[merlin803]

Originally Posted by Thor142

Part of the issue is we don't know what Gen 6 cost GM so we have no idea what the profit margin is or what percentage of R&D was camaro specific in the parts bin that needs to be amortized by Camaro 6.
All we really know is that for some reason which is logically price people don't want it.

I wouldn't say people don't want it, most people don't even know about it, or at least dont know it is a whole new car.

[fzr100098]

Originally Posted by merlin803

I wouldn't say people don't want it, most people don't even know about it, or at least dont know it is a whole new car.

I think that's part of it - many people I talk to didn't even know there is a new Camaro, or know anything about it. Unless you read the MT comparison to the M4 (which is what sold me, plus the test drive of course) you probably wouldn't get that excited about the car

[merlin803]

Originally Posted by fzr100098

I think that's part of it - many people I talk to didn't even know there is a new Camaro, or know anything about it. Unless you read the R&T comparison to the M4 (which is what sold me, plus the test drive of course) you probably wouldn't get that excited about the car

I know. None of my family or coworkers knew anything about it. How would they if they weren't car enthusiasts?

That is part of the reason that I don't concern myself with sales numbers, it doesn't seem like GM has any urgency to advertise it, so why should I worry about it?

[Raven87]

The core of this whole thread (which I love to read each month) is about sales NUMBERS and not profit comparisons between the manufacturers.

Some have said that GM is happy with the overall Camaro/Company profit and thus doesn't care what the numbers are - which very well may be true.

Others such as me have said that GM was anticipating selling much more than they did and are really just keeping mum about profit, citing that the new car is selling for $3700 more on an average than a Gen 5. They are NOT saying that is all profit but we would be safe to assume at least some of it is. How much exactly is anyone's guess but I would bet that it would not be much more than ~10% of the increase in price. That's a lot of money on 60000 cars yes. But is it enough? We do not know.

But the bottom line is that yes sales numbers ARE dismally down. GM put on a third shift back in April anticipating an 'expected increase in demand for the Camaro'. Demand has actually fallen, not increased. This cannot have been planned for. And to see 0% Interest incentives, 15% off MSRP, etc and who knows what else is coming does not say that GM is happy with the sales to date.

So read between the lines and interpret it as you wish. I'm not saying the sky is falling in any way. It's just disappointing to see the outstanding 6th Gen Camaro lagging in sales.

[Thor142]

Originally Posted by merlin803

I wouldn't say people don't want it, most people don't even know about it, or at least dont know it is a whole new car.

I honestly keep forgetting about that and it's a good point.

[Techn9cian805]

Originally Posted by Raven87

The core of this whole thread (which I love to read each month) is about sales NUMBERS and not profit comparisons between the manufacturers.

Some have said that GM is happy with the overall Camaro/Company profit and thus doesn't care what the numbers are - which very well may be true.

Others such as me have said that GM was anticipating selling much more than they did and are really just keeping mum about profit, citing that the new car is selling for $3700 more on an average than a Gen 5. They are NOT saying that is all profit but we would be safe to assume at least some of it is. How much exactly is anyone's guess but I would bet that it would not be much more than ~10% of the increase in price. That's a lot of money on 60000 cars yes. But is it enough? We do not know.

But the bottom line is that yes sales numbers ARE dismally down. GM put on a third shift back in April anticipating an 'expected increase in demand for the Camaro'. Demand has actually fallen, not increased. This cannot have been planned for. And to see 0% Interest incentives, 15% off MSRP, etc and who knows what else is coming does not say that GM is happy with the sales to date.

So read between the lines and interpret it as you wish. I'm not saying the sky is falling in any way. It's just disappointing to see the outstanding 6th Gen Camaro lagging in sales.

90% agreed.

I would like to see more gen6 on the road, but with the bad start with QC problems, high price tags with little to no incentives to make the price appear justifiable from the start, and the ultra-conservative evolutionary design, I cant say I am surprised. no amount of praise from reviewers and owners will change that.

[fzr100098]

Originally Posted by Raven87

It's just disappointing to see the outstanding 6th Gen Camaro lagging in sales.

But it's not really surprising, the SS in particular is a niche audience. Most people spending $45k+ go for a "prestige" brand (BMW, Audi, etc), not a Camaro. Ford fans pile into the Mustang and budget minded people buy Hondas, Hyundais, and Toyotas. If anything the sports car market seems to be shrinking

[Thor142]

Originally Posted by Raven87

The core of this whole thread (which I love to read each month) is about sales NUMBERS and not profit comparisons between the manufacturers.

Some have said that GM is happy with the overall Camaro/Company profit and thus doesn't care what the numbers are - which very well may be true.

Others such as me have said that GM was anticipating selling much more than they did and are really just keeping mum about profit, citing that the new car is selling for $3700 more on an average than a Gen 5. They are NOT saying that is all profit but we would be safe to assume at least some of it is. How much exactly is anyone's guess but I would bet that it would not be much more than ~10% of the increase in price. That's a lot of money on 60000 cars yes. But is it enough? We do not know.

