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Old 12-25-2018, 08:12 AM   #15
Zaxer
 
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Thanks for this comparison. My wife and I enjoy weekend touring in the warmer months, and we currently own a 135i convertible with 6-speed manual and M-Sport package. The steering is the old hydraulic rack, the clutch is good (shifter is meh) and the car has been a lot of fun. Couldn’t agree with you more on steering of the newer BMWs - I also have a DD f30 sedan (328i) and the electric steering has little to no feel of the road. And while the 3-series has gained quite a bit of girth over the years, most others have gained as well. I recently test drove the new Honda Accord sport manual - it was fun but the car is not small in any sense. Next spring we will sell the 135i and move into either a convertible 2018+ Mustang GT (coyote gen 3) or 2016+ Camaro SS. Deciding between the two is a genuine first world problem, but I really do appreciate your insights. Looking forward to driving both!
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Old 12-25-2018, 09:02 AM   #16
Bosse'sBoss

 
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Of those two, the best sport driver's car: Camaro SS without a doubt.
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Old 12-25-2018, 11:58 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bosse'sBoss View Post
Of those two, the best sport driver's car: Camaro SS without a doubt.
I look more forward to driving it than the Mustang GT. Thereís a 2016 2SS convertible with MRC sitting in a dealership 15 miles from my in-laws house right now. Normally we would be home for the holidays, but Iím glad the temptation is not so convenient at the moment!

Must...have...patience.
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Old 12-26-2018, 03:10 PM   #18
cbr1100xx
 
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I test drove another new '18 1SS manual. It's a good car and handles well. Things I didn't like:
1-the shifter seems to vibrate a lot-this was a minor thing but still kind of annoying and seemed a bit unrefined
2-the gearing is tall-1-4 are pretty good gears, 5th and 6th seem too tall. Almost needed to use 4th for any real passing power on the freeway.
3-the throttle response is a bit lazy-Seems like I had to get on the throttle a bit before the car would "respond" to the input.


To throw a wrench into the mix, I drove a couple Dodges:

1-2017 Challenger Scat pack A8 w/10K miles-It was loaded with almost every option. It was good. Good transmission, quick for sure. But felt sort of twitchy on the freeway and very muscle car like as in boaty. I did like the steering feel though.

2-2019 Charger Scat Pack new (base, no options)-The Charger looked enormous b/c it is....200 inches long, 4300+lbs. But somehow it didn't feel that huge when driving it. It felt lighter and easier to drive than the Challenger. Visibility was good as was comfort. What was really awesome is the throttle response. You just tap that accelerator and it lunges forward. The ZF8 in Sport Mode in the Charger was freakin' amazing. That big thing moves and shifts lightning quick. It handles pretty flat for its size too. But as a single guy driving around in it, I felt like I was the captain of the Love Boat....lol.

I wish the Camaro had the Charger's transmission and throttle response.

Anyway, all good cars.
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Old 01-09-2019, 03:44 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cbr1100xx View Post
I test drove another new '18 1SS manual. It's a good car and handles well. Things I didn't like:
1-the shifter seems to vibrate a lot-this was a minor thing but still kind of annoying and seemed a bit unrefined
2-the gearing is tall-1-4 are pretty good gears, 5th and 6th seem too tall. Almost needed to use 4th for any real passing power on the freeway.
3-the throttle response is a bit lazy-Seems like I had to get on the throttle a bit before the car would "respond" to the input.


To throw a wrench into the mix, I drove a couple Dodges:

1-2017 Challenger Scat pack A8 w/10K miles-It was loaded with almost every option. It was good. Good transmission, quick for sure. But felt sort of twitchy on the freeway and very muscle car like as in boaty. I did like the steering feel though.

2-2019 Charger Scat Pack new (base, no options)-The Charger looked enormous b/c it is....200 inches long, 4300+lbs. But somehow it didn't feel that huge when driving it. It felt lighter and easier to drive than the Challenger. Visibility was good as was comfort. What was really awesome is the throttle response. You just tap that accelerator and it lunges forward. The ZF8 in Sport Mode in the Charger was freakin' amazing. That big thing moves and shifts lightning quick. It handles pretty flat for its size too. But as a single guy driving around in it, I felt like I was the captain of the Love Boat....lol.

I wish the Camaro had the Charger's transmission and throttle response.

Anyway, all good cars.
FYI:

The Challenger and Charger 392/scatpack have the SAME EXACT "ZF" TorqueFlite transmission and engine. The challenger is a little lighter and the charger a little more aerodynamic.
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2014 Mustang GT auto DIB 12.8@113 stock, sold
2012 Mustang GT M6 "brembo" 3.73/tune/full exhaust
2012 Camaro SS L99 (Wife's) sold
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Old 01-25-2019, 08:47 AM   #20
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I find it interesting you are cross shopping Camaro>BMW and haven't touched a Caddie yet.


BMW advice: Lease and get an M-sport. Also, no matter what car you decide on, make sure you test drive and enjoy the 525xDrive and x3/x5 vehicles... I guarantee you will be spending some time in them as loaners while the car you bought is in for repairs.
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Old 03-21-2019, 07:23 PM   #21
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I drove a Mini JCW Countryman that just left like a SUV like a RAV 4 or something, a WRX STI which I liked and left similar to the Camaro but with way better vision but 100hp off and less capable, an Alfa Romeo Giulia which the dealers all thought I was crazy wanting in RWD and a Alfa 4C which is a little hardcore gocart I really liked but they were pushing my budget, I avoided BMW due to their lack of steering feel. I wound up getting my SS 1LE and am very happy, not only was it cheaper than anything else but also way faster. One thing a mustang had better is vision. Only negatives of the Camaro are the trunk and the really imprecise buttons and switches inside.
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Old 03-23-2019, 08:38 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cbr1100xx View Post
Caddie? No thanks.

