[Lazerbrainz2k3]

Originally Posted by Gen6_1Le

When the 7th gen comes out its gonna have to be a Camaro like none before it , kinda on the lines of the Mid engine Corvette. New engines and new models ,have to put the past behind us . The SS has been used for a long time and on too many cars over the years , has even been a its own car . It means very little anymore and i think Chevy would do better if they just rename it , i always liked the sounds of a GT Camaro , which nowadays is a very accurate name also. A twin turbo V6 would be much more costly then a LT2 but may be a much better performance car also . I think as prices go they will only go up from this generation but they could close the gap between price and performance much better in the next generation .Maybe it's time we start a 7th Gen section here .

Chevy did insult the SS badge by putting it on everything from the HHR to last generation Monte Carlos to Trailblazers, it's true. But the one (remaining) model where performance and heritage makes keeping that badge on it worthwhile is the Camaro. To remove it - especially in favor of a badge most closely identified with its main enemy - would bee a horrible idea. To take away the at least borderline affordable V8 upgrade in favor of a TT V6 would be worse still.

I agree with SnakeEyeSS, if you're going to "put the past behind us" to the point that the SS badge goes away, put an end to the Camaro name while you're at it.

[Gen6_1Le]

Originally Posted by Lazerbrainz2k3

Chevy did insult the SS badge by putting it on everything from the HHR to last generation Monte Carlos to Trailblazers, it's true. But the one (remaining) model where performance and heritage makes keeping that badge on it worthwhile is the Camaro. To remove it - especially in favor of a badge most closely identified with its main enemy - would bee a horrible idea. To take away the at least borderline affordable V8 upgrade in favor of a TT V6 would be worse still.

Chevy stopped making SS Camaros 1972 and didn't start them up again till 2010 , 1996 to 2002 Camaro SS were sent to SLP to be made . The TT V6 would be more of a top of the line performance version not a replacement for the LT2 . I have no clue what Chevy will be putting in the 7th gens but i have a feeling its gonna upset a lot of people .

[Gen6_1Le]

Originally Posted by SnakeEyeSS

Hey, are you the guy that ran Cadillac and Infinity into obscurity?


If they are going to stop using SS, they might as well rename the whole car.

Would you buy a 455 HP V6 SS ?

[Lazerbrainz2k3]

Originally Posted by Gen6_1Le

Would you buy a 455 HP V6 SS ?

Not when Ford is churning out a 460hp V8 Mustang GT and Dodge a 485hp Hemi.

In a segment as heritage- inspired as this, I'd happily go for competitors who keep with that heritage over one which abandons it for no good reason

[Baldilocks01SS]

They should have Pininfarina style the next Camaro.

[Gen6_1Le]

Originally Posted by Lazerbrainz2k3

Not when Ford is churning out a 460hp V8 Mustang GT and Dodge a 485hp Hemi.

In a segment as heritage- inspired as this, I'd happily go for competitors who keep with that heritage over one which abandons it for no good reason

The manual transmission was a part of the Camaro heritage and it’s going away because of better technology in the automatic, the same thing will happen to the large V8s , they will go away . Since most people don’t know how to shift their own gears it’s no big deal , but let’s see what happens when the V8s go away to smaller faster engines that are coming, and some even may be hybrids . I myself look forward to the future of Camaro , and with the new technology the heritage will live on another 50 years.

[Gen6_1Le]

Originally Posted by Baldilocks01SS

They should have Pininfarina style the next Camaro.

I would rather see Robert Melville come back to GM and do the next Camaro,but as long as it’s no more retro crap I don’t care who designs it .

[396ssrat]

Originally Posted by Gen6_1Le

The manual transmission was a part of the Camaro heritage and it’s going away because of better technology in the automatic, the same thing will happen to the large V8s , they will go away . Since most people don’t know how to shift their own gears it’s no big deal , but let’s see what happens when the V8s go away to smaller faster engines that are coming, and some even may be hybrids . I myself look forward to the future of Camaro , and with the new technology the heritage will live on another 50 years.

They dropped large V8's years ago.

