for street use. Each change you make, you need to drive on it for a few weeks and throw as many situations at it as possible, then make a change and repeat.

I learned a lot in the process and got a greater appreciation of how detailed suspension tuning can be.

The final piece of the puzzle for me was swapping out the Cup 2 tires for the SC3 tires, which made a big lateral stability change as well as some positive vertical motion changes and that opened up a couple more compression/rebound settings that were just too soft using the Cup 2's with their soft sidewalls.

Part of me hopes you get a chance to own / drive a lot of miles in a ZLE. As someone who pushes the car repeatedly on backroads and track days - the Alpha chassis married to the 'consistent' suspension response of the DSSV's make it a formidable and confidence inspiring stablemate. The stock adjustability (Camber/Swaybars etc.) makes life so much easier and provides a lot of flavor.

My 2 drives of my friend's GT4 had me feeling deflated as it was supposed to be my logical step up. Wierd thing is the 3850 lb ZLE was so much more fun, visceral and confidence inspiring on the backroads (I am not a slow driver). The ZLE simply feels like a buttoned down and more powerful ND Miata.

People keep referring to the 'harsh' or 'firm' ride of the suspension but it has everything to do with the springs NOT the DSSV's. That being said - a simple change of the GY3R (stiff sidewalls) to a PS4S or Falken RT660 made this man very happy.

I am convinced the Bill Wise /Al Oppenheiser honed the car to deliver utmost confidence. Heck - if it works at the Nurburgring...you know it's special!

Here's a link to an article most people have never read about the genius of the DSSV suspension - https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a1...ers-explained/ That fact that we get this tech on a car under $100k is quite a treat, keep in mind even the new C8 Z06/Z07 are compromised from a track prowess standpoint because their first owner customers (demographic of 55-72) need a more cushy and less purposeful ride. The ZL1/1LE pushed the envelope and is clearly an American version of the GT3.

I hope Porsche fixes some of the glaring flaws with the GT4 or are they going to keep feeding into the conspiracy of having the GT4 also have a minor handicap to keep the 911 GT3/RS elevated....

[TRZ06]

Originally Posted by Checkmate1

Part of me hopes you get a chance to own / drive a lot of miles in a ZLE. As someone who pushes the car repeatedly on backroads and track days - the Alpha chassis married to the 'consistent' suspension response of the DSSV's make it a formidable and confidence inspiring stablemate. The stock adjustability (Camber/Swaybars etc.) makes life so much easier and provides a lot of flavor.

My 2 drives of my friend's GT4 had me feeling deflated as it was supposed to be my logical step up. Wierd thing is the 38xx ZLE was so much more fun, visceral and confidence inspiring on the backroads (I am not a slow driver). The ZLE simply feels like a buttoned down and more powerful ND Miata.

People keep referring to the 'harsh' or 'firm' ride of the suspension but it has everything to do with the springs NOT the DSSV's. That being said - a simple change of the GY3R (stiff sidewalls) to a PS4S or Falken RT660 made this man very happy.

I am convinced the Bill Wise /Al Oppenheiser honed the car to deliver utmost confidence. Heck - if it works at the Nurburgring...you know it's special!

I hope Porsche fixes some of the glaring flaws with the GT4 or are they going to keep feeding into the conspiracy of having the GT4 also have a minor handicap to keep the 911 GT3/RS elevated....

I will never go the ZLE route. With the exception of the things I already mentioned, the GT4 is a better overall experience.

The mid-engine rotation, the light weight & low center of gravity feel with direct feedback, the PDK banging off up and downshifts at lightning speed, the flat 6 singing up to its 8K redline (a Kline exhaust system is coming in a few weeks), the interior quality and feel of being in something premium, etc, etc, etc. It all adds up.

The GT4 is flawed in 2 main areas... strut rear suspension and PASM dampers that just do not come close to MRC's range.

After experiencing the mid-engine platform, I do not think I could go back to a front engine layout.

Here is my new lateral G max on my local on ramp near me that I use for testing, this is after the SC3 tire swap and new compression/rebound settings. The most I EVER saw in my SS 1LE was 1.25 and that was only on new tires.

This is what light weight and mid-engine can do for you...