Iím done anyway. Ended up with a Ď19 Mustang GT base 6spd, ruby red metallic. Couldnít pass it up for $28777 ($8k off). Loving it so far. Comfortable, handles great, plenty fast enough for me and sounds incredible.
Great purchase. I would not be able to let that deal go either. Just keep an eye on the typewriter tick issue and don't let Ford tell you it's normal. Take it easy on the shifter as well.
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Old 03-23-2019, 09:38 AM   #23
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Great purchase. I would not be able to let that deal go either. Just keep an eye on the typewriter tick issue and don't let Ford tell you it's normal. Take it easy on the shifter as well.
IDK, with both engine and transmission issues common there's no way I'd take that deal considering you can also get 15% off remaining '18 Camaros, so $32kish for a base SS. I'd easily pay the extra $3k for a far better car.
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Old 03-23-2019, 09:46 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScaryFatKidGT View Post
I drove a Mini JCW Countryman that just left like a SUV like a RAV 4 or something, a WRX STI which I liked and left similar to the Camaro but with way better vision but 100hp off and less capable, an Alfa Romeo Giulia which the dealers all thought I was crazy wanting in RWD and a Alfa 4C which is a little hardcore gocart I really liked but they were pushing my budget, I avoided BMW due to their lack of steering feel. I wound up getting my SS 1LE and am very happy, not only was it cheaper than anything else but also way faster. One thing a mustang had better is vision. Only negatives of the Camaro are the trunk and the really imprecise buttons and switches inside.
IMO you dodged a bullet with the STi... I traded my '16 STi in for my Camaro and it's not even close in terms of what you get for your money.

The STi has a great AWD system which is amazing to drive on snow and dirt covered roads, but it also sucks the power and gas down. It does horrible on the highway, both power and fuel economy are simply poor. The car is rather slow, you'll struggle to keep up with V6 Camrys and Ecoboost Ford Escape SUVs. It can't carry much without the handling and fuel economy taking a huge hit.

And finally the engine is a ticking time bomb and the opposite of confidence inspiring. The car doesn't have adequate cooling and will overheat and make horrible smells and gurgling noises when driven hard, and it'll cut boost and timing but not throw a code so the dealer can't verify it.

It's a nice but old-fashioned and critically flawed AWD system and all else is absolute crap in that car. Subaru has made no effort to make this car significantly better over the years and as a result it's NOT much better than it was in 2004.
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Old 04-01-2019, 02:25 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cbr1100xx View Post
Caddie? No thanks.

Iím done anyway. Ended up with a Ď19 Mustang GT base 6spd, ruby red metallic. Couldnít pass it up for $28777 ($8k off). Loving it so far. Comfortable, handles great, plenty fast enough for me and sounds incredible.
The ATS-V is a beast

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveC113 View Post
IMO you dodged a bullet with the STi... I traded my '16 STi in for my Camaro and it's not even close in terms of what you get for your money.

The STi has a great AWD system which is amazing to drive on snow and dirt covered roads, but it also sucks the power and gas down. It does horrible on the highway, both power and fuel economy are simply poor. The car is rather slow, you'll struggle to keep up with V6 Camrys and Ecoboost Ford Escape SUVs. It can't carry much without the handling and fuel economy taking a huge hit.

And finally the engine is a ticking time bomb and the opposite of confidence inspiring. The car doesn't have adequate cooling and will overheat and make horrible smells and gurgling noises when driven hard, and it'll cut boost and timing but not throw a code so the dealer can't verify it.

It's a nice but old-fashioned and critically flawed AWD system and all else is absolute crap in that car. Subaru has made no effort to make this car significantly better over the years and as a result it's NOT much better than it was in 2004.
A great AWD system and a flawed one? I love the AWD system, it's basically the only thing left with 3 limited slips but not all electronic tq vectored and stuff. The engine is VERY old and hasn't been updated sense basically 2008. For me it was the price too, I got a great deal on my 1LE and it is a lot more car. Subaru also had an obsession with understeer, idk if it is to make the car handle well on loose surfaces or what.
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Old 04-06-2019, 11:39 PM   #26
JamesNoBrakes

 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScaryFatKidGT View Post
Subaru also had an obsession with understeer, idk if it is to make the car handle well on loose surfaces or what.
The engine is mounted in front of the front axle, of course it's going to understeer, and while you can attempt to tame it and tune it out by several methods, it's the proverbial polishing a turd, it'll always be better to have the engine in back of the front axle (or at least in between the wheels). When I had a WRX, it was "massive understeer followed by snap-oversteer" on loose/traction limited surfaces. The moment of inertia created by the engine in that location is arguably worse than just the understeer. The Evo was always lightyears ahead when it came to chassis balance and handling. The regular WRX isn't too bad on the gas, but the STI absolutely pounds it down and like said above, the engine hasn't seen an update in forever. Unfortunately, there are two huge negatives to Subaru. 1, they tend to let things go way way too far, like the old 4EAT transmission, it had no place in a WRX and they were still making it and putting it in there, it wasn't 1985 when they were doing this...How about that turbo lag? That thing that most manufacturers have eliminated by placing the turbo right near the exhaust valves, hot-V setups and the like..This list could go on and on, some of these things were finally addressed, but way way too late. 2, they often handicap the US market cars, where the JDM will get twin scroll and other tweaks, the absolute worst was when they imported the Impreza GT and called it a "WRX".
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