[Lazerbrainz2k3]

Originally Posted by Gen6_1Le

The manual transmission was a part of the Camaro heritage and it’s going away because of better technology in the automatic, the same thing will happen to the large V8s , they will go away . Since most people don’t know how to shift their own gears it’s no big deal , but let’s see what happens when the V8s go away to smaller faster engines that are coming, and some even may be hybrids . I myself look forward to the future of Camaro , and with the new technology the heritage will live on another 50 years.

You specifically talked about a 455hp V6. Why would anyone want that over a V8 making the same power and probably more torque, and also enjoying the benefits of being naturally aspirated, less complicated and probably generating about the same emissions and fuel economy in real-world driving?

There's also the packaging issue - as has been argued with the Mustang faithful for years, smaller-displacement engines - including V8s - do not necessarily make for smaller physical dimensions - not as much of a problem in a truck or large SUV, but in a sports/pony/muscle car, that does create design and performance tradeoffs. The same is true for a 6 cylinder (almost certainly DOHC & twin turbocharged) you need to compact that enough to fit it under a hood low enough to maximize aerodynamics.

To retire the V8, you need to create an alternative which is a significant improvement in all those regards, otherwise there's no point in doing so because you'll be spending huge amounts of money for R&D on a different engine merely as good as existing technology, while infuriating your core customer base. At present no such alternative has been developed at a price point where it's reasonable in the pony car segment.

[Gen6_1Le]

Originally Posted by Lazerbrainz2k3

You specifically talked about a 455hp V6. Why would anyone want that over a V8 making the same power and probably more torque, and also enjoying the benefits of being naturally aspirated, less complicated and probably generating about the same emissions and fuel economy in real-world driving?

There's also the packaging issue - as has been argued with the Mustang faithful for years, smaller-displacement engines - including V8s - do not necessarily make for smaller physical dimensions - not as much of a problem in a truck or large SUV, but in a sports/pony/muscle car, that does create design and performance tradeoffs. The same is true for a 6 cylinder (almost certainly DOHC & twin turbocharged) you need to compact that enough to fit it under a hood low enough to maximize aerodynamics.

To retire the V8, you need to create an alternative which is a significant improvement in all those regards, otherwise there's no point in doing so because you'll be spending huge amounts of money for R&D on a different engine merely as good as existing technology, while infuriating your core customer base. At present no such alternative has been developed at a price point where it's reasonable in the pony car segment.

The gen 7 i would think is going to be a all new design so that would be a good time to fit such engines . Camaro has a huge advantage as far as R&D goes because Cadillac and Corvette does a lot of it for the Camaro ahead of time .
Price point will be an issue with the gen 7 and they won't be going down in price but i think they could offer new smaller engines with great results ,HP is not going to continue to go up in certain price points ,sooner or later it has to go the other way . What can keep going up is the performance of the car using technology , there is a huge difference in the GM-TH400 to the GM-A10 the engines are going the same way . If the gen 7 Camaro has a 455HP V6 it will out perform the 6th gen SS LT1 and bring new faces to Camaro . Camaro won't survive on the core base it has now it has to push into new technologie. The Camaro V8 buyers now are the smallest group , T4s and V6s are the bulk of sales , it just makes sense to give them more .

[Gen6_1Le]

Originally Posted by 396ssrat

They dropped large V8's years ago.

They were ginormous V8s

[Lazerbrainz2k3]

Originally Posted by Gen6_1Le

The gen 7 i would think is going to be a all new design so that would be a good time to fit such engines . Camaro has a huge advantage as far as R&D goes because Cadillac and Corvette does a lot of it for the Camaro ahead of time .
Price point will be an issue with the gen 7 and they won't be going down in price but i think they could offer new smaller engines with great results ,HP is not going to continue to go up in certain price points ,sooner or later it has to go the other way . What can keep going up is the performance of the car using technology , there is a huge difference in the GM-TH400 to the GM-A10 the engines are going the same way . If the gen 7 Camaro has a 455HP V6 it will out perform the 6th gen SS LT1 and bring new faces to Camaro . Camaro won't survive on the core base it has now it has to push into new technologie. The Camaro V8 buyers now are the smallest group , T4s and V6s are the bulk of sales , it just makes sense to give them more .

