[arpad_m]

Originally Posted by cellsafemode

whether you think it's a camaro is irrelevant if chevy labels it one... they decide what is and isn't a camaro. If we did, some of us would have the same opinion about what got labeled a camaro in 2010+

i think the mach-e mustang is going to sell significantly better than the camaro currently is.

I think chevy would be hard pressed to not follow mach-e's lead.

edit: though the main difference is, i dont see ford not making the 2 door car form of the mustang - so there is some grounds to call the mach-e version not a real mustang, but in the case of chevy, option 1 is written there because it would exist in-place-of the 2 door car version - not along side it. there would be no other version to point to as the "real" one.

I think GM will just continue the theme they began with the Blazer whose interior is already very similar to the 6th gen. The name will be e-Blazer or Blazer EV or something similar. For the 2022 MY they have the Bolt EV and the Bolt EUV, so this would at least be in alignment.

[CamaroWinz]

This thread kinda meanders, but I think it's worth pointing out that if '22 is the last scheduled model year for the 6th Gen and Chevy had any intentions of a "7th Gen", it would already be well through the design phase at this point. There would be test mules, spy photos, leaked details, etc.

The lack of that kind of background noise more than suggests that the upcoming model year will be the last for the Camaro as we know it.

[Big Lebowski]

Originally Posted by shaffe

Hello neighbor haha!

I'll add to the covid comment, it's also added to the way/number of people that can successfully work from home now and thus might not need a car/multiple cars anymore. Hell my neighbor hasn't had to go into the office since March of last year. I'd be shocked if he put 500 miles on his car since last year

Good point!

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by GearheadSS

I think technology is definitely a factor. Technology can be expensive and there's a lot of it.

Most folks that bought them back then were buying their primary mode of transportation. Now, it seems like a lot folks that buy them aren't daily driving them or they have something else they can drive. You didn't have the luxury of a weekend car back then. Perhaps because people that are buying 1 car value the space and utility of an SUV over having a fun, fast car.

I don't know if I would say people are desensitized to cars due to the internet. Back then we all went to printed media for info and pics of cars and if you were a car person, you had ALL of the magazines. lol

This guy gets it ^ The whole segment is shrinking, but Mustang and Challenger less drastic than Camaro. Why, they are better at being cars

Originally Posted by cellsafemode

You can easily see why the niche pony car market is shrinking.

Cars all got much faster, people didn't get better at driving and roads got more crowded.

You no longer have a need to buy a 2 door pony car for fast driving because nearly all cars can go really fast. So absent of that performance issue, it's a lot harder to justify the other compromises.

end of story really.

but if discussing why camaro sells so much less than mustang/charger/challenger etc, i think you only need to look at what is unique about the camaro's situation. Chevy has the corvette in this spot for marketing and their soul. The other oem's, the cars in question are there. Not so for chevy and that translates to what the market sees.

i think the camaro has 3 possible fates.
1. it becomes a CUV.
2. it gets cancelled and corvette expands down a bit to carry the ex-v8-camaro market
3. Corvette expands up and leaves the 50k market entirely and becomes a super car only... leaving the camaro to take center stage in chevy
4. Chevy keeps the status quo

in order of likelihood i think.

3 will not happen. I hate being the negative guy, but the Camaro will never hold that place in the market. Why? Simply because the camaro needs the base model sales to survive. 60-70% of all camaros sold are the low end trims. Without those sales there is no business case for the Camaro to exist. There is no reason for GM to have 2 low volume sporty cars.

Originally Posted by CamaroWinz

This thread kinda meanders, but I think it's worth pointing out that if '22 is the last scheduled model year for the 6th Gen and Chevy had any intentions of a "7th Gen", it would already be well through the design phase at this point. There would be test mules, spy photos, leaked details, etc.

The lack of that kind of background noise more than suggests that the upcoming model year will be the last for the Camaro as we know it.

I think there was a rumor that 6th gen was soldiering on through 2026

[genxer]

Why would 3 preclude base cars? Especially if it has 2 or 3 hotrod platform mates? The Corvette is likely going to push upwards into Porsche money. The Camaro needs to be a car that exposes sophisticates' quills. Corvettes will lose the ability to cover both.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by genxer

Why would 3 preclude base cars? Especially if it has 2 or 3 hotrod platform mates? The Corvette is likely going to push upwards into Porsche money. The Camaro needs to be a car that exposes sophisticates' quills. Corvettes will lose the ability to cover both.

Simple. If the camaro is to fill the void left by corvette than it's focus becomes performance and a bit more upscale. Essentially what the 6th gen did and we see how that is working out. Camaro needs to be better on the bottom end of the spectrum to succeed, not better on the top end

Also camaro has already shared it's platform with 2 other vehicles. Their sales sucked also. Camaro was to be the volume unit to keep the lights on at the factory. Camaro needs volume, and volume comes from base models

There is also the fact that it is a Camaro and not a corvette. Me personally if I am ready to drop more than 70K on a vehicle, I am going Corvette and not even considering a camaro. I don't care how much more power, how much faster the camaro might be it's not getting my money. If a Corvette doesn't exist at that price point for me, I am going to look elsewhere, I am just not going to spend that kind of money on a Camaro(or Mustang or Challenger)

[Kemo Savy]

Originally Posted by MackSteelPrivateEye

The way things are now...the question should be ..America's Future.