But the bottom line is that yes sales numbers ARE dismally down. GM put on a third shift back in April anticipating an 'expected increase in demand for the Camaro'. Demand has actually fallen, not increased. This cannot have been planned for. And to see 0% Interest incentives, 15% off MSRP, etc and who knows what else is coming does not say that GM is happy with the sales to date.

So read between the lines and interpret it as you wish. I'm not saying the sky is falling in any way. It's just disappointing to see the outstanding 6th Gen Camaro lagging in sales.

I'm almost positive having been in manufacturing and sales a long time that GM could have held the '15 price on the Gen 6 and made money. If someone can prove me wrong with real facts and not just quoting MSRP of different components I would really like to see it.
Another good question that's brought up is complete lack of advertising. Love the transformers or hate 'em they generated a ton of buzz for the re-boot of the Camaro. Why is GM not putting any effort into selling this car?

I also love this thread every month.

As much as I'm bitching about the price I do love the car, I can afford it without any financial strain. A $45,000 (est)1LE just really turns me off.

[merlin803]

Originally Posted by Raven87

The core of this whole thread (which I love to read each month) is about sales NUMBERS and not profit comparisons between the manufacturers.

Some have said that GM is happy with the overall Camaro/Company profit and thus doesn't care what the numbers are - which very well may be true.

Others such as me have said that GM was anticipating selling much more than they did and are really just keeping mum about profit, citing that the new car is selling for $3700 more on an average than a Gen 5. They are NOT saying that is all profit but we would be safe to assume at least some of it is. How much exactly is anyone's guess but I would bet that it would not be much more than ~10% of the increase in price. That's a lot of money on 60000 cars yes. But is it enough? We do not know.

But the bottom line is that yes sales numbers ARE dismally down. GM put on a third shift back in April anticipating an 'expected increase in demand for the Camaro'. Demand has actually fallen, not increased. This cannot have been planned for. And to see 0% Interest incentives, 15% off MSRP, etc and who knows what else is coming does not say that GM is happy with the sales to date.

So read between the lines and interpret it as you wish. I'm not saying the sky is falling in any way. It's just disappointing to see the outstanding 6th Gen Camaro lagging in sales.

But I assume that you can agree that GM has seemingly gone out of their way to not advertise the gen 6?

With that being the case, the decision to cut fleet sales, the fact that many die hard camaro fans have a 5th gen that they are still paying for and the decision to raise prices....I don't know why anyone would logically think that the sales would be MORE than the last couple of years.

And I have to think that GM took all of this into account, the question is, what are the sales numbers that they did expect? Who knows?

[Raven87]

Originally Posted by merlin803

But I assume that you can agree that GM has seemingly gone out of their way to not advertise the gen 6?

With that being the case, the decision to cut fleet sales, the fact that many die hard camaro fans have a 5th gen that they are still paying for and the decision to raise prices....I don't know why anyone would logically think that the sales would be MORE than the last couple of years.

And I have to think that GM took all of this into account, the question is, what are the sales numbers that they did expect? Who knows?

Oh, I definitely agree that the lack of advertising/promoting of the 6G car is really beyond comprehension (and I have said as much in about each of these monthly threads).

But who knows GM's reason for not advertising the Camaro? Really, I see very little GM product being advertised other than an occasional Buick commercial. I can't tell you the last time I saw anything for the Corvette or the Camaro but I do see some outstanding commercials for the Challenger and the Mustang.

Advertising HAS to help. Generate excitement, get the customer into the showroom, and sell them SOMETHING. If they don't come in, they are not going to buy.

It is really impossible to understand.

[JLSuperfly]

This thread is 34 pages already.
Anyone got the Cliff Notes?

[Posaune]

Originally Posted by JLSuperfly

This thread is 34 pages already.
Anyone got the Cliff Notes?

Camaro sales are fine, they intended to sell 30% less.

6th Gen Camaro up to 4+ months of inventory on the lots.

GM is avoiding fleet sales, that is why sales are off.

5th gen fleet sales were in the mid high teens, 6th gen fleet sales are around 8-10%.

Camaro looks good, Camaro is ugly

Mustang is ugly

People don't know the 6th gen is all new.

etc, etc, etc...

[SpeedIsLife]

Originally Posted by Posaune

Camaro sales are fine, they intended to sell 30% less.

6th Gen Camaro up to 4+ months of inventory on the lots.

GM is avoiding fleet sales, that is why sales are off.

5th gen fleet sales were in the mid high teens, 6th gen fleet sales are around 8-10%.

Camaro looks good, Camaro is ugly

Mustang is ugly

People don't know the 6th gen is all new.

etc, etc, etc...

Just copy this for next month

[Thor142]

Originally Posted by SpeedIsLife

Just copy this for next month

Next month orders will be up by 50%
People will be ordering $70,000 ZL1's and $50,000 1LE's in droves and save us from another "why is Camaro sucking in sales" thread.