Look at the high performance engine development with Cadillac and Corvette. What are they spending their development money on? V8s, that's what. When were you expecting them to start developing these new engines your idea of the 7th gen would require?

You're assuming a lot saying a V6 with equivalent power to the LT1 will outperform the V8. You might see a slight improvement around a track from a minor improvement in weight balance, but using the ATS-V and its engine as an example, how much gain do you really get there? 0.1 seconds faster to 60? The LT1 created a half second improvement over the LS3, so I'm not impressed (and the ATS-V engine has an extra 9 hp over the LT1, so it's not even exactly the same as what you're proposing).

V8 buyers are the smallest group (not a new development), but that is and always has been overwhelmingly a matter of PRICE, not preference for 6 or 4 cylinders over 8 - be honest, how many people have you EVER heard of who'd say with a straight face that all other things being equal they'd take an I4 or V6 over a V8? And you're not giving those buyers more by offering them another sub-8 cylinder engine option but with a price tag that makes the LT1 seem like a bargain - they'll keep buying the base engines like they always have.

A forced induction V6 is newer technology, for sure. But that doesn't automatically make it better technology by any stretch of the imagination. You seem to be taking it on faith that it must be so and therefore something to bring about as soon as possible, because you seem to only offer the old parental standby of "because I said so" as your supporting evidence, and that just won't cut it

[Gen6_1Le]

Originally Posted by Lazerbrainz2k3

Look at the high performance engine development with Cadillac and Corvette. What are they spending their development money on? V8s, that's what. When were you expecting them to start developing these new engines your idea of the 7th gen would require?

You're assuming a lot saying a V6 with equivalent power to the LT1 will outperform the V8. You might see a slight improvement around a track from a minor improvement in weight balance, but using the ATS-V and its engine as an example, how much gain do you really get there? 0.1 seconds faster to 60? The LT1 created a half second improvement over the LS3, so I'm not impressed (and the ATS-V engine has an extra 9 hp over the LT1, so it's not even exactly the same as what you're proposing).

V8 buyers are the smallest group (not a new development), but that is and always has been overwhelmingly a matter of PRICE, not preference for 6 or 4 cylinders over 8 - be honest, how many people have you EVER heard of who'd say with a straight face that all other things being equal they'd take an I4 or V6 over a V8? And you're not giving those buyers more by offering them another sub-8 cylinder engine option but with a price tag that makes the LT1 seem like a bargain - they'll keep buying the base engines like they always have.

A forced induction V6 is newer technology, for sure. But that doesn't automatically make it better technology by any stretch of the imagination. You seem to be taking it on faith that it must be so and therefore something to bring about as soon as possible, because you seem to only offer the old parental standby of "because I said so" as your supporting evidence, and that just won't cut it

As of right now there is no evidence saying the 7th gen Camaro is getting the LT2 V8 ,what if it ends up being the mid engine Corvette exclusive, stranger things has happen . I'm sure more motors like the Cadillac Blackwing will find there way into the Chevy line up in some form in the future and who knows what else they have, but they will be getting smaller . What i do know is its going to take more then just new forms of very old technology to keep up with the future cars . A Camaro with an 500HP LT2 that won't be able to keep up with a performance 6 cylinder hybrid is not going to look very good . All we can do for now is wait and see , soon we will know what the C8 gets as far as engines go ,then Camaro .

[Number 3]

Ok just going to toss this out there. Forget the 3.6TT from the ATS-V. I don’t see GM putting a far more expensive engine in the Camaro that will perform no better than an LT1. I had this same discussion years ago with Target Juechter and that was basically his conclusion, except his challenge was trying to get better FE.

However, the replacement for the NA 3.6 L V6 in the CT5 is a 3.0 TT with the same 330ish HP BUT 400 lbft of torque. That could be a nice addition to the middle ground and certainly be more than competitive with the Mustang.