Yes...Americas future indeed is in question.

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Norm, seriously, as I’ve said many times, they designed the Gen6 for the wants and needs of the “Camaro Faithful” a small group of about a dozen or so recognized by GM enthusiasts. It was not designed for broad appeal. From what I’ve heard it was never even cliniced. As I’ve said it would be the same as advertising LH baseball gloves to Right Handers. More awareness of a car with poor visibility, no trunk space and a limited rear seat won’t result in more sales, at least enough to justify the expense. Plus you have to at least admit anyone in the segment buying a Mustang or Challenger already knows about the Camaro. So advertising would be for people buying SUVs and convincing them to go 180 degrees different. And that is not we’re the market is trending.

Even if I accept that argument as sort-of working for the Camaro's case specifically . . . it doesn't explain the absence of advertising for mainstream cars such as the Malibu and the Fusion. Which goes right back to the only advertising people get to see is for SUVs and trucks.

Have you noticed that on Chevrolet's official website, the kinds of vehicles your cursor is closest to after selecting 'Vehicles' are the SUVs and the Trucks. No way is that by accident; it's subtly steering every online shopper to those kinds of vehicles.


Norm

[genxer]

Originally Posted by shaffe

Simple. If the camaro is to fill the void left by corvette than it's focus becomes performance and a bit more upscale. Essentially what the 6th gen did and we see how that is working out. Camaro needs to be better on the bottom end of the spectrum to succeed, not better on the top end

Also camaro has already shared it's platform with 2 other vehicles. Their sales sucked also. Camaro was to be the volume unit to keep the lights on at the factory. Camaro needs volume, and volume comes from base models

There is also the fact that it is a Camaro and not a corvette. Me personally if I am ready to drop more than 70K on a vehicle, I am going Corvette and not even considering a camaro. I don't care how much more power, how much faster the camaro might be it's not getting my money. If a Corvette doesn't exist at that price point for me, I am going to look elsewhere, I am just not going to spend that kind of money on a Camaro(or Mustang or Challenger)

I don't totally disagree. Maybe the sophisticated Caddy buyers and now Vette buyers don't match a more working-class appeal, was my point. A Camaro can get around $70k buyers without appealing to you.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by genxer

I don't totally disagree. Maybe the sophisticated Caddy buyers and now Vette buyers don't match a more working-class appeal, was my point. A Camaro can get around $70k buyers without appealing to you.

That's true as well. The problem is for the car to be sustainable they need to attract more of the 30K buyers than the 70K buyers. To do that it needs to be more appealing to the masses which may turn off those buyers who might have been in the Corvette marketplace

[cellsafemode]

Originally Posted by shaffe

That's true as well. The problem is for the car to be sustainable they need to attract more of the 30K buyers than the 70K buyers. To do that it needs to be more appealing to the masses which may turn off those buyers who might have been in the Corvette marketplace

ford seems to do fine marketing the mustang across the entire income band of car buyers.

Chevy f'd themselves by not adopting a similar approach with the corvette ...now they have two brands both arguably in the same "performance coupe" market where they have to say 1 is better than the other ...

That not being the favorite child thing gets communicated to buyers and turns them off.

it's why a niche under the shadow of corvette is just going to sell like garbage.

Which is why i think chevy will turn to a CUV and abandon those who dont transition over to their competitors .. it wont be a terribly large number of lost customers and likely even less of an issue when you consider the cost savings.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by cellsafemode

ford seems to do fine marketing the mustang across the entire income band of car buyers.

Chevy f'd themselves by not adopting a similar approach with the corvette ...now they have two brands both arguably in the same "performance coupe" market where they have to say 1 is better than the other ...

That not being the favorite child thing gets communicated to buyers and turns them off.

it's why a niche under the shadow of corvette is just going to sell like garbage.

Which is why i think chevy will turn to a CUV and abandon those who dont transition over to their competitors .. it wont be a terribly large number of lost customers and likely even less of an issue when you consider the cost savings.

Pretty much exactly like you said, Ford only had the Mustang that filled every void. GM had both Camaro and Corvette which kind of put them in a bad spot

[Number 3]

The Camaro was always in 2nd chair compared to the Corvette. This place went ape poop when GM used the Corvette engines in the Camaro. No more little brother!!!

Now Corvette has clearly gone well beyond and GM won’t be chasing Corvette with the Camaro. I love all the posts here and elsewhere showing a mid-engine Camaro. LOL that’s exactly what GM needs is two low volume mid-engine cars. But so many here were so happy to be on par with big brother. Just not going to ever happen again.

GM hasn’t advertised Corvette ins at least 30 years other than the ones they did at launch for C5 and 6. I cant recall anything for C7 and C8 had so much free pub it wasn’t needed.

GM has a big choice to make with the Camaro and the Camaro name. Time will tell.

[Petrol Head]

I remember back around 2006/07, after the prototype 5th gen Camaro toured all the autoshows around the country and generated huge buzz, and at the time GM had been sort of non-committal about putting it into production in all the car magazine articles..... Rick Wagoner was asked about it and he said something to the effect of "yes we are bringing back the Camaro for sure, we're not brain dead"

When was the last time at an autoshow did you see GM put the Camaro on a turnstyle and make it one of the centerpieces of the Chevy display?